I don't find herding breeds difficult to live with at all. At least not certain breeds but those are my breeds of choice. We fit well. I'd be much more awkward living with the majority of labs even if the energy level was the same. I'm a Border Collie gal through and through. Give me a hyper one or a lazy one and I make iet work. Give me something else and I just feel awkward and like I can't meet that dog's needs as well because it isn't second nature.
Herding breeds
- Thread starter Laurelin
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I like herding breeds because in a lot of ways they ARN'T difficult.
Yes, all ours comes with their own challenges - I'm the first to say I can struggle with Quinn at times, there are plenty of people I would say should never have a dog like her. She's by no means been an "easy" dog but the things she throws at me are the things I like working through. And I know that with stimulation, excercise, plenty of food and a place to sleep everyday she's pretty easy to live with.
Give me a spitz breed or a hard headed terrier though and I would struggle a lot more.
Yes, all ours comes with their own challenges - I'm the first to say I can struggle with Quinn at times, there are plenty of people I would say should never have a dog like her. She's by no means been an "easy" dog but the things she throws at me are the things I like working through. And I know that with stimulation, excercise, plenty of food and a place to sleep everyday she's pretty easy to live with.
Give me a spitz breed or a hard headed terrier though and I would struggle a lot more.
Are they easy to train? Largely.
Are they easy to live with? Nope. They have endless energy, less than awesome off-switches, prone to obsessive behaviors, can be less than socially normal (not your stereotypical golden), can be smarter than you, and can be extremely forceful.
Are they alone in this? Nope. Most people have no ability, desire, or reason to own a true blue pit bull either. My client with a Kishu Inu and a Hokkaido Inu bewilders me. They are hard to work with, they have tons of quirks, they howl all of the time, they can be extremely snarky and even more extremely hard to motivate. I also have a client who desperately wants to do agility but she has a shiba inu and well, she's just... upitcreek.
Would I have it any other way? Nope.
Are we being elitist? Some yes, some no. Some of us are making an effort to protect our breeds, some are proud, some are serious.
I don't believe in the slightest it's a matter of wrong dog. I know for a fact my dogs are hard to own but they are perfect for us.
Are they easy to live with? Nope. They have endless energy, less than awesome off-switches, prone to obsessive behaviors, can be less than socially normal (not your stereotypical golden), can be smarter than you, and can be extremely forceful.
Are they alone in this? Nope. Most people have no ability, desire, or reason to own a true blue pit bull either. My client with a Kishu Inu and a Hokkaido Inu bewilders me. They are hard to work with, they have tons of quirks, they howl all of the time, they can be extremely snarky and even more extremely hard to motivate. I also have a client who desperately wants to do agility but she has a shiba inu and well, she's just... upitcreek.
Would I have it any other way? Nope.
Are we being elitist? Some yes, some no. Some of us are making an effort to protect our breeds, some are proud, some are serious.
I don't believe in the slightest it's a matter of wrong dog. I know for a fact my dogs are hard to own but they are perfect for us.
Most seminars I go to (unless they are herding clinics) are dominated by showie BC's. The last one we were at, my mother had Poppy out and some people were asking about Koolies, she said "they're a working breed, a bit less nuts than a border collie" everyone laughed and someone said "you've just offended half the people here" - Mum pointed out she had to live with one and everyone just sort of went "oh, working border collie"
Quinn's just come into heat, she's all flirty and silly but she looks ridiculous, we've been describing her as a "body builder in a bikini wearing a strap on" - Buster is a little intimidated by this woman that wants to be his girlfriend. lol
"Quirky, intelligent and forceful" is exactly how I'd describe her (thanks Adrianne) and I usually do list her bad points before her good points to the general public if they ask about her just because I hate to think what would happen to a dog like her in a home that didn't go above and beyond to provide for her.
Quinn's just come into heat, she's all flirty and silly but she looks ridiculous, we've been describing her as a "body builder in a bikini wearing a strap on" - Buster is a little intimidated by this woman that wants to be his girlfriend. lol
"Quirky, intelligent and forceful" is exactly how I'd describe her (thanks Adrianne) and I usually do list her bad points before her good points to the general public if they ask about her just because I hate to think what would happen to a dog like her in a home that didn't go above and beyond to provide for her.
I think Elsie is extremely easy to live with. She's a super easy dog... for me. I do warn folks that meet her once and 'want one' though, because during finals weeks, or when I've been super busy, she becomes decidedly less easy to live with. And frankly, most people I know don't want to spend 1-4 hours a day interacting directly with their dog... but that doesn't mean that herding dogs are harder than other dogs. Just that, Elsie's a very soft, very quirky dog, and in a lot of homes, she'd be either a hot mess or a danger.
So I can understand the urge to warn people off your breed.
So I can understand the urge to warn people off your breed.
