I'm Going to Breed Roxy Mae

showpug

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#42
Have to second what Doberluv said...I have had mixes myself, but the idea of breeding a mix on purpose is very irresponsible in my opinion. I can understand the allergy concept as far as service dogs, but I am sure purebred poodles could have done the service work without being mixed with something else. I just come from a different frame of mind I guess. I believe breed the best only to the best and the rest is history. If more people were MORE CAREFUL we would not have hundreds of dying dogs each day. Not everyone needs to or should breed their dog :mad:
 

Ash47

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#43
Roxy does have an appledome. Her snout is just a little long. And if anyone would care to read the "actual" standard of a Chihuahua and what the faults are, here it is... http://www.akc.org/breeds/chihuahua/index.cfm Roxy Mae fits this description perfectly. :)

Everyone thinks they know it all. I don't claim to, but I do know what I am getting myself into and I would not breed Roxy if she weren't a PERFECT example of her breed.
 
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#44
Some of the better Fila breeders actually find that two 'perfect' examples don't give the best pups. Often, at least with Filas, you get a much better litter of pups if you take two dogs who may have some extreme characteristics on opposite ends of the scale to achieve balanced pups. You may get one or two that have more of one parent's characteristics than the other, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing, as different owners are often looking for an emphasis on a particular breed characteristic.

I would think, if Roxy Mae's snoot is a little long, you can look at sires who might have snouts that are a little on the short side, assuming there aren't any health issues that follow the shorter snouted Chihuahuas.

I think you've got a good plan mapped out, Pro, and working right there with a vet certainly is a plus! Grammy (Bubbatd) and Pits are great resources, too. Both have so much experience with breeding ethically and successfully. I know I'm going to be depending on them a great deal with it's time for Shiva and Kharma to have a litter - although I'm dreading it! Charley's choice. If it were my call, I would consider a litter out of Kharma, but not Shiva, as Kharma is a classic working Fila and is a beautiful example of a Fila from, among others, the Jaguara line. I love Shiva, and she's a beautiful creature, but the show line on her father's side has diluted her temperament and her body type isn't as correct as Kharma's. But Charley prefers Shiva.
 

paramount

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#45
Roxy Mae is definetely not pocket Chi! She is a healthy 6 pounds. And yes, she is a shorthair. I prefer them. She is a deerhead. She still has the rounded off forehead, but her snout is a little longer.
Roxy does have an appledome. Her snout is just a little long
I think the only reason you're catching further flack on the standard issue is that you're confusing people with different statements. It sounds like you are set on breeding your dog and are willing to take the financial and personal risks of breeding, so good luck.
 

showpug

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#46
No dog is perfect, not even top show dogs. What you look for when you breed is what Renee said...when your dog is weak in an area you find a stud that is strong in that area and hope for balance in the puppies. We can not assume our dogs are perfect. In fact, it's better to fully acknowledge where they are weak so we can properly seek out the appropriate stud. To me, breeding dogs is a fine art. All breeders strive for perfection, but few top breeders ever achieve it. Someday I will breed a litter, but only with dogs that I have shown to their championship in conformation...and that is just the beginning. There will be a whole array of other factors that will help me in my final decision to breed or not to breed.
 

bubbatd

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#47
Since Roxy's only 9 months old, she's got a few months to go before she reaches maturity . Then you can decide if she's worthy of breeding...You wouldn't want to breed her until she's about 2 , so you have time to talk to other Chi breeders for their advise.
 

