Herding or working dog?

Discussion in 'The Dog Breeds' started by staffanatic, Dec 23, 2012.

  1. staffanatic

    staffanatic New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2012
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ok, i am looking to you wonderfully knowledgeable people for help and insight.

    If i was to want a dog that's:
    protective
    intelligent
    very biddable (like a border collie)
    strong work ethic
    level headed, low anxiety
    off switch
    40 - 60lbs

    What would you suggest?
     
  2. Aleron

    Aleron New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2011
    Messages:
    2,269
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    several
    Location:
    NE Ohio
    Home Page:
    The right GSD? Your list described my Jora, a German showline girl with some solid workers in her pedigree. And many Getman working line dogs I've known.
     
  3. Saeleofu

    Saeleofu Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2009
    Messages:
    9,036
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    I'm going to have to agree with this. you definitely can find GSDs that small. A good, stable GSD really ought to have all those other characteristics, too.
     
  4. FG167

    FG167 New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2012
    Messages:
    2,709
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    3
    Location:
    Jefferson, GA
    My dog is this and this small and I <3 him!
     
  5. Aleron

    Aleron New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2011
    Messages:
    2,269
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    several
    Location:
    NE Ohio
    Home Page:
    Really 60ish lbs is not uncommon for GSD bitches and smaller males. Jora was right about 60lbs and was 23" tall, so right in the middle of the height standard. She wasn't heavy or fine boned but just right. I'd avoid puppies from real heavy boned dogs and look for litters out of smaller or moderate sized parents. I don't think that would be all that hard to find in working lines.
     
  6. Red Chrome

    Red Chrome New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,568
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I think you can find that in a GSD. I love the working line dogs but they do tend to run bigger than that in the lines I like. However, I have seen some very nice small females and males. My friend has a 65 pound powerhouse of a male.
     
  7. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    Messages:
    8,893
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    2 Pit bulls and 2 Malinois, We like to stay busy.
    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    Home Page:
    I think the right GSD sounds right, get a clone of Kastle. I can then covet it.

    I also don't think the right Belgian is a bad idea, because we've talked before, however this list does say nice moderate GSD to me.
     
  8. Aleron

    Aleron New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2011
    Messages:
    2,269
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    several
    Location:
    NE Ohio
    Home Page:
    You're probably right, the right Belgian could work and that size is easier to get in them. But yeah, GSD was what jumped out when I read the list.
     
  9. Red Chrome

    Red Chrome New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,568
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I know some German Showline breeders that produce the exact kinda dog you are looking for. I'll send you some links. The working lines I have contact with seem to be a bit harder to live with. Moreso because you have to work at getting an off switch rather than them having a semi natural one. It can be done and I am seeing improvement in the latest litters I have seen but certain lines tend to run more towards what you want naturally.

    I'd stay away from pure Czech lines and West German Working lines. I'd look towards more DDR crosses with the above 2 lines. The DDR dogs seem to have more natural off switches in my experience.

    A few breeders I'd recommend...
    www.vomhaushuro.com I have never met a dog from here but I trust this breeder, she produces nice showline dogs that can and do work!
    www.wildhauskennels.com I know a bitch from this kennel that is a perfect match for my friend's home. Very solid nice dog with good drive but able to chill out.
    www.schraderhausk9.com I train with a bitch from here and know several of her other dogs that do SAR. They are all very nice stable, balanced dogs. I highly recommend her.
    www.timberhausk-9.com I have a friend with a wonderful bitch from here that is amazing, great in the house and good in training.
    http://kolibrivineyard.com/German_Shepherds.html I highly recommend Donna's dogs, they are wonderful and seem to be very balanced in drives as well as having an off switch. Her dogs do everything from SAR to Therapy work and are more than capable of doing Schutzhund. Size may be a bit bigger than your ideal but she produces very nice standard dogs.

    I think you could easily find what you are looking for from one of those breeders.
     
  10. staffanatic

    staffanatic New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2012
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Thanks for the input everyone!

    I've been bouncing back and forth between Mal and GSD for a while. There is currently no room at the inn, but i'm glad that i'm on the right path.

    I really miss working with my border collie, we had an awesome training partnership. However, he got bullied a lot by my other dogs and was generally miserable at my house. He's much happier with my bff and her submissive apbt.

    Then there's Ash (ACD) who fits in the pack, but definitely doesn't have the work ethic or biddability of a BC.

    But there's the high probability i just need a Sloan clone. i really do adore her.

    Or a really mean and oversized BC. i'd totally take that.
     
  11. milos_mommy

    milos_mommy Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2006
    Messages:
    15,349
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    My first thought was an aussie....I know most working-bred ones have a good protective instinct.
     
  12. Aleron

    Aleron New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2011
    Messages:
    2,269
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    several
    Location:
    NE Ohio
    Home Page:
    This is the breeder I will get a puppy from when/if I get another GSD:

    http://www.vomhausweinbrand.com/

    Awesome, versatile, sound, intense workers but great family dogs too. All the breeding dogs are house dogs, worked/titled and just really what I picture a good GSD to be. Puppies from this breeder have gone to be police dogs, SchH dogs, service dogs (a couple for autistic children), performance/obedience dogs and pets.

