In Breeding, Line Breeding, and Out Breeding

Discussion in 'The Breeding Ground' started by Lizmo, Mar 14, 2007.

  1. Lizmo

    Lizmo Water Junkie

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    What are your thoughts on this?

    I have done some research on this, but I am not sure which one is ethical.
     
  2. colliewog

    colliewog Collies&Terriers, Oh My!

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    All are ethical if done properly and with much research and deliberation. Outcrossing doesn't guarantee freedom from problems any more than inbreeding/line breeding guarantees there will be problems.
     
  3. RD

    RD Are you dead yet?

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    Any can be ethical depending on the breed in question and the individuals that are to be bred. In Border Collies, a lot of inbreeding is frowned upon simply because nearly everyone wants to keep the gene pool relatively diverse. However, linebreeding (still "doubling up" or more on certain dogs, but not breeding close relatives) is quite common. Outcrossing to entirely different lines is the most common type of breeding done in working Border Collies, it seems. Eve is from an outcross breeding.
     
  4. dogsarebetter

    dogsarebetter EVIL SHELTIES!!!!

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    ethical IMO
     
  5. MafiaPrincess

    MafiaPrincess Obvious trollsare Obvious

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    It's ethical if you know your dogs. It's pretty moronic if you don't know your dogs or their pedigrees though.
     
  6. Spiritus

    Spiritus New Member

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    All three have their place. :)
     
  7. Lizmo

    Lizmo Water Junkie

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    Okay Thanks guys :)
     
  8. Miakoda

    Miakoda New Member

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    Great post! :hail:
     
  9. IliamnasQuest

    IliamnasQuest Loves off-leash training!

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    I've looked into this quite a bit with my interest in possibly breeding my chow (someday .. maybe .. *L*). Her pedigree has some linebreeding in it and I've found that most of the big breeders do some linebreeding in order to "set" their lines. When you look at a certain dog and it has characteristics that make it pretty obvious it comes from a particular breeder, that's generally done with some judicious linebreeding. Hopefully those traits are GOOD ones.

    Linebreeding is actually, in human comparisons, inbreeding. There are no set-in-stone definitions of linebreeding. One breeder summed it up this way: "If it works, it's linebreeding. If it doesn't, it's inbreeding". But I think most breeders consider it inbreeding when you breed half siblings, or father to daughter. Linebreedings would be a bit farther out, like uncle to niece.

    All of it has its place, and done right can really emphasize a line. Regardless of what you're doing, you should really know your dog's pedigree and what you're breeding to (especially with health). I see line/inbreeding done by backyard breeder types and there's often no consideration of health in those. They simply breed what's available often in order to try to get dogs with a popular trait (in chows, creams seem to be the pet owner's color of choice and I've come across a number of breeders who are simply trying to supply creams - and ignoring other issues, like elbow and hip dysplasia and eye problems).

    Melanie and the gang in Alaska
     
  10. wolfsoul

    wolfsoul I Love My Belgian

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    All of them can be a blessing or a curse -- all depends on if you know what you're doing. Personally I prefer linebreeding on a good line.
    Most of the outcrosses I've experienced have not been good ones. A good amount of linebreeding will create cookie-cutter type pups. An outcross of two lines can pick up some wild cards in the background and give you something you weren't expecting. That's why lines have to be researched carefully. I did not know lines very well when I did my first breeding and I regret it. I am now very well-learned and have chosen another outcross for my next breeding. I'm very excited about this one.
    I would do an inbreeding on a dog with an excellent temperament. That would be my one and only reason for an inbreeding or close linebreeding. Many people will do it to perfect conformation, but conformation is not my main priority -- temperament and health are. I'm expecting my next litter to be a very nice one and I wouldn't be surprised if I did something close.
     
  11. bubbatd

    bubbatd Moderator

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    I've personally have never liked in breeding . You may get some outstanding pups and some absolute duds . Line breeding is good when you know what you're doing .
     
  12. adoptashelterpettoday

    adoptashelterpettoday New Member

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    Ditto from me. It may be stupid but I would never buy a dog who has been inbred or line bred. I am sure the breeders know what they are doing but it is a personal preference.

    Although he came from an idiot BYB who knew NOTHING of breeding dogs, I have an inbred epileptic Dalmatian.

    I will be the first to admit I know nothing about breeding either, but I dont see why you would inbreed any dogs, seems like they are more likely to develop genetic defects, kind of like people who marry their cousin & have kids.

    Line breeding is a bit different because (if I understand) breeders breed farther down the line. I wouldnt buy anything but an out bred dog with good lines on both sides.
     
  13. showpug

    showpug New Member

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    In-breeeding, line-breeding and outcrossing all have their place and their importance in well thought out breeding programs.

    Breeders who have worked very hard to develop a line of healthy dogs can be weary of outcrossing due to the fact that you are introducing new genetics into the gene pool and therefor you have potential for new health problems to be introduced that you worked so hard as a breeder to breed out of your line.

    This concept can work against you as well. If you aren't careful, don't know the pedigrees and health behind the dogs you are breeding then line-breeding can "lock" in certain genetic health problems and poor structural traits etc.

    So, line-breeding and in-breeding can either make or break your breeding program. It can either preserve health and desired traits, or it can destroy them. Outcrossing can be disasterous as well because you are introducing more genes that have potential to carry genetic health problems and undesired traits of neither parent, but a distant ancestor.

    I think I would trust a line-bred dog from a long time, knowledgeable breeder more than I would a random outcross. With a line-breeding, you know what you are working with and what to expect from the puppies. Some of the healthiest, sound dogs I know come from a long time responsible line-breeding program.
     
  14. bubbatd

    bubbatd Moderator

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    I did line breeding , but only with my mentor's recommendation ...... never close and always two generations back .
     
  15. planet molosser

    planet molosser CASSA

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    Personally I am for outcrossing and linebreeding ( only on dogs you yourself have created thus knowing pros and cons)

    I will NEVER inbreed ( full bro X Sis, Sire to kid, dam to kid).

    Closest I will go is Grandsire to grand kid from 3 generations of outcrosses.

    Mind you I breed for working ability thus setting type is NOT a concern for me.
     

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