Love4Pits

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#48
paramount said:
I think the only reason you're catching further flack on the standard issue is that you're confusing people with different statements. It sounds like you are set on breeding your dog and are willing to take the financial and personal risks of breeding, so good luck.
You obviousely do not know Pro too well I am a breeder myself and i very responsible professional breeder and everything she has said i have found fine.She does know what she's doing and I doubt she would take those risks she loves her dogs far to much! i know this just from knowing her from the forums. Anyways just saying what I know
 
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#49
Doberluv said:
It doesn't make ANY sense to breed mixed breeds or purebreds that don't exemplify the standard of the breed or meet genetic health and other tests. There are plenty of mixed breeds already stacked up in shelters who are being killed for a lack of a family to love and care for them. It's deplorable to purposely breed mixed breed dogs.
In general I agree, but I think that the show world has colored the conversation. Even non-doggy people now believe it's wrong to breed mutts and the idea that only show-worthy purebreds should be mated is catching on. But the breed clubs that do so much rescue work operate under a self-serving assumption that the AKC standards are worthy, and I disagree. Some breed issues - the disfiguring faces of English Bulldogs and the impossible coats of American Cockers being obvious examples - make me wonder if the show world is even sane. They're producing pet puppies by the millions every year, along with their show puppies, and the same standards that they're breeding for are in many cases making the dogs harder to care for and own. Don't they have any responsibility to consider that issue? More to the point, doesn't their registry? The AKC spent years popularizing the ownership of purebred dogs, selling the idea of what an advantage it would be to know exactly what you were getting with a puppy, and now they claim they're just a registry, no blood on their hands?
 

paramount

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#51
The argument for a breed standard is not simply for aesthetics. It is to preseve and better the breed as a whole. I agree that the show world is exaggerating problems in some breeds (sloping back in GSDs, wrinkled faces in bulldogs, etc.), however that is an internal issue within the breed. Those involved with the breed need to evaluate their standards and what people are breeding towards.

Nonetheless, look at some of the arguments for breeding a crossbreed instead of a purebred (These are ones I have personally heard).

-I wanted another dog like X.
-I think dog X is cute and dog Y is cute, therefore puppy Z will be the best mix.
-There is enough space for registered and unregistered dogs.
-Mixed breeds are more desirable around here.
-Purebreds are not as healthy.
 

Doberluv

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#52
Everyone thinks they know it all. I don't claim to, but I do know what I am getting myself into and I would not breed Roxy if she weren't a PERFECT example of her breed.

I'm curious: I heard there where two types of heads for chihuahua's. What type is RoxyMae?
I was responding to that statement about two types of heads. There is one description of one head in the standard.

No dog is perfect, not even top show dogs.
Exactly. And if two dogs are bred, but can't improve on the last generation, which should be close to the cream of the crop, then they shouldn't be bred. I don't know your dog and I wouldn't be able to judge it. Only certain experts could. And one can't tell how the dog will mature or develop until later. Also, there are genetic faults or health issues that don't show up until around 2yrs. No dog should be bred until at least 2 yrs old, better, a little older.

I hope everything is in place and goes well for you.
 
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#53
The argument for a breed standard is not simply for aesthetics. It is to preseve and better the breed as a whole. I agree that the show world is exaggerating problems in some breeds (sloping back in GSDs, wrinkled faces in bulldogs, etc.), however that is an internal issue within the breed. Those involved with the breed need to evaluate their standards and what people are breeding towards.
One of the worst things I hold the AKC responsible for is the sacrifice of working abilities on some pretty weird aesthetic standards. WHAT are those rear ends on German Shepherds all about anyway? And they want to make "acceptable" generic, placid pets for everyone who likes the way a dog looks out of breeds that are not placid pets nor appropriate for just any owner or circumstance.
 

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#54
Pro47 said:
Roxy does have an appledome. Her snout is just a little long. And if anyone would care to read the "actual" standard of a Chihuahua and what the faults are, here it is... http://www.akc.org/breeds/chihuahua/index.cfm Roxy Mae fits this description perfectly.

