How bad is Iams smat puppy?

Discussion in 'Dog Food and Recipes' started by goldiefur, Jul 10, 2012.

  1. goldiefur

    goldiefur New Member

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    We are having some food issues with the Sibes. Orijen and Acana are out! They get extremely sick we added it in slow did not work. One can eat chicken ala veg Fromm just fine the other one pukes it up. The one that pukes up fromm was in the EVET over the weekend due to a reaction to the vaccines and they think Fromm. So now everyone plus the breeder says Iams. He is strictly on boiled chicken and rice now until he gets better then the switch to Iams. I need opinions on this. He can't even handle training treats or cookies at least the ones I tried so far.
     
  2. goldiefur

    goldiefur New Member

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    Ingredients Iams smart puppy pro active health



    Chicken, Corn Meal, Chicken By-Product Meal, Ground Whole Grain Sorghum, Dried Beet Pulp, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E), Chicken Flavor, Chicken Meal, Fish Oil (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E), Dried Egg Product, Potassium Chloride, Brewers Dried Yeast, Salt, Caramel, Choline Chloride, Fructooligosaccharides, Minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Manganese Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Potassium Iodide, Cobalt Carbonate), Vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Acetate, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Thiamine Mononitrate (source of vitamin B1), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Niacin, Riboflavin Supplement (source of vitamin B2), Inositol, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (source of vitamin B6), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid), Calcium Carbonate, DL-Methionine, L-Lysine Monohydrochloride, Rosemary Extract.
     
  3. JessLough

    JessLough Love My Mutt

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    Well... When the choice is a food that may be stellar vs them throwing up all food, you gotta do what you gotta do :)
     
  4. Beanie

    Beanie Clicker Cult Coordinator

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    What kind of cookies/treats have you tried? I'm wondering if there's an ingredient somewhere that is common and is causing him to throw up, or if it's just the Fromm makes his belly gross and he can't handle anything... Is he okay with cookies and treats right now that he's off the Fromm?
     
  5. Toller_08

    Toller_08 Active Member

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    As somebody who tried 10+ brands and formulas (to try out different protein sources, try out grain free vs. grain inclusive, high protein vs. lower protein content, etc.) for two of my dogs with sensitive digestive systems, if he were mine, I would probably keep looking and trying better quality foods. But that's just me. I have a really hard time feeding something I know isn't all that good. Some dogs really can't handle high quality foods, and I thought we might get to that point with Keira, but eventually I found something (now two things actually) that worked for her that was still of a quality I could happily live with.

    So it's really up to you and what you are the most comfortable with. As far as quality goes, no, Iams certainly isn't the best... far from it. But if that's what works for him and you don't want to try to find a better quality food that might agree with him, then there is nothing wrong with that.
     
  6. Lyzelle

    Lyzelle New Member

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    What formulas were they on with Acana and Orijen? 9/10 there IS one singular ingredient causing them issues. It is typically oatmeal, but Acana and Orijen doesn't have oats, I think? In any of their products.

    Second, did vet check their gut for obstruction and/or infections? Sibes are terribly when it comes to digestive things. If the vet hasn't checked...DO NOT SWITCH THEIR FOOD YET. The problem will not go away. If they are truly having a blow out, it'll take a month or two of recovery time. If it's an obstruction, well, that's a whole 'nother can of worms.

    But, antibiotics, probiotics, and keep them on boiled chicken and rice.

    What are ALL the formulas they have been on? It's usually a specific ingredient. Oats, chicken, lamb are the most common along with Potatoes, corn, barley, wheat... But I've seen some pretty spectacular dogs allergic to EVERYTHING before, so, meh. Could be anything.
     
  7. Maxy24

    Maxy24 Active Member

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    I wouldn't do it, there has to be a high quality food they do well on, not all high quality foods are the same. Try a limited ingredient, single protein/single carb type food, preferably ones that are different from the foods they couldn't tolerate.
     
  8. ~Tucker&Me~

    ~Tucker&Me~ and Spy.

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    Have you considered trying a limited ingredient food? Acana/Orijen have a lot of different stuff in their formulas. Natural Balance makes limited ingredient formulas, as does Cali Natural. If it were me, I would try the Cali Natural limited ingredient formulas (one is venison, one is kangaroo) because I think they are better quality than NB.

    Make the switch to whatever you choose, but give it a good month or so to work and do the transition as slowly as possible. If it were me I would be trying a lot more before resorting to IAMS.
     
