HORSE OWNERS! problem riding... need advice

Discussion in 'The Fire Hydrant' started by Greeneyedlette, Oct 14, 2012.

  1. Greeneyedlette

    Greeneyedlette New Member

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    hi everyone as you know i just bought me a thoroughbred almost 2 weeks ago well im having a problem and its quite dangerous i think. OK well she gets out of her corral fine.. and goes onto the trail find but when i try to make her go forward she just doesn't want to! she will literally walk backwards even when im not trying to make her! well any who the stable hand will come and grab the reins and make her walk forward and its fine then when he walks away she trys to turn back to the stall she stays in ( barn sour horse! ) well i can get her going after a bit we will trot down the whooooole trail then we head back and i will make her turn around to go down again and she will not! she will walk backwards and its not to safe its right next to the ditch full of water! and i wouldn't want her to back up and fall in. ive tried kicking her harder and she backs up faster! ive tried whipping her butt not to hard and kicking at the same time and she will not go forward just back.. its becoming quite frustrating! any advice? she also doesn't stop much i will tell her whoaH! and pull back until she stops and as soon as i let the pressure off shes off trotting again. ADVICE PLEASE!!! IDK WHAT TO DO!
     
  2. Lyzelle

    Lyzelle New Member

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    It sounds like she needs a better owner who isn't going to beat the hell out of her when she comes up with a training problem.

    And then some re-training from the ground up.
     
  3. Greenmagick

    Greenmagick New Member

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    First, let me preface with I know next to nothing about horses....just reading and no hands on or practical experience.

    BUT it sounds to me like this horse is confused and needs to relearn things.
     
  4. thehoundgirl

    thehoundgirl Active Member

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    Thoroughbreds can be quite stubborn, maybe she needs a more experienced owner with the breed or get someone who knows how to train thoroughbreds to help you train her. Kicking her harder and whipping her just because you get mad isn't the answer. Is this your first horse?
     
  5. Grab

    Grab Active Member

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    I don't have a horse, but it would seem to me that responding physically to what sounds to me (a completely horse-unknowledgeable person) like a training issue seems unproductive and like something that will just cause further issue. I am certain some horses are being stubborn, but it would seem to be that by backing up (vs just standing there) the horse is clearly showing fear/uncertainty about going forward on the trail. Has she been ridden on trails before? It can be uncertain terrain for an animal not familiar with it.



    Would you smack or kick your dog for not, for example, getting on an elevator? (or another environment that makes them uncomfortable)
     
  6. thehoundgirl

    thehoundgirl Active Member

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    Yeah, I agree Grab. She could be fearful of going over stuff if she hasn't had to before or had a bad experience. I know I said they can be stubborn, but I do think it has more to do with fear than being stubborn.
     
  7. Barbara!

    Barbara! New Member

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    This. She may be fearful or doesn't understand what you are asking of her. Kicking her isn't going to help.
     
  8. BostonBanker

    BostonBanker Active Member

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    I'll toss out my thoughts as a long-time horse owner/rider/barn manager. And I'll say right off the bat - I fully think that horses *can* be trained positively using the same methods we use on dogs. I also fully think that your average horse can seriously injure or kill you before a dog gets off its feet to bite. I have yet to meet a person who can fully train a horse with what we consider positive methods. I think it is possible - we aren't there. At least I sure as heck am not.

    You are right to be worried. A horse refusing to go forward (and backing up is obviously the next step) is the most dangerous behavior you can have undersaddle if allowed to escalate. I'd take a bucker or a bolter any day over that. I had one for years - Tristan was a miserable young horse, and that was his behavior of choice. He's stand in the middle of the ring and essentially say "I dare you". Back up a step or kick out if you tried to up the ante. He learned that, if we were indoors, I couldn't get after him if he was near the mirrors, and would drift to them and lean a hip against them. When my trainer got behind him (not directly, but just in that zone) to try and chase him forward, he would fly backwards kicking at her.

    It sucked beyond belief, and did a lot to destroy my confidence. The one thing he never, ever did, thank goodness, was rear. Rearing is the ultimate refusal to go forward, and incredibly dangerous. A horse rearing on its own is one thing. Strap a person trying to adjust their own balance on their back, and they lose their own control and can flip easily.

