how do i find a mate to breed with my shihtzu?

tempura tantrum

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#81
please give her some good advice and help her tell her parents anything they haven't thought of.
I'm not really sure how you don't see that what we ARE doing is giving her good advice. If this breeding happens in spite of it, then she's a BYB plain and simple. As Grammy said, no Shih Tzu breeder worth their salt would even *consider* using her dog at stud. He's cute, but cute is really not enough. There are plenty of cute sweet little doggies every where that never get bred, and somehow their lives, and the lives of their owners remain complete.

help them do it responsibly..this stuff happens everyday but they are trying to do it right so help them out with some good advice
First of all "this kind of stuff happens everyday" is a cop-out. Lots of bad things happen everyday. Does that make them right? No.

Fine- they want to do it right? Well then, here's the bare minimum for being responsible:

1) The bitch and stud should be titled in some way shape or form. With Shih Tzus, this usually means that they should compete in conformation and be champions. Please check my previous post on this thread to see why this is important.

2)Both bitch and dam need to be health tested. THIS DOES NOT MEAN A VET CHECK-UP. This means the animals need x-rays of hips and knees sent to OFA or Penn-HIP. Results should come back good or excellent. Otherwise you're at risk for producing puppies with dysplastic hips and knees.

Think breeding is cheap? Not if you're breeding dysplastic dogs. My neighbors had to replace the hips of their BYB Golden Retriever at the tune of $5000. What was the other option? Euthanasia. If Robin's parents don't know what either hip dysplasia, OFA or Penn-HIP are, they have NO business breeding. Especially if they aren't willing to fund hip surgeries for the pups they produce.

Do her parents understand the pedigrees of the bitch and the dam? With toy dogs this is especially important. In general you want smaller studs and bigger bitches. How big is the stud in question? If he's over-sized, the puppies could very well be too big for the dam, and cause a painful, dangerous, and even life-threatening labor for the dam. There have been countless BYBs who have lost bitches this way. Are Robin's parents prepared for that responsibility?

Do they know what CERF is? They should. Both dog and bitch need to have eyes certified by CERF before their bred. Most people aren't so thrilled about buying blind puppies. Ask all the rescue groups that are trying in vain to place blind dogs.

Do they know that dogs CAN get sexually transmitted diseases? Diseases which can cause sterility and even death? Hope they do. A Brucellosis test is in order at the very *least.*

3) Homes should be lined up for all the puppies before any of them are born. AND there should be a contract stating that in any event, no matter WHAT the age of the dog (be it 5 months or 15 years), that they will take back dogs that they have bred. EVERY responsible breeder does this. It is part of being a "grown up" about the situation. When you create lives, you take responsibility for them for the ENTIRETY of their lives. Just like kids. Contracts should also mandate spay and neuter of all pet-quality puppies. Which it sounds like, in the case of this breeding, they are all going to be anyway.

Finally- you say that the breeder Robin obtained her dog from has bred champions before? WHERE is the breeder in this situation. Any GOOD breeder would be involved 100% in a breeding involving one of their animals. At the very least, they would want to approve your choice of bitch. Your breeder is your mentor in a situation like this.

Was this dog sold on a show contract? If not, I find it odd that he isn't neutered already. Responsible breeders mandate the spaying or neutering of pet-quality dogs. Tell Robin's parents to call the breeder and ask for guidance in this situation.

People want all the fun of puppies, but none of the work. When will people begin to take responsibility for their actions? It's very hard not to become frustrated in a situation like this. Robin- please show your parents this thread. Or at least tell them to look into OFA, CERF, and Penn-Hip. You owe it to the Shih Tzu breed, and to any future puppies you produce.
 

joce

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#82
this about sums it up
The Backyard Breeders' and Puppy Millers' Big Book of Old Excuses

Written by Denna Pace.


1. When called on bad breeding practices, ALWAYS claim that you are merely an innocent posting as a favor to a friend or family member.

2. Point out that everybody you know breeds this way, therefore it must be okay.

3. Claim that "snobby show breeders" are only criticizing you because they want to corner the market on puppy profit.

4. Claim that a Champion in the pedigree is just as good as 56 Champions in the pedigree. Not that it matters, because you doubt that there is such a thing as a dog with 56 champions in the pedigree.

5. Claim that you are just trying to produce good pets, therefore good pets are all you need for breeding.

6. When asked about health testing, enthusiastically point out that your bitch had a health checkup before breeding.

7. Be sure to mention that you do not need to run such health tests as OFA, CERF, thyroid, cardiac, patellae, etc., because your dogs look healthy and had no visible problems at their last vet checkup.

8. Point out that these tests cost too much and would cut into your profit margin. Be sure to champion the right of poor people to breed dogs.

9. Confidently assure worried rescuers that no puppy you produce, or any of their puppies or grand puppies or great-grandpuppies will end up in shelters because you have a bunch of friends who have told you that they'd like a pup from your bitch.

