How much do you tell puppy buyers?

Discussion in 'The Breeding Ground' started by Freehold, May 16, 2012.

  1. -bogart-

    -bogart- Member of WHODAT Nation.

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    Maybe she just wants you to back off and let her do her thing. You have tons of experiance and want what you want , but maybe she feels bullied or just overwhelmed.

    I dont know but it really seems odd you found her here. You had to be googling and stalking her to find this post as you are not a member here . Maybe she just feels pressured and needs to be left alone for a bit. Maybe since you have so much experiance she is just plain out nervous dealing with you and is overwhelmed because of everything.

    my advise is just step back and let them develop and then come together and oick the pup best for you , and really How could you know which one is best yet? there literally weeks old.

    give it time and relax, ow and it is really really creepy you showed up here only , this place is a good one to hang in , so go do a intro and stay awhile , we are a diverse and friendly group.
     
  2. release the hounds

    release the hounds Active Member

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    at 3 weeks, I don't give a **** if a breeder tells me anything other than they've been born.

    at this point, I trust the people I get dogs from enough, and know enough to get the dogs I want. I don't care what they are doing at 3 weeks of age or at 5 weeks or whatever they were doing before I get them.

    I know the people are doing what they say they're doing, and if it's someone else, I test the dog myself. So whatever they did or didn't do doesn't really matter, if the puppy passes great, if not, oh well.
     
  3. Fran101

    Fran101 Resident fainting goat

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    Regardless of experience, deposit, travel time or anything else, until you have that puppy, signed the contract and have paid in full.. this is HER breeding program and HER puppies. Deposits do not guarantee anything at all and it is the breeders choice to decide how puppy placement goes, regardless of experience level of people on the deposit list.

    I'm sure you mean well, as I did say.. but I think it really is just a case of stress, and mis-communication. Mis-communication of what deposits are, what they mean, and what each party is responsible for or "owed".

    I know it's hard to swallow but as of right now that isn't your puppy, you have a DEPOSIT on A PUPPY. So no, really, she doesn't "owe" you anything anymore then paying a security deposit means you have an apartment lol a deposit just holds your place in line.. it does NOT indicate partial ownership or partial payment of a puppy that is already yours. Which is why, in many cases, they are refundable :)

    This is just my 2 cents. As you said, only you both know the entire story but IMO this is just a big old case of mis-communication.

    Breeders have a lot of responsibility. and between puppies, dogs and puppy buyers.. not everyone is going to be happy ALL THE TIME sometimes. but more than anything, I think this just goes to show that responsibilities and expectations need to be made CLEAR, EARLY in the process, before these kinds of problems arrise.

    and compromise and communication, as with most relationships but including the breeder/owner relationship, is key.

    You are excited, curious and concerned about this litter and feel you are owed more information.
    She is stressed, tired, and trying to give all information you want while still remaining sane and being in control of her puppies and her breeding program lol

    ..I'm sure there is a compromise in there somewhere.

    so welcome to the forum :D
     
  4. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

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    Weird.. way to take it from anonymous to "hey its me"

    As a breeder (not of wolfhounds though lol) I say Freehold is doing above levels of communication. I know many a breeder who won't tell you anything much other than they are alive and growing. IF a puppy that has had complications is one that you might consider they then discuss what issues could arise from that puppy. If it turns out that a particular puppy is not for your consideration at the end of the day then really its not your business (in their minds, and I kinda agree) what issues someone else's pup may or may not have.

    Caveat.. as long as its not genetic and you are planning on breeding. Then of course it does affect you and your puppy.

    I understand the wanting to know. But this is the reason many people don't want to overshare. Puppies, not even with a special needs litter, take up so much time and energy that running around worrying about puppy buyers who may or may not even by in the running for that puppy is an added extra stress.

