Hitting spanking slapping popping

Discussion in 'Dogs - General Dog Chat' started by Danefied, Oct 9, 2012.

  1. Taqroy

    Taqroy Active Member

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    I have done (and will do) just about anything to break up a dog fight. I'm not remotely proud of it, but I'd rather have an injured dog than a dead dog.

    I have never smacked one of my dogs when we're training. I have pulled on the leash, not hard, it's usually a quick frustration tug and it's always a sign to me that I need to stop and take a break before we keep moving. I did use leash pops and corrections years ago with my sister's dog when trying to work on LLW. It didn't work and I'm not proud of it. Oh, and Murphy had a prong collar for about six months shortly after I got him. I've poked Mu (in the haunches lol) to get her attention before - especially in situations where we can't just back up to get her under threshold.

    I dunno. I can't imagine smacking/beating/kicking a dog to get what I want, not with the knowledge I have now. My Dad was a very traditional trainer with our first family dog - she'd get into things, look "guilty", he'd beat her, and the next time she was left out with food, she'd eat it. Now when he leaves food out my mom tears HIM a new one because Max gets into it. It's hard to blame a dog for something that's actually your fault.
     
  2. Paige

    Paige Let it be

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    My old dog Spanky got his name for a reason. That dog LOVED a good butt spank in fun. However, so much as give him a dirty look and he'd roll over and pee. Soft dogs have taught me to not be heavy handed. Considering thats all I've dealt with since I am on the don't hit/strike/leash pop unless someone is in harms way and that will stop the behavior.

    I try not to judge others too harshly. I know it doesn't fit in over here and thats where my opinion, short of down right abuse, ends.
     
  3. yoko

    yoko New Member

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    For me if I get frustrated I stop and love on yoshi and we play or watch tv. I guess I just don't get the whole train or work with until snapping point.

    And I get being frustrated but how many get super frustrated with people? I would hope you could hold back from smacking a random person who had frustrated you. Why would you not do that for something/someone you love?
     
  4. Paige

    Paige Let it be

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    I walk away from anyone, person or animal, when I feel the need to get physical out of anger. I don't like that side of myself. I don't let it surface.
     
  5. sparks19

    sparks19 I'd rather be at Disney

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    I smack the dogs on the butt from time to time. Usually it's when we've played the "STOP RANDOMLY BARKING AT NOTHING YOU DUMB ASSES" all day long and then they get a spank on the butt and if they really press the issue I break out the water bottle. One of these days I'm certain Belle is going to go right through the sliding glass door. She THINKS she sees something and runs full tilt and jumps at the door with her front feet. ARGH she's going to get herself killed.

    So... yes I spank them on the butt from time to time
     
  6. Lizmo

    Lizmo Water Junkie

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    ^this.
     
  7. Emily

    Emily Rollin' with my bitches

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    Samesies. Management/crisis mode is different than training.

    As for the rest of it... I have a temper. I understand frustration. I mean, my god, I work at a daycare/boarding kennel. I have been, at times, frustrated, exhausted, in pain, and absolutely pushed past my threshold for sanity and rational behavior.

    We all do things we regret out of anger/frustration, and I am no exception and I am certainly no saint. But I view physical punishment as either the extreme spectrum of management (or self defense), or simply a mistake on the handler's part.

    I have gone through a steep learning curve regarding impulse control working in an environment where my buttons get pushed repeatedly by dogs that aren't mine and that I don't have the capacity to actually train. Losing my temper has never, ever given me any satisfaction in the end. Usually I just feel like a douche.

    My motto is to be the smarter animal, and defuse conflict instead of escalate it. Or at least to try. I have never, ever come to regret being patient and understanding. Ever. I have, without exception, regretted letting my temper dictate my interactions with animals.

    As for formal training, oh HELL no. It doesn't teach them anything except that you can and will cross that line with them, and to be scared of doing whatever it is they were doing when you whacked them. And I view using physical "cues" like popping and swatting as a total failure on my part as a trainer. If I can't get their attention without that, I have some seriously neglected foundation work.

    Beyond humane treatment of animals, I've not seen hitting/popping/spanking/slapping/jerking promote much in the way of learning or improved behavior. Lack of behavior, sometimes, but that's about it. And call me cold, but that's also a major motivation of mine. I want effective training strategies, not just those that make me feel better or stroke my ego.
     
  8. frostfell

    frostfell Kung Pow Fish

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    I will use physical punishment for Absolute Sin sort of things like getting into the trash or whatnot. Things that are unacceptable and need to be cut off harshly enough that they NEVER try it again. Everything else just gets verbal punishment because for the breed/dogs I have, its enough. Theyre pretty soft and listen really well. I definitely dont overdo the smacking around and I dont use it for ordinary day to day training "mistakes".
     
  9. Lyzelle

    Lyzelle New Member

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    I was always VERY physical with Zander as a pup. I got him when I was 12. I didn't know anything except what I saw on tv(CM). And I mean it when I say it was a CRASH COURSE. But I'm not necessarily proud of it, because looking back I know it SHOULDN'T have been that way. I don't know if I regret it, though, because he certainly never took me seriously and it was always fun playtime for him! LOL. He was born a brat.

    As I got older and participated in forums, I learned other ways of doing things and it's been a steady (although sometimes slow) accent. I've made my mistakes here and there, but I'm not necessarily proud of them. I just learned from the mistake and moved on.

