I feel guilty and... mean.

Discussion in 'Puppy Forum' started by .Alice., Nov 4, 2006.

  1. .Alice.

    .Alice. New Member

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    We are getting a border collie pup in about 4 weeks, and I'm feeling a bit guilty. As I'm currently still at school, the pup may have to spend alot of the time in her crate and I'm not sure if that's mean. I mean, there will be someone at home, my dad works from home and can take her out for maybe an hour at midday to feed her, but this is the routine it would have to be...

    Up at 6.30 - outside
    Play in between here, maybe outside for a little quick socialisation
    Fed a 8.00 - outside again
    8.25 - Outside again and into crate
    11.30 Outside
    Time in between - Play in kitchen but alone...
    12.15 - Fed
    12.30 - Outside and back in crate
    3.30 - Out of crate
    6.30 - Fed
    10.30 - Bed

    I'm home at 3.30, and so she will have me around then. Does that seem ok? It's only for the first 3 weeks of her time here, then I'll be off over christmas.

    I just feel a bit like she's in her crate ALOT.
     
  2. juliefurry

    juliefurry Rusty but Trusty

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    After your break will she be crated agian similar to this schedule? It doesn't sound unfair to me but I'm no expert. As long as someone is there to let her out during the day while you are gone that is good. An 8 week old puppy should only be expected to hold their bladder for 3 hours at the most. Is your dad understanding to the fact that there most likely will be accidents and he will have to spend the time cleaning her crate and her if neccasary? I Think the schedule is ok though I don't see a problem with it.
     
  3. Melissa_W

    Melissa_W New Member

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    I think that schedule is fine. Especially since you will be around all the time on breaks from school. It's only 7 hours with a break in the middle. Many people have to work 8-9 hours a day. As she gets older and is housetrained, you can start leaving her in a doggie proof room.
     
  4. tara

    tara New Member

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    This sounds ok to me. It's pretty much the exact same schedule I had for my dog when he was a pup and he did well with it. I got him on a saturday, and when it came time for monday, to go to school, I was almost crying because I was thinking "my poor puppy is going to be left alone for so long! He's gonna hate me!" and I thought it was very unfair to him, but everything worked out fine. Your pup should be okay with this too! Good luck with your new dog.
     
  5. bubbatd

    bubbatd Moderator

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    Can you set up a penned play area and put the crate in there and leave door open ?
     
  6. .Alice.

    .Alice. New Member

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    That's not really a possibility, as the crate will be in my room and there is just no space. I suppose we could try though, might be able to fine somewere...

    She will probably only be crated in the afternoon once we are back at school, as long as we arn't doing to bad at housetraining.
     
  7. Herschel

    Herschel New Member

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    Technically, that sounds fine. The dog will be able to hold its bladder for 3 hours at a time so that won't be an issue.

    However, are you comfortable leaving a very young puppy alone for 6 hours (or more) during the day (what if you go somewhere in the evening and you can't take the pup)? We had similar schedules when we first got our puppy and we're still battling the guilt of leaving him alone so much. He can hold is bladder 10 hours or more and same with his bowels, so that isn't an issue--but we just hate leaving him alone. We've pretty much ended up dedicating our weekends/evenings to him so we can make sure he stays happy.

    Border Collies are an incredibly demanding breed. As a puppy, your dog will probably sleep a lot and have a lot of down time so you should be fine. However, as your dog grows he will start to show his true personality. Do you know what level of drive this BC will have? Companion? Active? Working?

    There is really no way for you to tell--but if your dog has a working drive, you are going to be in for a huge surprise. Your dog will put the tasmanian devil to shame--any second away and the dog will find something with which to "occupy itself". That means shredding, destroying, nipping, etc.

    Border Collies are great dogs and can be extremely intelligent. They can also have a mind for themselves and disobey all of the commands you use. Please start training your dog early on, but also make sure to socialize as much as possible. Border Collies are notorious for developing aggression issues when they are under socialized.

    Good luck!
     