Everyone thinks they know it all. I don't claim to, but I do know what I am getting myself into and I would not breed Roxy if she weren't a PERFECT example of her breed.
Ok I was just wondering. The website was also very helpful! I didn't know there was a long haired chihuahua :eek: lol :p
Good luck with the breeding and keep us updated on Roxy Mae's growth. :)
 

Ash47

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#55
Thank you L4P. You're such a sweety. Also Renee, thanks for taking up for me. I am not in this for money. As I have said before, most puppies will be going to family for free. Also, Roxy does have an apple dome. That means her forehead and the occipital near her neck round out. Deerhead means the snout is a little longer than others. This is not a disqualification. Some have long snouts others have extremely short ones. I am not contradicting myself. If everyone knew the terms I am talking about instead of looking for everything wrong, then this conversation wouldn't be headed this direction. But it seems as though most of you are beginning to see that I am in this for nothing but the breed. I will more than likely not get any money paid to me. Even if I did, I wouldn't break even. I am losing out on this. But it's a loss I am willing to take to help out one of my favorite breeds. ;)
 

Brattina88

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#56
Renee750il said:
One of the worst things I hold the AKC responsible for is the sacrifice of working abilities on some pretty weird aesthetic standards. WHAT are those rear ends on German Shepherds all about anyway? And they want to make "acceptable" generic, placid pets for everyone who likes the way a dog looks out of breeds that are not placid pets nor appropriate for just any owner or circumstance.
No doubt... And to the previous post about American Cocker's coats I just wanted to add;
Think about what they were orignally bred for, and now picture a show dog now. Obviously hunting dogs don't have the full 'show' coat, but all Maddie has is a short skirt and I have the hardest time keeping twigs, leaves, burrs ect out of her hair and all we do is take hikes through the woos (which she loves to do). And her hair isn't as 'cottony' as other cocker's I've put my hands on that suposidly had points toward their championship.
It isn't practicle at all. Its stricktly for looks, yes?
Anyways
Good Luck Pro47, I hope all goes well for you and your chi, do keep us updated!
 
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#57
I personally don't like the "standard" AKC's set for golden's, these days. They seem to be so short, squat and almost white with feathers like a cocker. Whatever happened to the big bold red ones? Those are my favs...
 

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#58
if you ask me, I don't believe in AKC. There's so many people out there that just buy papers and you'll probably end up with a dog that is not even AKC or show quality.
 

showpug

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#59
I agree that there is a lot lacking within AKC when it comes to preserving the conformation of certain breeds that allows them to do their job etc. I do however hold the breed clubs more responsbile as they are the ones that create the standard for their breed, not AKC. AKC approves the standard. I would think that the most diligent owners of a breed, the breed club would prevent the massacre...such as that of the German Shepherd. I blame the breed clubs before I blame AKC on that one.

Oh, and no one ever said that AKC papers guarantee quality. The best way to explain papers is like a dog's social security number...and yes, sometimes they are fake.

Next, the Chi is a toy breed. The purpose of the dog is aesthetic. They don't have a purpose historically other than being a loving companion and looking a certain way. This is why I think it is important to at least show your toy breed to a qualified judge before breeding. They have the experience of many years of hard work. I think it is a respect issue and necessary for the future of the breed. What if we all just bred our dog sbecause in our "opinion" they fit the standard. What if their was nothing to test our ability to interpret the standard against. Could you imagine what would happen to the way certain breeds look. It would all be based on personal preference rather than the way it is suppose to be. That is the whole purpose of the dog show, to keep us on track for breeding dogs the way they are suppose to be. I am not saying that all dogs that are going to be bred should have a conformation championship, but I certainly think it is important for toy breeds...because part of their purpose is that, beauty. In fact, I think if a dog is bred it should have some form of a title to help better the pedigree and future generations. The dog should be proven in some avenue. Otherwise, it is only our opinion that decided whether we should or shouldn't breed, and I don't know about you, but we all think our dogs are the most beautiful dogs in the world, but that does not make it breed quality. :)
 

Babyblue5290

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#60
I was watching a show that said that some toy breeds where used to keep the fleas off the people. What a wonderful job ;)

Anyways, Pro I wish you luck with finding a suitible mate and Roxy has a problem free pregnancy. I think your a really resposible person and I know you have the breeds, and Roxy's, best interest in heart :)
 

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