    So my suggestion, Julia Mae, would be to wait and see. I get that you are a serious IW owner. As a JRT breeder and avid dog sport competitor I am pretty firm in picking what I want. However if the breeder offers me the choice of two puppies they think are most suitable for me I either choose one or I don't. IME most serious breeders don't let people choose what ever puppy they feel like.

    Regardless, welcome to Chaz, hope you stick around for the pics and dog discussions and not just for stalking.
     
  5. JuliaMae

    JuliaMae New Member

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    Tell me -bogart- if I am not a member here how do I manage to post. Did you read my "very upset" emails. Did you also read my post where I thought I had clearly explained that I was worried about the entire litter.
    I do have an google alert for Irish Wolfhounds. But it was a friend that told me that I could get information on puppies here before it was posted on the blog.
    Found this is an over all friendly site and and decided to stay.
    I only posted in self defense because I will not be accused of things that just are not true most especially as it is not me who has my knickers in a twist.
    JuliaMae
    “If caring is a crime, color me guilty.”
     
  6. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

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    The creepy part is the way you jumped in. Not really that you found it (the internet can by much smaller than people realize) but that you didn't follow normal forum etiquette. Sharing private emails is really a faux pas, as is not introducing yourself. Perhaps you are just new to forums. But it does come across as being stalkerish. We on chaz have seen stalkers show up, and this is exactly their MO.

    No caring is great. Jumping in here is weird. Coming on here and saying Hey I wonder if this is about me and its interesting to get different points of view... would be less stalkerish. But coming on, no intro and sharing personal emails is bizarre.

    ETA the only person who knew it was you was you and the OP. So if you hadn't jumped in this thread no one else on earth would have known it was about you. So without jumping in there was no need to defend yourself ;)
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2012
  7. -bogart-

    -bogart- Member of WHODAT Nation.

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    ALRIGHT then i had it wrong you are a member as of the first post hell i will have to go to ya profile to see when it was.

    I am glad ya stayed becuse we all like new puppy pics lol.

    as to twisted knickers , easiest way to deal with them is just pull em out and be done with it. all the wiggling around will just wedge them tighter. lol

    no one knew who the buyer was and until you outed yourself .

    but seriously , just put it down to an overly tired breeder being sensative and go from there . just let her do her thing and you do you. and let the time come then come together and pic you new family member.
     
  8. MafiaPrincess

    MafiaPrincess Obvious trollsare Obvious

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    Seems like you are spending a lot of time finding freehold on the net. That is creepy. Considering she is pretty new here herself, it appears you joined after. Great, hope you learn something from the forum, but chasing your breeder down across the net wouldn't thrill many people.

    I paid in full for Smudge. Flew him from North Carolina. Yet I didn't feel I had more of a right or a say in his litter than anyone else. Needing bi-daily updates or faster updates.. I get you are all squee puppy, but lord your breeder is tired. She has little time for herself or her family as this litter has become all consuming. While your interests lie in your potential puppy, your needing of updates is to the point of crossing boundaries, posting here and letting it be known you are that buyer does somewhat too.
     
  9. JuliaMae

    JuliaMae New Member

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    Ok please read my emails before you accuse me of stalking. This was discussed on another site and I believed we had an understanding her exact words when I apologized were "Don't worry, it's not too easy to offend me. And yes, there's always at least two sides to any story (if not three one side, the other side, and the truth). Everyone has the puppy's best interests in mind - it's just the communication that seems to get in the way sometimes."
    Three hrs. later this crap is posted over here. Now I have to go I have just recieved an update so I will reply. My excact words will be. (Thank you for the update, I really appreciate it very much. Loved the picture of the "dignified matron". Best wishes to all)
    I will not I repeat I WILL NOT ask a single question.
    JuliaMae
    “If caring is a crime, color me guilty.”
     
  10. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

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    Your emails are none of our business. The stalking that was mentioned was jumping on the forum and 'defending' yourself. Emails being private aren't really stalking.