  8. Doberluv

    Doberluv Active Member

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    Honestly, I wouldn't be comfortable leaving a puppy that long all by himself in a little box with no one around, no stimulation other than a few toys. That's a lot of hours. I know a lot of people do. I just would have a hard time with it. Herschel is right. A Border Collie especially is not a dog to be boxed in for hours and hours. They are not meant to be mere pets. They're a serious working breed with intense energy and drives that need an outlet for those drives. He shouldn't be inside of 4 walls, all squished up for 6 hours. I'm sorry. I know you have a dilema, but that's just the way I feel about it. I mean...picture yourself in a similar situation. How frustrating would that be to be in neurosis and behavior problems in a dog like that. What do you have a Border Collie for? Is this a pet or a working dog?
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2006
  9. .Alice.

    .Alice. New Member

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    We plan on doing dog sports such as agility with her, and do obediance classes.

    We could have her downstairs in the kitchen/dining room/conservatory for some of the time, that might work.

    So maybe she could be crated in the morning, and then after her midday feed not go back to the crate, instead stay in the downstairs bit. It's all wooden floors, so accidents don't really matter.

    This is why I felt mean, I understand as a border collie she needs to be given something to do or will find it herself!

    Another option I suppose is letting her play outside, but I doubt the weather will be good enough to let a young puppy go out.

    Thanks for the help and helping realise that crating throughout the day is just not an option. I reall appreciate it. :D
     
  10. whatszmatter

    whatszmatter Guest

    hmmm, a high drive dog, crated and kept safe from itself and the rest of the house or left to its own devices in the downstairs??? I think i'll go with the crate myself. It isn't ideal to have to spend that much time in a crate, but as long as you're doing other things and keeping its mind active during those times you shouldn't have any problems.

    I have a job that keeps me out of the house 4 days a week and I get to go home at noon for an hour total on those days and then the puppy or dog would go back in the crate till I got home. and they are working dogs. If I wasn't home to keep their minds engaged, i'm not leaving them up to their own minds to find what fun they can have in the house.

    In the past, I'd let some of the young dogs or older dogs out in the house, and things were just fine, until once every 4-6 months I'd come home and find a broken window, a book case over turned, a piece of carpt torn up, just for fun, etc. Who knows why they did it, it rarely happened, but replacing windows will steer you towards crating your dog in a hurry.

    If you need to crate, then you better be sure to keep the dog active and engaged when you are around. You shouldn't have any troubles.
     
  11. Doberluv

    Doberluv Active Member

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    Yes, I definitely wouldn't leave her loose in an area where she could hurt herself or get into something.....because she will. Outside, unattended....no good. What about an X pen? They're a little bigger and they can see out. The pup can run around a little bit....sort of.

    I'm sorry about my opinion. It isn't very helpful, is it. I just am a softie I guess when it comes to puppies.

    Agility sounds great. That's a really fun thing to do and BCs are soooooo good at it.
     
  12. .Alice.

    .Alice. New Member

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    Not it is! I don't want to do something that might hurt the pup (such as letting her loose, stupid idea :p ) I realy appreciate the help, honestly.

    Well, once she has had her second set of jabs, she will be coming with me when I'm walking my other dog, but I'll be carrying her. I know the dogs that we come across when walking my dog, and know the ones that would be a good experience for her to be socialised with. Our breeder said it's best not to let her walk long distances up to about six motnhs, simply because of our intentions to do agility and the risk of hurting her hips etc...

    If we could find some sort of play pen type thing, I could certainly have that in the dining room/kitchen. My dad is in there alot doing cooking, ironing etc... (proper house husband :D ) So I'd imagine that would be a bit more interesting for her.

    Our breeder already said we should start training straight away, to take her mind of the lack of littermates and mum in the first few days she's with us. The breeder also said that without something to keep her mind occupied, she will find something else to do i.e. destroy stuff!

    Socialisation is high up on the list. We live close to a main road and across the road from a fairly busy shop, so my plan is to take her outside (in my arms) for maybe 10 minutes at a time, and let people say hello etc...

