Herding or working dog?

Discussion in 'The Dog Breeds' started by staffanatic, Dec 23, 2012.

  1. jenv101

    jenv101 Bite Club

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    I haven't read the whole thread but just wanted to add my two cents regarding this. My two are from the same parents and are on completely opposite ends of the spectrum in almost every way, so I totally agree that even within litters there can be huge differences.

    Riley is a very difficult dog, inheriting almost all of the 'negatives' it seems. DR, doesn't like strangers, prey drive through the roof (especially for real animals), but very low confidence and very easily stressed. If you are a part of his family circle he loves you but it takes a very long time to earn his trust.

    Aura is near perfect in comparison and could easily make a nice companion/pet if that is all she was offered. She loves everyone, human or animal, and I don't think she would ever bite in defense. She still has the high energy but is easily satisfied with balls/toys and any attention you want to shower on her.
     
  2. smeagle

    smeagle New Member

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    Totally agree with you on the above :)

    That's interesting as over here I'd say the opposite, it's getting harder and harder to find a good working GSD, which is why police and other services are working with and breeding their own Malinois more and more.

    Just to clarify, I'm not at all saying that there aren't Mals out there like that, of course there are, sorry if it seemed like I was saying there wasn't. I think if you know what you are looking for and know the lines well, you can find a good Mal and you will know what you are getting.

    I agree totally that even within a litter there can be variation, but if the lines and breeder are good, the amount of variation should be minor.
     
  3. Aleron

    Aleron New Member

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    While there are a lot of factors on why Mals have gained popularity over GSDs for police work, not being able to find GSds who are suitable for the work isn't generally one of them. Unless working bred GSDs are rare in Australia? Often Mals are a better value because they can be gotten cheaper, have longer working lifespans and don't have nearly the risk things like HD or bloat that GSDs do. I've seen departments around here switch to Mals from GSDs, who have both Mals and GSDs and ones who had Mals and now have GSDs again.


    I do agree with this. I also think that if traits like being reactive, guardy, suspicious of strangers, prey driven, etc are deal breakers for you then this probably isn't the right breed for you because many have those traits to some degree. It really just depends on what you personally enjoy in a dog and what you like to do with your dog.
     
  4. Teriawef

    Teriawef Guest

    I am sorry, that has interfered... At me a similar situation. I invite to discussion. Write here or in PM.
     
  5. Kootenay

    Kootenay Active Member

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    I was very interested reading through this thread, as I am considering a mal for my next dog (in about a year or so). It's great to hear what everyone has to say.

    This is the breeder I'm looking at - http://www.malingerkennels.com/home.cfm

    (is it ok to post that link? I notice people don't usually post breeder links here, is there a reason for that?)

    They seem to focus on Mals that are nice and balanced, and after talking to many puppy owners it seems like they do really produce dogs that are good active companions as well as being totally able to participate in any sport (and conformation showing as well). I've been very encouraged by talking to the breeder and to other owners.

    That being said, I'm still taking into account all the possible negatives that could come with the breed!
     
  6. Linds

    Linds Twin 2

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    I just wanted to squee over this again!! So excited for you!

    Mostly just because most/all of these breeders aren't on the board so they can't defend themselves if things go south and since everyone looks for different things in breeders it's not unheard of for people to nit pick/not approve of breeders posted.
     
  7. milos_mommy

    milos_mommy Active Member

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    People don't post breeder links because Chazzers are FREAKIN' nuts :rofl1:. There are no rules against it, people just don't want to hear others nitpick and bash their breeder choice. I've had people PM me (completely unwarranted, I've never been seeking a puppy or asked their opinion) lists of their problems with breeders who have been longtime members of Chaz when they have a litter. If I post something like "I know that puppy will grow up to be a great dog!" or "She looks like an agility star in the making" I get PMs that are like "Do you even know ANYTHING about her breeding program? The parents only have XYZ titles and that's not really very impressive and the stud's great-great-uncle only scored fair on his OFA". This has happened like 3 times.

    SO, aside from my "chazzers are nuts" rant...my only concerns with that Mal breeder would be the amount of dogs they have/breed. It looks like maybe the list of their dogs aren't all dogs they currently own, though...maybe all the dogs they've bred? That's kind of a personal concern, too...I want to look for a breeder who absolutely has the time and energy to follow up on all their puppies and put 110% into every single litter, and many people can't do that with 3 litters a year, but I'm sure some can. I'd question if all the pups were born and raised in the home, but again, I don't think it makes them a bad breeder if they breed the pups in a kennel environment, just something that has pros and cons and I'd not personally want.

