Herding breeds

Discussion in 'Dogs - General Dog Chat' started by Laurelin, Jun 15, 2012.

  1. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    Lol, I'm going to get flamed for this hopefully I can word it right, but why do people make them out to be SO difficult? I see them so hyped up mostly on my other forum as these super insane dogs that only the very most dedicated can have and only if you exercise them all day long. All of them, not just certain breeds. But that they're all just difficult dogs because well... they're herding breeds and you know what that means. :confused:

    (Other forums kind of baffle me a lot of times)
     
  2. yoko

    yoko New Member

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    I'm not sure Lady who was a mix of two herding breeds was probably the easiest dog I have had. *yes yes I've only had three but still*

    I can understand making sure people know about their activity level and breed quirks but she wasn't the crazy insane always on task dog you would think she was if you went off of other peoples description.

    I think people forget dogs are individuals some times and just lump them all together.
     
  3. JessLough

    JessLough Love My Mutt

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    It's not only herding breeds. You pretty much have those people in every breed. It's ridiculous ;) though I think it's just how different people see things.... For example, some owners see Border Collies as a border collie first, I see them as a dog first :p

    That was a really bad explanation, haha sorry!
     
  4. JessLough

    JessLough Love My Mutt

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    ok, that's pretty much what I meant LOL
     
  5. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    It was really the statement that if you get a 'regular breed' dog then expect to put in X hours but if you get a herding breed you need to put in twice as much work. Just because. No thought to specific breeds involved and no thought to the individual involved.

    Someone should have told Mia she was supposed to be easier than my herding dogs. :p

    If there's anything that Nikki and Trey taught me or that Mia and Rose taught me, it's that two dogs of the same breed can be complete opposites in most every way.

    Don't get me wrong, I do think you can generalize to an extent and it can be helpful.
     
  6. Toller_08

    Toller_08 Active Member

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    It's people like them that terrified me as far as ever getting a herding breed myself. I feel that I have a lot of dog experience, with all sorts of different types of temperaments, but yet I was really afraid that a herding breed would be way too much for me. Which is stupid, because a few of the herding breeds are made up of everything I do like in a dog. But people talk about them like they're crazy, hyper, bouncing off the walls, barking, neurotic freaks that nobody can control unless you're going to get involved in a thousand different sports and run them for hours on end day after day after day. And what's even sillier about my thought process is that I had a Border Collie mix who pretty well acted like a Border Collie and she was by far the easiest dog I've ever gotten along with and lived with. We just clicked. So why I let people get to me and thought I'd be a terrible owner for a herding breed is beyond me.

    People say the same about Tollers, actually. But I didn't know they said all of those things otherwise I probably would've been afraid to get a Toller too. So I'm glad I didn't hear that until after I got mine.

    I think what it boils down to is that, among other things, herding breeds do tend to be quite busy, are thinkers, are generally incredibly intelligent, do often like to use their voices, etc. And all of that could spell disaster for an owner or a family who is unprepared.
     
  7. Beanie

    Beanie Clicker Cult Coordinator

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    It takes a certain kind of person to live with a herding breed, especially specific ones. That goes for many different dogs in different groups though. Most pet people would really, really dislike Payton and wouldn't be able to live with him. My parents don't like him. and sometimes they don't even like Georgie and she is their dog. (I am constantly prepared to one day have to take Georgie from them.)
    In one of my puppy classes there was a husky puppy. Not a herding breed, just another example to show it goes for a lot of dogs. MY KIND OF DOG for sure... a lot of dog for the people who owned him. They adopted him from a rescue and were considering returning him because he was too much dog. Everybody has their limit of what's too much dog.

    I think herding breeds tend to get a bad rep because they are kinda extra quirky LOL. When I was a kid my aunt and uncle adopted a border collie from the humane society, and when I told my dad I liked him, he said "those dogs are crazy." And we had a rough collie growing up. =P Border collies I think have it the worst. And of course certain border collie people don't help either. There was a thread on the border collie boards a few years ago asking if border collie people weren't actually lending to the poor reputation of the breed because they are always so worst case scenario with people and tend to actively encourage people not to get one...

    I think people also get into bad situations with them, like "oh collies are smart, it'll train itself" and they just rather leave the dog to it's own devices. And it doesn't go well LOL.
     
  8. *blackrose

    *blackrose "I'm kupo for kupo nuts!"

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    I've been told that herding breeds are difficult...but not because of energy or what have you, but because they are more prone to reactivity/bossiness/etc. Not that they require SO much more exercise, or SO much more socialization, or SO much more everything, they just tend to be a bit much temperament wise for novice handlers with little understanding of dog behavior or people who want an easy dog.
     
  9. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    I definitely think it does depend on the person's personality probably more so than the dog's personality in most cases. I find herders in general pretty easy. Shelties especially, even the highest drive ones I know are really about the easiest dog for me I can think of. Now, the terrier foster was a nightmare for me. No more energy than the papillons or the shelties but definitely just the wrong kind of dog for me.