    It was said on the earlier thread about your mare not wanting to go through the gate, and I'll say it here. You *need* to get a professional helping you on a regular basis. This is a very scary situation that is going to escalate if it isn't handled. Nobody, including myself, sitting in front of a computer screen can tell you what is going on. There could be physical or mental issues with the horse, a riding issue with you, a tack issue, or a million other things going on. It isn't fair to you or the mare to try to work through this alone. I obviously have no idea about your riding and training experience, but the best riders I know (and I have friends who have been ranked internationally and long listed for the Olympics) never hesitate to seek help when they run into an issue.
     
  9. Greeneyedlette

    Greeneyedlette New Member

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    FIRST OFF IM NOT KICKING HER OR WHIPPING HER LIKE IM ABUSIVE PEOPLE! and to some people that dont have horses u have to relize u kick the sides to make them go and im not litterally beating her i smack her but lightly with the reins to get her to go so please dont call me a bad owner im asking for advice not to be put down!!!!!! also im not kicking her harder or whipping her because im mad i wouldnt never harm an animal like that so please dont post things like that come on now people!

    Thank you bostonbanker for the advice. we finally got thru the problem of going thru the gate took a few times but shes doing it. im more of an intermediate rider. i us to barrel race and ride steer but that was sooo long ago!! so im starting from the beginning again
     
  10. Fran27

    Fran27 New Member

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    Maybe she's scared of something? Did you try to walk down the trail holding her reins? I'm 100% clueless about horses though.
     
  11. joce

    joce Active Member

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    This is a horse not a dog. They will kick you, bite you, charge you. I don't think she is beating the thing with a pole.

    Horses get kicked and whipped. My barn sour mare gets the crop quite a few times if we have not been out in a while.

    That said I do think you need a trainer and should not be out on trails with this horse at this time.

    If you can not afford it sell and take lessons for a year or two.
     
  12. Greeneyedlette

    Greeneyedlette New Member

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    we have walked that trail so many times the thing is that when we are heading back down the trail towards the barn, she wont turn around nor walk away from the barn. she keeps trying to go to her stall
     
  13. Greeneyedlette

    Greeneyedlette New Member

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    thank you joce! my stable hand knows someone that trains thoroughbred racing horses so he gave me his number this morning and i am going to call him around 9 my time. so im hoping to see why she is doing this
     
  14. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

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    First off I am with BB all the way. (and though I no longer work in the industry I made my living as a trainer/instructor/barn manager or owner for years)

    That said.. I think this is one of your problems..

    This is NOT true. You don't KICK horses to make them go. You train them to move of leg aids. If you are kicking you are doing it wrong or your horse needs more training. I have a highly trained horse that is a been there done that sort. (eventing, hunter, dressage, field hunting, and TV shows..) if you kick her her only response is to 'wake up'. It does not make her go.

    I LOVE love LOVE thoroughbreds. Right now I have 3. I would not say they are stubborn. They are smart, sensitive and are known for having amazing work ethics. However they are not always the most calm and confident of horses. So if you aren't communicating clearly to the horse they tend to get worried. A worried tb can be a dangerous horse. Or they decide you don't know what you are doing so they ignore you.

    In this case it sounds like your horse is worried, very worried and stressed. She doesn't understand what you want and when you kick her she gets more stressed.

    I would suggest lessons. What she is doing could become very dangerous very fast. And if you can't get lessons I would practise a lot more with her in a riding ring. Not a small round pet or corral. Practise communicating with her. See how small an aid you can get her to move off from, turn from, stop from. A good partnership will feel like you are reading eachother's minds. If someone can see what you are doing.. its too much.

    Work on developing clear communication with this horse. IMO once you have forged a good clear relationship with a tb they are the best horses on the planet!
     
  15. Greeneyedlette

    Greeneyedlette New Member

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    Dekka thank you for not being negative and i will try some things. i noticed i wrote it sounding like she will not go forward at all but she does listen to the kissing noise real good. When i first purchased her she was never relaxed due to not having much people around but these last 2 weeks i can notice her stress level lower. her heads in the relaxed state and shes like a puppy dog following me around. lol even the old owner was surprised with how she was acting. I currently called a trainer for Off the track thoroughbreds here and hes willing to help me today! so i will be heading up to the area to see what happens and how the training goes. i will keep you all informed. :)
     
  16. Doberluv

    Doberluv Active Member

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    My first horse did this. He did like to go for rides...it wasn't that he didn't want to leave the barn. But when he didn't want to do something, he'd start backing, backing, backing, right down ditches, down hills, over lumpy ground, up against a log that might be down, which could have caused him to fall..... it was dangerous and very maddening.