To me, people play up the energy too much. If herding dogs in general have issues, I'd place it more on the very common neurotic behaviors and poor sociability (DA/reactivity). Buster is a bit of a nightmare in the suburbs, and no amount of running is going to fix that. He'd be a pretty easy dog on land though, easier than the retriever I have.
As a group, I think it is fair to say they are more likely to be reactive than other groups. On the other hand, they're a lot more willing to work and listen to their owner than the dogs in a lot of other groups.
I keep saying to myself, NO MORE HERDING dogs unless I have 3 acres (10... 100 would be better
) Going the rescue route, I think I'll have an easier time finding a dog who doesn't think the world is ending if the neighbor uses their garage door in another group.
Maybe a husky. Training sit and loose leash walking might be 2 or 3 times harder, and a spitz group dog might never be good off leash. In the suburbs though there aren't too many off leash opportunities, so its a give and take between a person and a situation. I love the instant reaction to a command that Buster and many herding dogs have... but it can be a bit of trouble when they react to something else!
As a group, I think it is fair to say they are more likely to be reactive than other groups. On the other hand, they're a lot more willing to work and listen to their owner than the dogs in a lot of other groups.
I keep saying to myself, NO MORE HERDING dogs unless I have 3 acres (10... 100 would be better
) Going the rescue route, I think I'll have an easier time finding a dog who doesn't think the world is ending if the neighbor uses their garage door in another group. Maybe a husky. Training sit and loose leash walking might be 2 or 3 times harder, and a spitz group dog might never be good off leash. In the suburbs though there aren't too many off leash opportunities, so its a give and take between a person and a situation. I love the instant reaction to a command that Buster and many herding dogs have... but it can be a bit of trouble when they react to something else!
I see this a lot. Even people that own one type of herding breed are actively discouraged from getting a different breed. I hate to say it, but especially owning GSDs I get it from Malinois owners a lot. I couldn't POSSIBLY know what it's like to own a Mal because GSDs just "don't compare" and it's honestly quite f*cking offensive. I know what kind of dog I can handle, thanks.
I usually tell them (these are all people in real life, in various clubs that I've tried btw) that Knox is a Malinois hiding in a GSD body. He's even Mal sized. They just seem to have a very high horse. What I've done twice now is let them talk it up and then bring Knox out to work. He works very very similarly to Mals, including drive leaking out of his ears and the screaming Mals seem to have perfected, then let their decoy work him. They're all usually impressed, but I don't want to deal with that attitude prevalent in the club and have to prove something every time we hit the field. So I've ended up going back to working Schtuzhund/IPO instead of attempting Ringsport because it's rather disheartening to have a dog you know can do the work and continually being told he can't because he's not a Malinois.
Also, every time you post a video of your Lemur it strikes me how similar they both are. Knox is not *quite* as OCD about the pacing, but he will wander around with a kong stuffed in his mouth and refuse food when he's got his ball the exact same way.
Also, every time you post a video of your Lemur it strikes me how similar they both are. Knox is not *quite* as OCD about the pacing, but he will wander around with a kong stuffed in his mouth and refuse food when he's got his ball the exact same way.
You know, I think they are just easier to motivate than many other breeds. Romeo is legitimately interested in what I'm doing, doesn't ask questions, just wants to do stuff with me. I was just commenting the other day that ALL the other dogs go outside...they spend time walking around, sniffing the bushes, looking for critters. Romeo goes out, pees, and comes back up to stand by the door. If I'm outside, he's throwing the ball at me. Inside, he lays down next to me maybe with his chin on the floor but he's wide awake. He always seems like he's waiting to go do something.
Every breed seems to have it's quirks and warnings though. I know I find terriers impossible.
Every breed seems to have it's quirks and warnings though. I know I find terriers impossible.
Hard to live with is one of those things that varies from person to person. My family members often ask how I live with Mia, but it's incredibly easy and natural for me. They, on the other hand, get very annoyed and frustrated by any tennis ball squeaking going on for more than a few minutes so her habit of squeaking a ball for hours drives them insane. They also get annoyed with the fact that she barks a lot and is very reactive and screamy to very minor stimuli. And they won't supervise her then get frustrated at the fact she chews things up. and they let her demand bark at them for hours then complain about it. And I could go on. Basically just the fact that she doesn't just chill all the time like the dogs they like do makes her hard.
None of that bothers me so we get along really really easily. Not saying she's the same as any other situation but I can see how 'hard' to one person is easy for another.
I actually got really annoyed the other day because my dad was describing his 'ideal dog' and how much better that kind of dog was and I finally had to say 'Your ideal dog is boring to me!' We just like totally different things in a dog.
None of that bothers me so we get along really really easily. Not saying she's the same as any other situation but I can see how 'hard' to one person is easy for another.
