Help me out here... GSDs
- Thread starter xpaeanx
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I don't think larger dogs can do the same as a 60 pounder. Maybe on a limited individual scale, but not as a general, global breed scale. There's a reason that larger dogs break down faster and are not as sought after as smaller ones. You don't hear stories of people taking their GSD's on a 20 mile run behind a horse to compete at a schutzhund trial then run back the 20 miles again after doing OB, protection, and tracking at the age of 10 years old, but they used to.
The breed didn't used to have to be "retired" from work by age 7 or 8 like they are today. There's a reason for the standard and I don't know why people think they know better. Trust me, I get hit by the 50 and 60 pounders just like I do the big ones. I know what they feel like. If I wanted a big heavy lug to just hang on and stop someone, i'd get a rottie. If I wanted a strong agile, rocket, climb up ladders, scale walls, work all day work past age 10 and live a long active life i'll take a "small" gsd, mal or dutchie. Bigger isn't better
measure your dog like this
http://www.sonic.net/~cdlcruz/GPCC/library/measure.htm
the height for a GSD bitch is 21.6- 23.6 inches tall, or if you like cm 55-60 cm
The breed didn't used to have to be "retired" from work by age 7 or 8 like they are today. There's a reason for the standard and I don't know why people think they know better. Trust me, I get hit by the 50 and 60 pounders just like I do the big ones. I know what they feel like. If I wanted a big heavy lug to just hang on and stop someone, i'd get a rottie. If I wanted a strong agile, rocket, climb up ladders, scale walls, work all day work past age 10 and live a long active life i'll take a "small" gsd, mal or dutchie. Bigger isn't better
measure your dog like this
http://www.sonic.net/~cdlcruz/GPCC/library/measure.htm
the height for a GSD bitch is 21.6- 23.6 inches tall, or if you like cm 55-60 cm
I have been reading about Dutch Shep. lately and I think they are very interesting....I wish there were more breeders around.
Even Dutchies seem to vary a lot in size. I think most of them are slightly larger than Mals but I seen one on TV doing a bitework demonstration and it was 90lbs....which I thought was way above standard.
Even Dutchies seem to vary a lot in size. I think most of them are slightly larger than Mals but I seen one on TV doing a bitework demonstration and it was 90lbs....which I thought was way above standard.
no they don't all last that long, but on a whole, general type scale, the smaller ones last longer. At least in my experience. It's just not as hard on a smaller dog.
Almost all of my experience is with people working within the standard for working dogs. When you start getting into other dogs that are obviously outside the standard the differences are huge, but that is a whole thread unto itself.
Dutchies are a nice breed, with limited experience. There aren't many around. The few i've been around have all been pretty nice, but nothing better or worse than any other working breed. I've seen a big range in the ones i've seen in terms of size and temperment, but like GSD's or Mal's.
Almost all of my experience is with people working within the standard for working dogs. When you start getting into other dogs that are obviously outside the standard the differences are huge, but that is a whole thread unto itself.
Dutchies are a nice breed, with limited experience. There aren't many around. The few i've been around have all been pretty nice, but nothing better or worse than any other working breed. I've seen a big range in the ones i've seen in terms of size and temperment, but like GSD's or Mal's.
I would just like to brag that my 8 yr old 65 lb mutt can do that run (not sure about the working part though). But she runs beside my horse on trailrides, some that have lasted well over 7 hours... and she STILL has energy when I get her home! I think she'll still be able to do it when she's 10 too, bc she hasn't shown any signs of slowing down.
Dutchies are pretty much just a brindle malinois, there shouldnt be much size varyance (if any).
Mals are usually slightly smaller when compared to a GSD however may be slightly different depending on what type of Belgian Shepherd you have. Correct me if im wrong but from my recolection Belgian Shepherds come down to what town they originated in in Belgium.
Mals are usually slightly smaller when compared to a GSD however may be slightly different depending on what type of Belgian Shepherd you have. Correct me if im wrong but from my recolection Belgian Shepherds come down to what town they originated in in Belgium.
I would just like to brag that my 8 yr old 65 lb mutt can do that run (not sure about the working part though). But she runs beside my horse on trailrides, some that have lasted well over 7 hours... and she STILL has energy when I get her home! I think she'll still be able to do it when she's 10 too, bc she hasn't shown any signs of slowing down.
And because he's gooooorgeous, here's a picture (he's about 32 pounds - so one of those energetic, never-stopping smaller dogs):
He's looking sheepish in this one because he was being told to lie down...he offered a paw instead, hoping it'd be good enough!
I'd really also like to know where your friend did her research,,
One way to put an end to the speculation,,is,,ask her who the breeder was..From that alone, I'm sure the gsd savvy people here could tell you what "type" she is, bloodlines etc, and whether she is just a plain FAT german shepherd..
I have had GSD's for almost 30 years and never have seen a female in good health, within standard size,,hit the 120# mark. Even a shiloh female probable wouldn't hit that weight.
I had a male at one point that was 125lbs and 32" at the shoulders,,he was not fat,,I kept him lean because of his size..