    And Yes, I'm really looking forward to agility. Obviously it'll only be flatwork until she's done growing, but all the same! If she doesn't like it, then fine, we'll find something else to do :D

    I have to say again, thanks for the help, I've been really worrying about this.
     
  13. sam

    sam New Member

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    I wouldn't expect a 7-8 week old pup to hold it for 3 hours at first- 2 hours might be the longest it can hold it at 8 weeks.
    I would put an ex-pen in your kitchen with the crate and toys and some paper until the pup gets used to the scheduel and proves it can hold it for that many hours. The last thing you want is a dog that learns to poop in it's crate and be ok with that- then potty training is so much harder.

    I think it's great that your dad can let the dog out in the middle of the day. The pup will certainly be sad and lonely initially but what are you gonna do? Most people can't take months off when they get a new puppy. It will be fine. The fact that you are thinking of all this means you're doing more than the average pet owner.

    Just spend lots of time burning off that border collie brain energy. The biggest mistake people seem to make with herding dogs is thinking that leash walks or going sniffing is enough and it's just not. The need to have their brains engaged and you have to find ways to make thier lives stimulating that way with extra mental stim through games and toys that make them think, training and dog sports etc One walk a day typucally isn't enough for a high drive dog they need something in the morning AND at night which is where training and dogsports come in.
     
  14. .Alice.

    .Alice. New Member

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    I would have loved to have the crate downstairs in a pen, but it's not really an option. I need the crate in my room for the night times, and it is massive so it would be impossible to drag it up and down the sstairs each day!

    I've been told a lot of different things about how long a pup can "hold it", but the average seems to be about 2-3 hours.

    Well I already have a dog that would not live without at least her early morning run. She would keel over and die if I told her she had to stay on the leash! We spent a lot of time researching the breed and talking to responsible, experienced breeders to make sure we don't make the wrong choice. We understand that border collies in paticular need a job, and need to be stimulated :D
     
  15. .Alice.

    .Alice. New Member

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    I'm still unsure of what to do. If I was to make a pen fro her, what could I make it out of?

    Perhaps she could be crated int he morning and in the pen in the afternoon?

    Some pictures from today!

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Mum and Dad

    [​IMG]

    Gorgeous Dad

    [​IMG]


    I'm smitten!
     
  16. Tracer Tong

    Tracer Tong New Member

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    Crate training is a great and wonderful thing. Go for it.
     
  17. squirtsmom

    squirtsmom New Member

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    when my daughter bought home Squirt, she planned on having her in the crate from about 6 a.m. to 10 p m. and didn't have a problem with that. I know, what an ... and that's my own daughter. I took the dog, and she is never in the crate except for a couple of hours in the aftern oon. I don't think that your schedule sounds bad at all. YOu are thinking and planning to make it the b est for you dog. Good Luck.
     
  18. Doberluv

    Doberluv Active Member

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    What an adorable picture of you and your pup. I think it's best that she's starting off with this schedule rather than when people take a couple of weeks off work and the pup gets use to them being around all the time, then they leave for work all day...shell shock. I think it's better for him to get use to it from the get go. And the x-pen you can buy. I think if you made it out of wood, she'd chew it. Yes, 8 week old pups can't hold it for long at all. They barely feel it ahead of time. So, the best you can do is maybe put a crate in an x-pen and maybe even a little box and train him to that in addition to outdoors when you can get him out. That could be confusing, but I know some people do that. At least he could learn to go in the box, not all over the place. Hmmm...just some thoughts.
     
  19. .Alice.

    .Alice. New Member

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    Haha, thanks!

    I'll certainly look into getting a play pen type thing, I'll look around the pet shops and things. She seems quite carm and not bouncing of the walls, but I realise that could easily change!

    I'll have a quick looknow an dsee what I can find.
     
  20. Herschel

    Herschel New Member

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    Wait--why do the mom and dad look so small? Is this breeder pitching these as miniature Border Collies or something??
     

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