  9. goldiefur

    goldiefur New Member

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    I was thinking Cal Nat also if it comes to it. Obstructions have been ruled out by xrays but when he went to the regular vet the vet admits it could be some type of virus they are just not sure if it is really the fromm or the vaccines. They re wormed both dogs just in case and for the last vaccine they are going to break that up and not give it all at once. The vet was insistent that Sibes are so sensitive they have to be on Purina something or other and the breeder says Iams so really maybe I will just give him more time until he is off the Flagyl and the Carafate and slowly add the Fromm back in. The acana was chicken flavor they had terrible diarreha when they tried adding that so we did not try the chicken orijen. When they were here I think it is possible they got some of the Goldens red meat Orijen. I'm just panicky that everyone wants to give up and use Iams. Would Fromm be a good choice to stick with if I could wean him back onto it? If I could get him on that I would be scared to switch again. The treats have been out of the diet for like 3 weeks now Zukes so I don't think that was the real problem. When I think back now he did have a 12 hour episode of vomiting around the time of the 9 week vaccines. Now everyone is afraid to give him the rabies shot. Poor little guy has been a trooper through all of this and everyone fell in love with him at the EVET over the weekend. He has such a sweet disposition Denali on the other hand is very rambunctious and wants his way.:yikes:
     
  10. Bailey08

    Bailey08 New Member

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    Why are they on the medications? Is there something going on in addition to the vomiting? Any worms?

    I don't mean to come across as too strident, but please, please don't vaccinate anyone whose immune system is then compromised. I truly think that part of my now adult dog's health issues were caused by over-vaccination when he was fighting off parasites (giardia). I know that vets have their schedules that they like to follow, and of course your local laws will have something to say about when rabies has to be given, but some dogs (including mine, even now) have trouble with vaccines.

    Maybe look into a homeopathic vet who can give you something to help lessen the side effects of the vaccines. Also, talk to your vet about limiting vaccinations to core vaccines only (distemper, parvo, rabies), spread them out and/or consider titering instead of vaccinating if they've already had two rounds (I did this for my now five month old puppy).

    As for food, I do think you can do better than Iams, and I agree that a limited ingredient food may be the way to go, like California Naturals in a unique protein. That said, you have a puppy that can't keep food down so I don't know that I would spend a lot of time experimenting while you're trying to get other issues under control. I looked at the Iams site and they seem to have a "maximum calorie" veterinary food that you may want to ask your vet about if you're worried the little guy isn't absorbing enough nutrients.

    In other words, and this is just my opinion and I haven't met your dogs and am not a vet, I think there may be something more going on here than just the food.
     
  11. goldiefur

    goldiefur New Member

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    Well they diagnosed McKinley with gastroenteritis possibly due to combo of vaccines and getting into food. They were not sick before the vaccines. The fecal came back no worms but wormed both as a precaution. McKinley is on carafate to sooth his gastro tract and antibiotics so nothing secondary happens. He was slightly dehydrated because we got him to the EVET right away. We would have never been able to wait until Monday and as everyone knows everything happens on the weekend. He has not vomited since he got home now his stools are fine. We are not looking to switch right now but the vet wants to slowly add in Iams and I don't agree with it. The vaccines are scary they have had one set from the breeder and two sets from the vet they are due the last set in three weeks then rabies at 16 weeks. I wonder do they even need the last set of shots?
     
  12. shazbot

    shazbot not so newby

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    Is there a reason the vet is recommending Iams? Are they familiar with the premium foods on the market? I'm asking because my last vet was only really familiar with the junky foods, and thought the food I was feeding Eagle Pack Holistics wasn't as good as Science Diet.

    I second the other advice on Cal Natural.
     
  13. Bailey08

    Bailey08 New Member

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    Poor buddy. :( I hope he feels better soon.

    I'd talk to your vet -- I believe 3 rounds of the core vaccines is the norm (I know I just did 2 + titers (for distemper and parvo)), but maybe they were vaccinated for something other than the usual distemper, parvo, etc.? I'd suggest a conversation with the vet, too, about whether he or she recommends any non-core vaccines (e.g. lyme) and why -- this will vary by area (and McKinley's reaction may impact your decision to give any "extra" shots).

    Is he still vomiting? Have you thought about canned food, maybe? They tend to have fewer ingredients and can be more palatable for dogs.