I would really like to know where this person got her 120# female...
diane
One way to put an end to the speculation,,is,,ask her who the breeder was..From that alone, I'm sure the gsd savvy people here could tell you what "type" she is, bloodlines etc, and whether she is just a plain FAT german shepherd..
I have had GSD's for almost 30 years and never have seen a female in good health, within standard size,,hit the 120# mark. Even a shiloh female probable wouldn't hit that weight.
I had a male at one point that was 125lbs and 32" at the shoulders,,he was not fat,,I kept him lean because of his size..
I would really like to know where this person got her 120# female...
diane
S
Yes, I am sure that is very true as well as with filas. I think it depends on body type. GSDs were never meant to be giant, so maybe thats why they do so much better at a smaller weight. Filas and presas have the body structure to be officiant at a much heavier weight. I am just guessing here, BTW. I am no expert.
Just my 0.02 (which doesn't count for much on the GSD front).
Willow is 9 years old now. She was adopted from the pound at 8-9 weeks. We figured when we pulled her out that she was a pure shepherd. We're not entirely sure, kind of suspect there may possibly be some malamute back there 3 or 4 generations ago, but she has made a fantastic SAR dog.
Her handler's only complaint has been that she is so large, that really she does tire more quickly than the lighter dogs...though SAR is a lot of endurance climbing up and down hills more than running full blast at people and slamming into them. A year ago (so 8 years old) her elbows started giving her problems so they are talking about retiring her now. If her elbows went out in the field, it would be a huge ordeal to carry a dog her size back to base.
She is 110 lbs trim.
And of course, being a huge female everybody under the sun wanted to breed to her, since she's "old style". They were always disappointed that she was spayed. Now that I think of it, could her elbow problems be stemming more from getting spayed at 8-9 weeks old than genetics? Just curious.
Once they were stopped by the someone who claimed he was the president of the local GSD breed club chapter, and he told them what lines she was out of and seemed really impressed, but they totally forgot what he said later. Oh well.
ETA: I've posted this before, but it's the only pic I have of her being athletic. She's about 10 lbs overweight in this pic though, because of her elbows limiting activity. It's back to a healthy level now.
Willow is 9 years old now. She was adopted from the pound at 8-9 weeks. We figured when we pulled her out that she was a pure shepherd. We're not entirely sure, kind of suspect there may possibly be some malamute back there 3 or 4 generations ago, but she has made a fantastic SAR dog.
Her handler's only complaint has been that she is so large, that really she does tire more quickly than the lighter dogs...though SAR is a lot of endurance climbing up and down hills more than running full blast at people and slamming into them. A year ago (so 8 years old) her elbows started giving her problems so they are talking about retiring her now. If her elbows went out in the field, it would be a huge ordeal to carry a dog her size back to base.
She is 110 lbs trim.
And of course, being a huge female everybody under the sun wanted to breed to her, since she's "old style".
They were always disappointed that she was spayed. Now that I think of it, could her elbow problems be stemming more from getting spayed at 8-9 weeks old than genetics? Just curious.Once they were stopped by the someone who claimed he was the president of the local GSD breed club chapter, and he told them what lines she was out of and seemed really impressed, but they totally forgot what he said later. Oh well.
ETA: I've posted this before, but it's the only pic I have of her being athletic. She's about 10 lbs overweight in this pic though, because of her elbows limiting activity. It's back to a healthy level now.
When the American Line GSD became so angulated someone out there knew they could make a great buck by breeding larger dogs with straight backs and refering to them as "old style".
When we're kids every dog seems bigger than they really are.
So now imagine that you're 40 and sitting in your living room watching Westminster and you see the now popular style of American Line GSD and it doesn't look anything like you remember your family dog from when you were 5. Heck it's so small and what's with those hind legs?
I do believe these "old style" GSDs are purebred, they're just breeding the dogs/bitches that the good folks spay/neuter because they're outside the size standard.
Take a peak at Yahoo sometime
1 - 10 of 598 for "old style german shepherd"
598 hits for old style german shepherd
When we're kids every dog seems bigger than they really are.
So now imagine that you're 40 and sitting in your living room watching Westminster and you see the now popular style of American Line GSD and it doesn't look anything like you remember your family dog from when you were 5. Heck it's so small and what's with those hind legs?
I do believe these "old style" GSDs are purebred, they're just breeding the dogs/bitches that the good folks spay/neuter because they're outside the size standard.
Take a peak at Yahoo sometime
1 - 10 of 598 for "old style german shepherd"
598 hits for old style german shepherd
Yes, I am sure that is very true as well as with filas. I think it depends on body type. GSDs were never meant to be giant, so maybe thats why they do so much better at a smaller weight. Filas and presas have the body structure to be officiant at a much heavier weight. I am just guessing here, BTW. I am no expert.
Dan, having had - and loved - both breeds, I can assure you that no GSD, no matter how well bred, is a match in stamina for a working Fila They were never meant to be. And you'd never believe how little fuel a working/farm bred Fila needs, especially in comparison!
Bimmer's the only one I've ever seen who came close, and he's part wolf!
They were never meant to be. And you'd never believe how little fuel a working/farm bred Fila needs, especially in comparison!Bimmer's the only one I've ever seen who came close, and he's part wolf!