10. Point out that you don't need Championships or working titles on your dogs because you are breeding for temperament and your dog is really sweet.

11. Silence those annoying people who ask about your health guarantee by assuring them that buyers can return any sick puppies and you will replace it with another pup as long as it got sick within a certain amount of time of sale and as long as you don't think the buyer did something to make the puppy sick.

12. If your breed or line is rare (or you have a "rare" color, or believe your breed or color is rare), be sure to remind everyone that you do not need to show, temperament test, or health test your breeding stock because you are doing the world a service by continuing this "rare" breed/color/line.

13. No matter what anyone else says, claim that you obviously know what you are doing because you've been breeding for a long time. Point to the hundreds of puppies you've pumped out over the years as proof.

14. If this is your first attempt at breeding, make sure to remind everyone that you HAVE to breed your dog because how else are you going to learn how to breed?

15. Assure everyone that your dog does not need to be shown because you were assured by someone at Petsmart/the park/the vet's office/a friend that your dog is a perfect example of the breed.

16. Always remember that "rare" colors, oversized or undersized dogs, and mixes of popular breeds are great selling points. Anyone who doesn't think so is obviously not in tune with their customers' wishes.

17. Claim that your dogs are better because they are not inbred, as inbreeding obviously produces sick/stupid/deformed dogs. If breeding poo [as in "Cock-a-Poo," "Peek-a-Poo," etc.] dogs or other mutts, always point to "hybrid vigor" as proof of your dogs' superiority.

18. Remind everyone that you do not need a waiting list because your puppies are cute.

19. Assure everyone that your puppies will not end up in shelters because they are cute.

20. Claim that YOUR breed never ends up in shelters in your area, therefore your puppies will never end up in shelters.

21. If asked why you think your dogs are breeding quality, point out that they "have papers." Extra points awarded for using the phrase "AKC Certified." Double points if those papers come from the Continental Kennel Club.

22. If you sell a sick puppy, always blame the owners for making it sick. If the owners are clearly not responsible, blame their vet. (see #11)

23. If presented with irrefutable evidence proving you wrong on any excuses you have used, pretend your server did not receive the post/e-mail.

24. Claim that none of the rules of ethical breeding apply to you because you only intend to have one litter and therefore aren't a "real" breeder.

25. If all else fails, tell everyone who criticizes you to "get a life."


Written by Denna Pace . It was compiled by reading the horrible BYB ads on rec.pets.dogs.breed. Please credit when quoting.
 
B

BlackDog

Guest
#84
[/QUOTE]
but heres the deal they bought their dog from some "Champion??" breeder or something for a lot of money(what her mom tells me) anyways her parents want to breed him for another puppy and have found a few extra home in case the person with the girl shih-tzu cant. [/QUOTE]

My friend's family bought a beagle from a breeder that told them their dog was show quality and the sire or dam was a champion. Well, they paid thousands of dollars for the dog, got it home, and it died 2 weeks later from a seizure. The point of the story is there are many breeders out there that will tell you anything to get you to buy their dogs for a high prices and 98% of those dogs have health problems and/or behavioral problems.

In closing, good breeders won't just hand over their show quality dog to you enless you are going to show it. And wonse they've determined that you are going to show it they will either have a co-ownership purchase with you or keep in very close contact with you to make sure you are really showing the dog and not just using the dog for breeding purposes. Their is almost 0 chance that this dog is show quality given the situation.

[/QUOTE]
give her some good advice and help her tell her parents anything they haven't thought of.[/QUOTE]

We all have been giving her good advice. Wether or not she'll take it is another story.

[/QUOTE]
help them do it responsibly..this stuff happens everyday but they are trying to do it right so help them out with some good advice other than "don't do it"
[/QUOTE]

If they were trying to do it responsibly they's realize the danger they'd be putting the dam, and future puppies in and not do it. If you want to call yourself a responsible breeder, you have to start out with the breeding quality dog to begin with.
 

moe

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#85
Have you even checked if these "papers" carry breeding restrictions. if they do you are not allowed to breed? and if you go against that, non of the litter will ever be able to be AKC registered. so you will be providing non KC registered pups, that may have dubious health/temperment and after all of this you will no doubt NOT get a pup that is anything like the father of the litter, because you have bred to another dog outside its bloodlines so no consistancey. you would have put more thought into this breeding if you put the dog outside in the street to meet up with any bitch in season and hope that you will get a pup from this. it is totally irresponsible, what you are thinking of doing, many times in this thread you have been told/advised about health checks, and by the post from your boyfriend, it seems that you think this is JUST worming, this is NOT whats been adviced, should you go aheal and breed from your dog you could more than likely breed a litter with serious health problems, that could end up breaking the hearts of the new owners, because their pups/dogs are in so much pain, THINK SENSIBLY before you enbark on this road as it is definately a road of pain and heartbreak.