    Anyway.. we love dogs, duh.. why not do up an intro at share your dogs with us. We LOVE pic threads :D
     
  11. Lyzelle

    Lyzelle New Member

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    I think what bothers me the most out of all this is that this potential puppy buyer thinks that she is OWED something and that she thinks she should get updates on the puppy SHE wants to get updates on. Rude much? Doesn't matter WHAT deposit you paid, HOW much you MIGHT travel to get a POTENTIAL puppy....it's not your dog, not your litter, and you need to back up and get over yourself. Holy cow.

    A breeder being open and honest is one thing. That is OFFERING information on the litter. A potential buyer demanding information? That's way over the line in my opinion. And then coming here to try and "defend" herself, only to have her appear that much worse? Tracking down your breeder, demanding information out of them, thinking you are OWED something by them...it's all rather rude.

    I'm neither a breeder nor am I on a waiting list at the moment, it's just common sense to me. Not your dog, not your litter. You aren't owed a darn thing. Really, how rude can you get?

    Breeder didn't even come to rant or rave on this woman. She just asked how much information she should be giving out, and the backstory as to why she was feeling that way. And, heck, I wouldn't blame her if she decided to halt all updates. This is definitely one of those "wow" moments when you remember how self-entitled some people can be!
     
  12. JuliaMae

    JuliaMae New Member

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    Thanks bogart, you are pretty much right and I agree with you, except for the fact that nobody knew who I was until I outed myself. Contrary to what seems to be popular belief I was not stalking. A friend and a member told me about this site.
    I sure will post pictures of my puppy when I get him home. Can hardly wait.
    JuliaMae
    Now a word to Freehold where every one who cares to can see it.
    I DO NOT like posting this stuff on forums and would much rather discuss any problems with you personally. But when our differances are settled on one site I asume everything is well, then a few hrs later you start posting the same old stuff on another site how do repect me to react.


    “If caring is a crime, color me guilty.”
     
  13. JuliaMae

    JuliaMae New Member

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    Lyzelle, Careful if you get both feet in your mouth you are liable to choke.

    "Any person who thinks they know it all, ceases to learn and in ceasing to learn becomes stupid"
     
  14. Freehold

    Freehold New Member

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    In a brief FIRST response - before the rest - this post can BEFORE the settlement on the other site. And had not been added to after that, other than in terms of resolvement. Those posts were added while I was writing the following:

    Posting timeline:
    First post on IW Forum: Post subject: Is Puppy OK? Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 8:22 pm
    First post that concerned me: Post subject: Re: Is Puppy OK? Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 5:53 am
    My response on the IW Forum: Post subject: Re: Is Puppy OK? Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 10:42 am
    My post on Chaz: 05-16-2012, 11:51 AM
    My more detailed post on Chaz: 05-16-2012, 02:04 PM
    My settlement post on IW Forum: Post subject: Re: Is Puppy OK? Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 2:28 pm (also my last post on that thread)
    My last post on Chaz (after having read and responded on IW Forum – and when I made the mistake of not having the thread deleted…): 05-16-2012, 03:32 PM
    The last post on the subject on Chaz before JuliaMae found it: 05-16-2012, 05:57 PM
    The date JuliaMae responded on Chaz: Yesterday, 07:00 PM (which would have been May 20th)



    *hidinghead* (you guys need a smilie for that one... lol)

    I posted this thread when I was frustrated and upset with the post on the Irish wolfhound forum. It was before you posted your later response, JuliaMae, so I was very upset and wanted input from others. I considered removing the entire thread after your response - guess I should have... But perhaps now that you are here and posting you might have the chance to get to learn from some of the interesting and highly varied individuals on here.

    To me, this forum is my place to relax. It doesn't have a whack of Irish Wolfhound breeders who will judge me as a member of those who breed their breed (like the IW Forum). I came here on invite from a Real Life friend who happens to be a long-standing member here, and thought I would enjoy it.