    The right German showline could work for you too. Jora was German showlines and was very much what I consider to be an ideal GSD. I would now go for working lines, likely West German or a combination of working/show because I think it'd be easier to find what I want in those lines. I also just don't prefer the structure or look of many of the modern German Showlines. I'd have to find another one built like Jora - not heavy boned, only a slight roach back and even though it shouldn't matter the head/expression have to be right for me. It is really important to me that they have the classic, characteristic intelligent GSD expression and I see a lot of GSDs from all different lines that just...don't. That isn't to say that the heads/expressions I dislike aren't perfect or beautiful to other people. Same with the heavy boned dogs or the dogs with excessive roach backs. There's a lot of room in GSDs for personal preferences :)

    I personally have been less impressed with the DDR line dogs I've been around. I think it's important that if you decide to get a GSD, you try to get out and see as many different lines/breeder's dogs as possible. It's fine and good to get other's opinions on what the "best breeder/lines would be" and how such and such a line is or isn't but it's important to see for yourself what the dogs are like to make a choice about what would be best for you.

    One potential hang up I guess is that GSDs are as a breed, regardless of lines prone to same sex dog aggression with household dogs. You mention your BC was harassed by your dogs. I'd say that is very unlikely to happen with a GSD but unless all of your dogs are male or all female and you can get an opposite sex GSD, there is always potential for the GSD to mature into a dog who has to be separated from other same sex dogs.
     
  13. staffanatic

    staffanatic New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2012
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Milos mommy, i considered them... but i wasn't sure about protectiveness and ability to live with amstafs. These guys are like bulls in a china shop. Full contact family! lol

    Thank you Nikki! I do worry about DA, but only because i have these amstafs. I'd like my "good" breed to be sorta what the bulls lack. i've been really missing my Border collie the past few days. i think mainly because he really was such an amazing partner in training and sports. He tried so hard to make me happy, even when he was uncomfortable (such as climbing the agility equipment, which is why we never did agility.) But these bulls were just too rowdy for him. They didn't pick on him, they actually tried a few times to soothe and comfort him. But 50lbs of muscle climbing on you, kissing you and trying to snuggle you isn't everyone's idea of comfort lol He's much happier with my bff's pit bull who isn't so "full contact" with love, affection and play.

    My BC was my only dog as an adult that i had to rehome. He is much much happier now, but it's still hard on me at times. I really love him and miss him. And i want to make sure my next "good" dog will be happy in my pack and be a good fit. Because as much as i've tried to get away from these amstafs, they have my heart and i'll always have a few!

    Thanks to everyone for their input. i really appreciate it!
     
  14. stafinois

    stafinois Professional Nerd

    Joined:
    May 11, 2009
    Messages:
    1,617
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Mayberry
    Home Page:
    You want Stan! Except that Stan is not protective :O
     
  15. staffanatic

    staffanatic New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2012
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    ha ha ha, i DO want Stan. AND Sloan!

    But what if i end up with a Harry or Backup! :-o
     
  16. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    Messages:
    8,893
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    2 Pit bulls and 2 Malinois, We like to stay busy.
    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    Home Page:
    A very, very reasonable concern. lol
     
  17. Flyinsbt

    Flyinsbt New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2012
    Messages:
    886
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    3
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Aussies can be pretty boisterous players, actually, so that might be a good choice.
     
  18. BlackPuppy

    BlackPuppy Owned by Belgians

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2006
    Messages:
    674
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I would say a Belgian Tervuren. My Belgians practically trained themselves. My Dutch is a lot more work,but we are getting there. The article says high energy, but the ones I see all the time at training classes and friend's homes are not what I would call high energy. No more than a GSD. And nothing like a Malinois! :eek:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_Shepherd_Dog_(Tervuren)

    Or the black dog if you are particial to black, but I've seen better temperaments in the Tervs I've met.
     
  19. milos_mommy

    milos_mommy Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2006
    Messages:
    15,349
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    My friend's aussie, who's a little stockier and way less aloof than most working bred aussies (she's from show/pet lines) is REALLY boisterous and way too much for a lot of other dogs. She gets along best with some rowdy pit bulls and shepherd mixes we know.

    BCs are sheepdogs, and can be a lot softer than aussies in my limited experience. Aussies are cattledogs. In general, I think cattle dogs run a lot hardier and tougher than sheep dogs. Zoom's aussie Sawyer is described very similar (if not exactly the same) as what you're looking for, I think.
     
  20. Kilter

    Kilter New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2012
    Messages:
    536
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    That's been my border collies, the boys anyway. Level headed but with some goofy, nothing major (if Ticket doesn't have something to do he just herds the cat/fish). He is protective as far as people coming to the door, sounds tough, but then switches to goofball wigglebutt the second I tell him it's fine. But I don't know that it's a common border collie thing with every line.
     

Share This Page