    Also, Mals come in blue?!?
     
  8. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    Malinois can come in blue, yes, but it's not an ideal and not something to be bred for.

    People will buy what they'll buy but anyone propping a dog for color and not achievements hurts my heart.

    Sucks to see the breed follow in pit bull steps but I worry it is inevitable.
     
  9. Oko

    Oko Silence, peasants.

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    I clicked on a random female dog in their section, and it is indeed co-owned, so they don't properly own all of the ones that they list, so I think that 1 concern isn't necessary.
     
  10. DJEtzel

    DJEtzel New Member

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    Want mine? ;)

    My BC is 6 months old and has been rough and tumbling with my Pit (47lbs) and GSD (90lbs) since he was 7 weeks old. Perhaps finding a different line BC could soothe your worries about SSA/DA AND the hardness/confidence of the dog?

    This is the case with Frag as well and I think Recon will be developing the same way.

    My GSD started becoming "dominant" at around 2 years, he's 3 and a half now... and would posture other dogs, kind of start looking to pick a fight with random males of any size. (Ironically, right after he got neutered!) If he didn't have a care for a human, I'm sure this would have developed into same sex aggression... however, when I speak he listens, so any dominant behavior is instantly verbally corrected/moved away from. This is the great thing about biddable dogs!
     
  11. Aleron

    Aleron New Member

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    This is an excellent "interview" for potential breeders. It is aimed towards Groenendael but applies to any sort of Belgian. You may find it helpful in trying to choose a breeder.

    http://www.kristen.nelson.us/BSDFAQ/BSDFAQ/
     
  12. Kootenay

    Kootenay Active Member

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    I see, that makes sense I guess. Hopefully I won't regret posting the link then!

    And yes almost ALL the breeding dogs are co-owned, no breeding dog is kenneled they all live as pets in a home. The main breeder has I believe 5 or 6 dogs, all the rest are co-owns.

    And they don't breed FOR the colour blue but it does crop up in their lines sometimes. All dogs are of course health tested and titled in something before being bred from (and there are many very successful working dogs produced as well as the more "active companion" type pups).
     
  13. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    I am missing the health testing and sport titles on many breedings, can you point them out? I see one with some basic obed stuff which is cool but many without anything.

    Why this breeder over others? 1,500 is actually pretty expensive for a pet with soft sport potential considering many well bred Belgians go for 600-1,000.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2013
  14. Kootenay

    Kootenay Active Member

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    Many of the dogs listed haven't been used for breeding yet but will potentially after titling/testing. I'm not sure of all the titles on the dogs on the planned litters page (and not all those litters are confirmed), I know two are drug detection dogs, agility titles on some others (you are right, they aren't listed on that page, I'm not sure why). It seems not everything is listed but I know the breeder has said on numerous occasions that dogs get titled before actually breeding. This would of course be something I would look further into/verify before buying.

    I'm not set on this breeder by any means BUT I have heard really great things from all the puppy owners that I have talked to, and it sounds like they frequently produce just the kind of dog that I would be looking for - which not all Mal breeders seem to.

    What breeders would you recommend? I'd be looking for mainly an active companion, but also want to participate in agility, obedience, disc, and potentially schutzhund.
     
  15. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    I would start with Avalon and Carousel. Have you peeked around about them yet?

    Additionally I presume my ideal in the breed would not suit you but Stafinois and Aleron would be fantastic people to contact for reputable breeders with a lesser edge(less "work" focused, more soft sport) as an ideal.
     
  16. Kootenay

    Kootenay Active Member

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    Thank you :) Yes I have looked at Carousel before but not Avalon, and I couldn't actually find anything about them when I did a search just now.
     
  17. stafinois

    stafinois Professional Nerd

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    This.

    I have an Avonlea dog. Ann has produced multiple MACHs, OTCHs, herding champions, and at least one tracking champion. My dog is bombproof and has a littermate brother doing well in IPO. I highly recommend her dogs.
     
  18. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    Avonlea, sorry, I love Stan. I would totally look to them for a dog. Plus he's adorable.

    Thanks for your input.
     
  19. Kootenay

    Kootenay Active Member

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    Great, thanks for the recommendation. I just checked out their website, couldn't find any info on their individual dogs, though.
     
  20. stafinois

    stafinois Professional Nerd

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    Yeah, her website isn't the best. She's really modest about her dogs' accomplishments, never one to gloat or brag. Your best bet is to just email her. She really does it for the love of the dogs and the breed.
     

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