I actually got really annoyed the other day because my dad was describing his 'ideal dog' and how much better that kind of dog was and I finally had to say 'Your ideal dog is boring to me!' We just like totally different things in a dog.
I always wondered if I would REALLY be able to handle a GSD having a Chihuahua mix for my first dog that I've gotten to train and stuff... I've dreamed of having a GSD for years but after reading the things GSD people have said I wondered... But I just want an older (3+) dog from a rescue or shelter, not an imported working dog... Not for my first Shepherd, anyway.
Yeah, I've never thought the energy part would be that bad with most of the more intense herding breeds, and wasn't something that I worried about. It's the reactivity, the noise sensitivity, the quirkiness, etc that scares me poopless and is the reason I won't have an intense herding breed anytime soon. Too much chance to end up with something like Frodo, and I'd prefer death TYVM!!
And so I will have my OES.
And so I will have my OES.
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People have IMHO always kinda laughed off my descriptions of Judge and his high energy /drive levels. I think they think I am joking.
If I get the chance to meet them or it happens in person then I show them what I mean.
He is a lot like Backup in his pacing and stuff. He doesn't do circles but paces straight lines.
I will say he is more social than *most Mals I have met and heard of. Easier to train....uh...depends on the behavior. He is a really phenomenal dog. I steer people away from this breed all the ttime. I don't feel most people should own a pet rock let alone a High drive dog of any Breed.
If I get the chance to meet them or it happens in person then I show them what I mean.
He is a lot like Backup in his pacing and stuff. He doesn't do circles but paces straight lines.
I will say he is more social than *most Mals I have met and heard of. Easier to train....uh...depends on the behavior. He is a really phenomenal dog. I steer people away from this breed all the ttime. I don't feel most people should own a pet rock let alone a High drive dog of any Breed.
I don't know. Obviously there are a lot of differences between breeds etc but I got my first herding breed when I was 12 and he has a few quirks but personally I think he's the easiest dog to live with (barring Ozzy who sleeps 23 hours a day) out of them all. I also don't think I screwed him up too badly for knowing basically nothing about dogs and I am in no way an exceptional owner.
I think it really depends on the dog because each dog is going to be different and suited for different people. Personally I will be getting another herding breed. Maybe I'll be in for a huge shock but from what I have seen so far I don't think so. Although a lot of that is down to research, I know I couldn't handle a Mal but I also know I'd have no problem with a BC.
(sorry if this doesn't make sense, it's only 8am)
I think it really depends on the dog because each dog is going to be different and suited for different people. Personally I will be getting another herding breed. Maybe I'll be in for a huge shock but from what I have seen so far I don't think so. Although a lot of that is down to research, I know I couldn't handle a Mal but I also know I'd have no problem with a BC.
(sorry if this doesn't make sense, it's only 8am)
I hear a lot of people talk about herding dogs like they're nuts, too. Many herding breeds are relatively low key & have gentle, friendly temperaments. There are a few that are much more intense but it definitely depends on your personality and what you want in a dog. I do NOT want a "doggy" dog, if that makes sense. It doesn't! But, basically I'm trying to say, I don't want a dog who just romps around like "derrrrp I'm a dog. woof!" I appreciate intuitive, sensitive, thinking dogs. I like goofiness combined with brains and intensity and herding breeds fit my personality perfectly. I don't know if I'll venture out of the herding group ever, and I've had dogs from every group in my life, all nice dogs but none of them compare!
Honestly.... I would be MUCH more irritated and exhausted by the temperament & demands of sporting breeds. And Labs are by faaaar the #1 breed in the country and have the personality that the majority of people obviously value in a dog. I would get so frustrated by a Lab, even a well-bred Lab. Not that I don't love a few that I know, but I'd never want to live with one. I don't like a dog that OMG LOVES every dog/human/thing it encounters, which is what Labs, Goldens and other popular breeds are valued for. I want a dog who adores and focuses on me first, whose life revolves around me... and I enjoy a dog with a little sass. Hence my love for Corgis.
Honestly.... I would be MUCH more irritated and exhausted by the temperament & demands of sporting breeds. And Labs are by faaaar the #1 breed in the country and have the personality that the majority of people obviously value in a dog. I would get so frustrated by a Lab, even a well-bred Lab. Not that I don't love a few that I know, but I'd never want to live with one. I don't like a dog that OMG LOVES every dog/human/thing it encounters, which is what Labs, Goldens and other popular breeds are valued for. I want a dog who adores and focuses on me first, whose life revolves around me... and I enjoy a dog with a little sass.
Hence my love for Corgis.I feel the same way about Labs. I can adore them in small bits and pieces but tehy are not the kind of dogs I want to live with. I would LOVE to own a Pit Bull in the future but at the same time I am so attached to my herding type dogs I don't know if I could live happily with anything that isn't one. There is something very special to me about a lot of the herding breeds. Especially BCs.