    99% of the time the posts on here came after (or at the same time as) the blog posts. The material in the updates was sometimes different, yes, but not by much. A different photo here, a voiced concern there. Often I would type a post here while typing a blog post (and waiting for stuff to load from my computer). Yes, the button was clicked here first sometimes. Sometimes when I have very little time, I would post here between blog postings, since I couldn't fit in the time to do both.

    I have been raising this litter of puppies to the best of my ability. I do have help from my mother, and sometimes my father, but both are in the 70s and get worn out pretty easily. Any medical treatments always fall onto me. All weigh-ins are my job. I am the one who cleans up the bedding. I am the one who manages the emails and who does all the blog posts. I am the one who has to photograph and/or video. Yes, I have help, but the brunt of it fall onto me. And, at the end of the day the only thing I get for it is the satisfaction of having done my best. The entire financial brunt (both good and bad) is my parents'.

    In addition to the puppies I have to care for my 2 kids (12 and 4). While the 12-yr-old can mostly care for himself and is away at school much of the time, the 4-yr-old only goes to school every other day (if that). She requires a lot more general care as she's much too young to care for herself. My husband works out of town and is only home on weekends. Since the puppies were born he's been called into work all but two weekends. So even on weekends I generally have the kids to myself.

    Of course I have other animals too. Two dogs, a cat, various small critters. They have all been badly neglected, but they will live. At least my son can do the majority of their care since I don't often have the time or the energy.

    Since the puppies arrived my son has managed to get sick twice... missing 5 days of school. My daughter has been sick once. My mother has gotten a rare infection and needs to be on IV antibiotics and have repeated visits to the ER. Amazingly I've only gotten sick once, and relatively minor (considering everything).

    Since the puppies I have had to cancel numerous appointments, including essential medical-type ones. I've avoided making the all-too necessary appointment with the chiropractor for my thrown-out neck/back because I just don't have the time for it. I've not been able to go out and enjoy myself, including for my 13th wedding anniversary. Actually, this weekend was my first chance post-puppy to go out and have fun (we went to the drive-ins with the kids and some friends).

    I'm not one to complain. I don't go telling everyone about everything I have to do, all the things that go wrong, how exhausted I've been. The only reason I'm saying anything is that honestly, I don't think you have any real idea of what I've been going through.

    JuliaMae, you will be a fabulous owner for whatever puppy you get. I have no doubt of this. I don't mind giving you updates (nearly always daily through the blog, and often through email). I don't mind answering your questions. But I have my limits. No, my son can't give you the updates you would like. He can't spell worth beans... and while he's pretty good for 12, his ability to know what to say is pretty limited. My mother checks the emails ever 2-3 days, but isn't the best email communicator either. She's past the "the computer is scary" stage, but still panics at least 2-3 times while she's online because she thinks she wrecked something. Basically she requires babysitting while trying to do stuff online... I love her dearly, but she's just not caught up to the technological age very well. My dad - well the computer is liable to eat him... He prefers his old Apple IIe. So, in reality it's up to me to keep up to things on here.

    I don't know what else to say. Everything about this litter has been insanely stressful. I don't know if I will ever be brave enough to try breeding again. I know that there's always some risk of losing a bitch to whelping. But going through it twice in a week... And I know that some puppies will die in the average large litter, but losing three puppies despite all our efforts and interventions, especially when we've had the extra commitment of bottle and tube feeding has been heart-wrenching.

    With Green puppy's congestion, I made the decision to share with you my concerns because you had expressed such a strong interest in him. I know that the way things have worked out you get first puppy pick, and that you had grown attached to him. I don't really mind that, and as I get to know the puppies I suspect that he or Orange will be the puppies that best suit your needs.