    I'm glad they have you to help out. :)
     
  14. Dizzy

    Dizzy Sit! Good dog.

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    Have you considered premade raw?

    I say premade for the esse of it... I don't feed raw, mainly because it overwhelms me, but this seems to be a very valid reason for you to look into it.
     
  15. ihartgonzo

    ihartgonzo and Fozzie B!

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    Gonzo got gastroenteritis when he was eating Orijen. Two of my friends' puppies got gastroenteritis on Orijen. I know it works great with some dogs, but I see a really scary trend with that food. :(

    I highly advise Nature's Variety Prairie. I've fostered 5 puppies on it, and all of them did well! 2 of which had liquid diarrhea when they were eating Pedigree in their first foster home.

    Huskies are known for sensitive digestive systems. They tend to do REALLY well on raw. I would recommend pre-made raw if they can afford it, or trying a few other premium brands that aren't as nutrient dense and rich as Orijen. Natural Balance & Nature's Variety are great brands that have many formulas, one is sure to work for them! I would buy a couple small bags and add little by little to the chicken and rice. The answer is NOT switching them to a low quality kibble that is packed with stool hardeners. Just because the stool looks firm does not mean it's doing the dog any good inside. Iams is really, really bad. Like a half-step above Ol Roy, ew.
     
  16. ~WelshStump~

    ~WelshStump~ New Member

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    Not reading all the responses, but from my personal experience, if all the food are "chicken" or "poultry" formula, GET THEM OFF IT! Go to Lamb, Beef, or even Fish. It took me 5 years before I finally decided to give Jinjo a food overhaul with all his issues, I was stupidly naive and listened to my vet on dog food, he started at around 10 months with bad issues, vomiting and bad diarrhea so much he wouldn't eat, they told up boiled chicken and rice then put him on science diet sensitive stomach. He still for all those year had a bout no less than once a week of throwing up and had constant on-off diarrhea. When I finally decided to do something about his diet, it took a year before I found, OH! His problem is white meats, that's it! Poultry, Pork. He was also pegged with his other allergy issues as being caused by vaccines.

    So, with that, I hope you can find the problems soon, but I HIGHLY suggest you go with a completely different protein source, preferable a red meat and no white meats. And make sure the food you choose doesn't have hidden poultry in it! And also, be VERY cautious with future vaccines! If you can, try a minimal vaccine schedule.
     
  17. naturalfeddogs

    naturalfeddogs love the fluff

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    If I fed kibble, I sure wouldn't feed anything by Iams. There are too many other quality foods out there to look into.
     
  18. JustaLilBitaLuck

    JustaLilBitaLuck New Member

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    I second pretty much everything everyone else has said.

    For limited ingredient diets, I really like Instinct LID, Canine Caviar, and PureVita grain-free. All are ALS formulas, so they would be fine for a growing puppy. I would look into adding digestive enzymes and probiotics as well.
     
  19. monkeys23

    monkeys23 New Member

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    No way in hell would I touch Iams. Any Iams. It would make my husky mixes SO SO SICK!!!!!

    Just get those poor Sibes on prey model raw already. Its what they do best on. You'll have issues until you do. I'm not trying to sound pushy... its just the truth about their systems.
    www.preymodelraw.com

    Also, I strongly recommend NOT going with premade raw. If you are going to have issues with raw it will be on premade raw. They probably will still have tummy issues on premade raw. You have no guaruntee whats actually in those grinds and they negate some of the best benefits of raw: the mental stimulation and satisfaction of eating REAL food and the dental benefits of eating as canids are meant to eat.

    My girlies split an elk tongue this morning. Tonight they get green tripe/trachea/gullet mix. NOM! :D
     
  20. Bailey08

    Bailey08 New Member

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    And my dog (with gastro issues) did much, much better on premade raw than frankenprey. I think it was just too much at once for him.

    Honestly, given that the owner is a young man with two new high energy young puppies, I'm not sure it's the right time to figure out prey model raw, especially since you have to be so careful about the calcium/phosphorus ratios in puppies. I have a (single) five month old puppy, and when she was younger, I couldn't focus on much more than potty training/mouthing/impulse control (and keeping myself calm!).

    But I also like Orijen and don't like Nature's Variety (and feed both Orijen and premade raw to my puppy!) -- so, obviously, there is no one right way for us all. :)
     

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