    These days, Zander is still an ADHD kid. If I need to do something to get him out of a "OMGTHISANDTHATANDOMGTHAT" mode, I'll do it. It might be a tap on the shoulder, might be holding his mouth shut so he can actually hear me over himself yelling, or whatever. I get his attention in the least stimulating way possible so he can check himself and I can reward him for it. I don't use it as a correction, but just to get his attention so we can step back and redirect.

    And then, of course, there's the playtime. Zander is a dirty, dirty player. Not only is he rough, but he is SMART about his playtime attacks. So play time is all about body checks, mouthing(until he remembers he doesn't like anything in his mouth except food), him slapping me, jumping, weaving between my legs, pulling on my pants to knock me over, setting me up for a sneak attack, whatever. We play rough, and I probably "abuse" him more than most people ACTUALLY abuse their dogs. Complete with alpha rolls, biting, kneeing, and me black and blue by the end of it.
     
  10. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

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    Yes very much this. I have hit and kicked dogs that were about to kill or attack something (cat, other dog). Its not a matter of training, but a matter of life and limb prevention.
     
  11. Fran101

    Fran101 Resident fainting goat

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    To stop a dog from dangerous behavior (attacking another dog, person, injuring his/herself etc..) I will do just about anything. I HAVE smacked a dog pretty hard to stop a fight and yanked a dog away from lunging at another dog.
    I have also done the reflex "WTF ARE YOU DOING?" reflex a few times but it's more of a HEY! STOP DOING THAT redirection than it is to actually harm the animal (popping the leash to get dogs mouth out of street garbage, spanking on the butt to stop dog from growling at cat, etc..)

    I used to be really impatient and get frustrated easily when it came to training.. as Paige said, I don't like that side of myself. I have never looked back at a moment where I LOST IT (yelling, being hurtful, spanking, leash popping and other just negative dog training things) and felt good about it. So I try my hardest to never let that side of me surface. I'm proud to say it hasn't happened in a long long time.
    I don't personally think any of it is ok or needed. I prefer to have a really positive working relationship with my dog, where I'm a source of fun..not a source of fear. Animals are far too smart to have to resort to hitting and yelling and slapping to train them IMO if aquariums, zoos etc.. can train WILD ANIMALS using 100% positive methods.. why shouldn't I with my dog?

    Like with spanking kids, I'm not saying all of it is abuse. I'm just saying it isn't necessary. Kids, animals etc.. they are much more intelligent when we give them credit for and the relationship we have with them and who they grow up to be is much more affected by how we teach them then we realize.. and I don't think creating kind, intelligent, loving, compassionate natures are ever conducive with hitting or using fear and dominance as a teaching method.
     
  12. *blackrose

    *blackrose "I'm kupo for kupo nuts!"

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    I've spanked/popped mine a few times out of reflex. Typically when they were being idiots and aggressing at something/someone/me. I don't think I ever actively thought, "I'm going to spank the dog" in those instances, it was just like a "Holy Crap! *smack*" reaction, life if someone was to scare you and you smack them on the face.

    I have "spanked" (hard butt tap - I wouldn't call it a spank) Chloe when she is being a turd and being growly over a cat dish. We're passed the point of her actively biting due to a resource, it is more like she's scarfing down cat food/cat poop/trash/whatever as fast as she can and instead of pushing my luck and approaching her head on I go up behind her and "smack" her on the butt to get her to move along.
    I'll also do the same kind of "smack" to her muzzle when she is being a turd and won't stop barking. Again, it isn't anything remotely hard...kind of like a head thunk to your immature sibling who is being a dork.

    All of the dogs get beat when we play (except for Gracie because she doesn't like it). They get "smacked", "kicked", thrown, body slammed, tackled, etc., etc. and they love it. Cooper's favorite thing in the world is to be booted with a socked foot. LOL
     
  13. Taqroy

    Taqroy Active Member

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    Well why don't you just say everything I was trying to say in a much clearer and more eloquent fashion. Show off. :lol-sign:
     
  14. Emily

    Emily Rollin' with my bitches

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    Well you know, I used my big girl vocab. Like "douche". :lol-sign:
     
  15. Taqroy

    Taqroy Active Member

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    Hahahaha! If douche isn't a grown up word I don't wanna be a grown up. :cool:
     
  16. Fran101

    Fran101 Resident fainting goat

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    This! Especially the bit in bold
     
  17. SaraB

    SaraB New Member

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    Having a human reactive great dane did result in me having to be a bit more physical at times than I have ever been with other dogs. Mostly pushing/pulling/grabbing to get him out of a scary situation before we had completely figured out thresholds/triggers. Never hitting. Honestly, the sheer size of him didn't lend me very many options, I couldn't just walk him out of a situation. I never felt good about it, I hated that I had to do it and was so very thankful when LAT and emergency u-turns were usable.

    However, like others said, this was managing a crisis not training. If I would've used physical force to train the reactivity out of him, I can guarantee that would've ended badly.
     
  18. Shakou

    Shakou New Member

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    This.
     
  19. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    Did he ever arrive? I'm guessing he was too busy spinning in circles barking.

    Yeah, I've totally intimidated, stomped at, and yelled at my dogs out of frustration in the past. I don't take pride in it and make no excuses.

    I figure the glory is in the progress.
     
  20. Emily

    Emily Rollin' with my bitches

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    Took me 3 reads, going, "WTF is she talking about?" Then I got it. :rofl1:
     

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