    I was a young teen then...like 12 or 13 and had been riding for a few years before that, but hadn't had my own horse before. He came like that as a new horse. He was broken to ride, but nothing more, not neck rein trained, didn't know leads, couldn't canter without trotting for a million miles first..no training other than they must have taught him to back up. Bad idea for a first "trick." :rolleyes:

    Anyhow, it was a bad feeling when he would do this and I wasn't going to stand for it. I really let him have it. Kicked the livin' daylights out of his sides, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, slapped the reins back and forth from one side of his butt to the other very fast and very hard. And hollered at him, "Git up there!!!! Move your bloomin' arse!!!" He got over it. I don't recommend you do that though.

    Meanwhile, I taught him other things...lots of other things and he got rewarded with carrots and praise. He was interested and busy learning new things and he lost interest in doing all that refusing and then backing. He eventually learned to back up correctly, when asked, side pass across a log, learned collection, leads, flying changes, and leg yields etc, etc. I never had to get after him or be rough with him again. He became my show horse. But that first few weeks of having him was a challenge.

    Horses are a whole nuther ball game from dogs. You can not let them think you're wishy washy. Once they get your number, your screwed. If you're not familiar enough with horses, I strongly recommend getting a reputable trainer (one that doesn't do what I did) to help you. The one thing though...you can't equate slapping a horse with slapping a dog. No, you don't want to make them fearful of you and some horses are softer than others. (mine was as tough as nails and not one bit flighty) I wouldn't never have done that to my Arabians and I suspect not to a Thoroughbred. They're too flighty and sensitive and no telling what would have happened to them and me.

    I have no doubt that positive reinforcement would work well, at least for most things. But you can not compare a horse and dog. Dogs are so very intertwined with humans in their evolution. As far as I've discovered in having horses most of my life, you do need to show them who's boss. You don't have to be smacking them around and shutting their spirit down. But you can not be indecisive one little bit. They are the epitome of give and inch, they'll take a mile. I think they invented that.

    Ps....what you did, a little kicking/slapping with reins, I doubt very highly, did a thing to your horse. Like BB said, there can be lots of things going on, lots of factors that we couldn't possibly know. So therefore, it's vital to get a professional trainer to help you. Or sell this horse and get an easier horse. Don't let emotions make you keep a horse that isn't right for you. There's no shame in selling her to someone who is more accustom to working with this. Sometimes it's worth spending the extra dough and getting yourself a horse that has some good training on him/her. (a middle aged gelding might be a better choice than a mare) jmo....not tending to be as flighty.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2012
  17. Grab

    Grab Active Member

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    I wasn't presuming you were hauling off and kicking her like a soccer ball, and I'm well aware you use feet to guide a horse about. But clearly, kicking her sides harder and whipping more are not working, so it would be time to look into other methods and discovering why she's exhibiting the behavior.
     
  18. SevenSins

    SevenSins Guest

    What I don't understand is why you'd buy an OTTB mare with no PPE done and apparently NO test rides as someone who I presume has very little experience based on what you're saying and how you come across.

    It sounds like you either need a trainer, or you need to realize you bit off more than you can chew and sell the mare.
     
  19. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

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    Also if this is a recent OTTB she may never have been ridden on a trail. It often takes months of reschooling an OTTB to get them to be good riding horses. Of course there are those that walk off the track and right into the show ring or the trail.. but those are not common.

    Are you going hacking alone? Most race horses aren't ever worked where they are all by themselves.
     
  20. Greeneyedlette

    Greeneyedlette New Member

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    i have some experiences with horses and i have gotten a trainer we will be meeting here in an hour or so. When i go out on the trail she does fine the whole way, but when i go back towards the barn and turn her back around to the trail she doesnt wanna go back. ive ridden her with other horses down that trail and she still does the same thing. She does need some work which is why i took advice and got a trainer :) Thank you everyone
     

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