    Then again I have Mia and I am the only person in my family that enjoyed Mia either. The rest of my family to be honest were not much suited to the shelties. My dad, stepmom, step-siblings are definitely more lab type people than I am.

    Many of the most well rounded dogs I've known have been herding type dogs with 'just pet' pretty laid back owners. It's always made me stop and think.

    I do think BCs have it the worst.
     
  10. Linds

    Linds Twin 2

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    This. So much this.

    I really do think a lot of people think "Ohh, I want an smart dog that will do a million tricks and I can play fetch with" and end up with a border collie. Or an ACD or even a Malinois. And then they are completely overwhelmed by that type of dog.

    And I don't think herders take those kind of living situations as in stride as some other breeds of similar energy and intelligence. Because of that I think it makes owners of herding breeds extra twitchy. I know with Koolies I do try to play it up sometimes because they are pretty and flashy and fun which can seem great until you are living with it. I personally don't find living with herding dogs hard at all. I enjoy it and would find a lot of other dogs more stressful, like Kaylee :p But they fit my personality.

    But, I really don't think it's unique to any breed or type of dog. And I do think there is this.....high horse? that herding breed people can get on. It seems like a cliquey group, but that could just be because I'm involved in that type so I see it more.
     
  11. yoko

    yoko New Member

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    This. I think that pretty much all dog owners who are active in the dog world do this. I think it's half being part of the clique and half trying to keep 'their' breed out of the hands of irresponsible owners.

    Now us mix owners... we're just confused.
     
  12. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    Oh I know I do that with Mia sometimes lol. She's not nearly as bad as I make her sound but she's also not an 'easy' dog by most peoples' standards. But she's not hard if you put time in to her.

    I do get that but I don't get how much generalizing people do for the herding group in particular. A collie, malinois, sheltie, and OES are pretty far apart from each other.
     
  13. Shai

    Shai & the Muttly Crew

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    This.

    This.

    And this too.



    I think part of it is that herding breeds tend to be popular for sport and as a result people who want to be "top" in their sport of choice get a herding breed even though they aren't a great match and end up really struggling. And since they are performance folks ofter that struggle ends up being very public in the form of frustrating screaming banshee dogs.

    But it's not just herding breeds. Gundog folks can be the same way. I've seen SO many people commenting that, for instance, FCRs are so over the top and so hard to train because they are high energy workaholics yet very soft...or that Labs are just impossible and so hard to own because they are crazed energy all day long...field golden, Weims, Vizslak, GSP, etc....in every case they have quite a rep and in every case people within the breed are sure their dogs take the most special and exceptional owners...in reality it's just that they need an owner who's the right match for the breed and individual...just like any dog...and that right match can take many many different forms.
     
  14. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    Linds you should try being the only person with a nonherder and the only person with a tiny dog at a training class. We've gotten some interesting looks on first days before. :D

    Are you telling me I'm not special? ;)
     
  15. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

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    It's always baffled me because they've always seemed easy to me.

    Maybe it's not that the dogs are hard to deal with, maybe it's more that it's an owner who picked the wrong dog?

    For me, Kharma -- definitely considered an extreme breed -- is the easiest dog I've ever lived with. That really includes Buffy and Shiva for that matter. Maybe if it's a good match the dog isn't "difficult?"
     
  16. Linds

    Linds Twin 2

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    You know, I'm typically the only one WITH a herder. And even in agility class there is a GSD but other than that Traveler is the only herder :yikes:
     
  17. Shai

    Shai & the Muttly Crew

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    Our class:
    4 BCs
    2 Aussies
    1 Dobe whose owner has put MACHs on 3-4 dogs
    1 Groenendael
    4 Shelties
    1 2 year old Flat-Coated Retriever

    :p


    You're every bit as special as you want to be :p
     
  18. Lizmo

    Lizmo Water Junkie

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    ^this.

    You just have to know the breed, simple. Border Collie-type dogs are super easy for me, but give me a Beagle and it's like pulling teeth.

    Personally, I don't understand why herding type dogs are labeled as quirky, hard, etc. But I sure don't question it with the general public. :) Whether it's training, breeding, whatever, Blaze is so easy! He's fun, he's cuddly, he's a listener, he's a go-anywhere type, he's quiet, he's fast, he's smart. He's just super easy for me. And most the herd-y dogs have been like that.

    Maybe the majority of the dogs I'm around are herding dogs, so I don't know any other easy? lol
     
  19. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    My first agility class with Mia was a corgi, an ACD, 2 Aussies, and a BC. And then Mia. :rofl1:

    Summer's first agility class was 3 BCs, an ACD mix, and two aussies. And then Summer and a JRT. Summer's second agility class was an Aussie, a BC, and a sheltie and a toy poodle.

    My class right now, my instructor has BCs and a Welsh sheepdog but the other dogs are all bully types and a JRT. Will be interesting to see what is in Summer's class starting next week.
     
  20. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    :D :D :D

    (stupid lower case needed)
     

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