    I have not told any of the other puppy buyers about Green. Honestly, I didn't even talk to the stud owner about it as I didn't feel that it was relevant to her. She knows I am doing everything I can to care for the puppies. I've not shared every tiny little up and down about every puppy to every potential buyer. I had fears that things might go badly with Green, and wanted you to know, in case the worst were to happen (which it hasn't thank goodness). I thought that was better than just announcing that Green had passed away because of the congestion becoming pneumonia. At least this way if things went south you'd have a chance to be prepared.

    I have at times regretted following my conscience and telling you. :rolleyes: It has been stressful enough as it was... But I can only be who I am.

    Anyway, I didn't want to bring up specific names, or specific puppies. I didn't really want it on public forums. When you first posted on the IW forum I was actually a bit relived, as I knew what the responses of the other breeders would be. And I was right - they all told you of the pressures of raising puppies and that daily updates were above and beyond the call of duty. I was hoping that they would settle your nerves and concerns and that you would feel that I wasn't doing such a bad job. But the thread grew from there as you added more specifics. Which is why this thread came up in the first place...

    This isn't stuff that really belongs in public forums. But since it is here, I will respond here.

    To everyone else, thanks SO much for your support throughout this very trying breeding experience. Posting here and having your support has made a big difference to me. I have felt very welcome, and supported by the dog-loving population of Chazhound. Thank-you.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2012
  15. SaraB

    SaraB New Member

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    I was so sad to read about the extra stress you are going through Freehold. Seriously, if I ever got a dog from a breeder like you I would be ecstatic with all the updates, pictures and videos! Not only that but the stress that you went through when Renee bloated TWICE, ugh that's bad enough when it happens by itself but in correlation to the birth of a HUGE litter?? That is just heart wrenching. You are a great person who obviously loves her dogs and is trying so hard to do right by everyone.
     
  16. JuliaMae

    JuliaMae New Member

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    I have told Freehold more then once that her and her mother are doing a great job. I will also say that I would not have wanted a puppy had it not been Aotearoa breeding. I wanted a puppy sired by Heke and the fact that Renee is full sister to Moa is an added advantage.We will not go into all this boring IW stuff.
    I am tired of all this but I will tell you right now that I will never upset Freehold by asking questions that any other IW breeder would gladly answer. I wil not ask a single question. If she chooses to share information thats great if not oh well.I will make my decision to drive out or not according to the information I am given. That is the bet I can do.
    And because there are some nice people on here I will say that I am not all that computor savvy and would not know how to stalk anyone online even if I wanted to, and I do not. I deeply resent being accused of being a stalker and consider it rude beyond belief. Usually when you are accused of some thing it is some thing the accuser knows all about and would probably do them selves.
    I will not whine and tell you all my troubles because I am not into poor me and pity trips. All I will say is this is the first time that the purchase of a puppy is something way less than happy and not because the litter is premature either.
    Ok first thing some smart butt is going to say is "why buy a puppy under these circumstances?" So I will answer before you ask. This is an Aotearoa breeding and was recommended to me by Aotearoa who I trust completely. Over and out.
    JuliaMae
     
  17. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

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    One of our few FIRM policies here is do NOT bring dramas from other forums here. Period.

    And no, Freehold, you did not do that. As a member, you asked for opinions from other members and did not name names or do ANYTHING wrong.
     
  18. puppydog

    puppydog Tru evil has no pantyline

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    Anything I can think of and anything they ask. Why lie? Its their dog after all.
     
  19. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

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    But its not their dog yet. I agree once they have been offered a particular, or choice they need to here the details of that (those) pup. But not yet. I don't think anyone is saying lie!! But how much detail do you give day to day to prospective puppy owners? No one said lying about things.
     
  20. Red Chrome

    Red Chrome New Member

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    I dealt with a Puppy buyer like the one above. Great home and placement, but extremely pushy and almost a bully about updates. I refunded her deposit And told her my breeding wasn't for her and that o wasn't the right breeder for her. With a buyer like this....you have to worry about the pushiness for the rest of a puppies life. No thank you.
     

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