Mo
 

Cassiepeia

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#86
I think the big thing here is that the possibility the pups you breed will be unhealthy is quite high.
You had big problems with your last dog (no, I'm not blaming you for that), imagine having a mass of problems with the new pup? Vet bills can really pile up and the whole point of only breeding the very best dogs is to reduce the amount of health (and temperament) problems in the pups.

Genetic problems may not show up in a dog until it's 2yrs old (or over) so although the pups may seem fine at first, you may end up paying big vet bills further down the line. And where is the sense in that?

It's far better if you pay out a small fee for a dog from a shelter or reputable breeder, than breed your dog and end up with a pup that is riddled with health problems. You'll pay less in the long run.

Oh and I think it's wonderful you've come here to ask and have actually stayed to listen. It says a LOT about you and your love for not just your dog but dogs in general. :D

Cass.
 

Ashlea

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#87
God help us all

Robin. Do you realise that vacs, health checks, puppy food and training/socalicsation classes for this puppy will likely cost you more than getting an adult or young adult dog from you local shelter.

It is frightening to me to see how many people think it is okay to breed willy nilly. My Pap is a rescued BYB brood bitch. Not only was she dying of billery when she was found on the side of a highway but she had 3 broken ribs and was lactating. Lord knows what happened to her pups.

Let me start by listing her hereditary health problems. Bilateral luxating patella. Elongated soft pallate (which I paid to have excized) enlarged tonsils which are prone to infection. She is on her third course of anti biotics in 5 months. She has asthma, hayfever and foliculitis. All of which cost me a pretty penny. There have been times over the past 5 months where she has been so ill and cost me so much that I have been eating minced pilchards and rice while she has been getting home cooking and premium kibble.
I have cried, worried myself to a standstill and loved her to death.

I can't help but think about her pups, however many those bastards let her pump out, and wonder how they are doing. She was rescued from a very underprivellaged area and I know for a fact that those people do not have the money to spend R8 900.00 in 5 months on a dog. God know I don't. I am in huge debt because of Lilly. (Bare in mind I only clear R4500.00 per month and that just covers my living expenses)
I look at it as my responsibility. I took her on and I LOVE her. She is my joy, my reason for getting up in the mornings, but the poor little thing battles everyday because her parents were bred because they were cute and small. (She stands at 21 cm and is 7 lbs).

Please, think about what you will be doing by breeding an inferior dog! Do you want to put people through this pain. It really hurts!
The cop out of "it will happen anyway" is so disgusting it makes me want to hurl!
 

AusCatDogs_4Ever

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#88
Hi Robin, this thread seems to be the only one your interested in. Why don't you try posting other threads? You can learn a lot of important info here. :) I would love to see more pics of your shih tzu too.

Just wondering - have you decided not to breed, or what's going on?
 
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#90
ummb.. i dont know another thread to post, and im not sure if i still want to breed, but if i do decide to he will definately be health examined and everything first.and so will the female whoever she may be.
 

AusCatDogs_4Ever

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#92
Robin, please read this thread. There is no movie yet, but it explains what the movie will be about. If you read all of it, you'll see how many things can go wrong with the dam, and how it's not right to breed just because "you want a pup from your dog". I'm not trying to be harsh, just trying to help. :)
 
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#93
Well i havent read all the posts here, but from what i have read I am shocked how can you want to breed your dog when you havent a clue about health testing let alone anything else?
 
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#95
wow!!! i dun kno what to say too that, but i wouldn want to see that video it be to grusome. as long as i have my dogs health tested and stuff + the other dog i would most likely be ok right? and if i had puppy homes actually lined up?
 

Saje

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#96
Robin why don't you PM Mach1girl and talk to her about the breed of puppies she just had. She can give you an idea of all the work that goes into it.

Also, you might want to start taking your dog out, training it and maybe competing. It will help you meet more people in the industry and you might find a mentor.
 
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#97
RobinKalmick said:
wow!!! i dun kno what to say too that, but i wouldn want to see that video it be to grusome. as long as i have my dogs health tested and stuff + the other dog i would most likely be ok right? and if i had puppy homes actually lined up?
That's far from the truth. Yes, the pups are MUCH less likely to have an inherited desease (and don't get me wrong, that is extremely important!), but there can still be some birth complications, stillborns, etc. even the best of breeders can have accidens that they just couldn't control.
 

JennSLK

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#98
You whont have ANY say on who gets the puppies. You have a male, right? Well your a stud owner then, wich means you MAY get ONE puppy as a stud fee NOT the litter.
 
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#99
well i guess thats even better. all i want is one puppy. i wont have to wry about the litter. that is if i breed. seriously it will determine if his health is good first, and if i ever find a female.
 

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