Have you treated your dog for Yeast infection

Discussion in 'Dog Health Care' started by Bucket, Jan 23, 2005.

  1. Bucket

    Bucket New Member

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    I may have posted this question before and I do appreciate the info and I have visited the http://www.greatdanelady.com/articles/criteria_list_of_better_foods.htm and then linked to the site for Nzymes. Its a great site full of info. But the products reccomend are Soy protein based and my big concern is that the products are Soy Protein based and Soy is an Allergin. So I would prefer to not use something Soy based.

    Does anyone know of other products or ever hear of Berte's.

    Thanks so much
     
  2. Saje

    Saje Island dweller

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    I don't know what Berte's is but yogurt is the greatest thing to help with yeast infections (dogs and people). There is both dairy and soy (it's true) so get the dairy if you're worried. :)
     
  3. Bucket

    Bucket New Member

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    Thanks
    I keep her away from dairy as it upsets her tummy. She did Yogurt for a while.
    For the last 2 years she gets Prozyme mixed in with her food. Great stuff. But I wonder if a Probiotic added to the regimen would be good. Right now she is eating Canidae. She has had two ear infections which occured about a year ago and they were diagnosed as Yeast related. Since then I noticed she rubs her face and her feet really smell along with a body odor. She also has other minor symptoms that were on the list at the above sites.

    Berte's has a line of Probiotic's and vitamins. Wondering if anyone has tried them.
     
  4. Saje

    Saje Island dweller

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  5. Bucket

    Bucket New Member

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    Saje
    That is a wonderful site that I have added to my Fav's. Thanks for sharing.
     
  6. Saje

    Saje Island dweller

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    Glad it was helpful. :)
     
  7. balidog

    balidog balidoggie

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    yeast infections

    Hallo,
    for yeast infection you have to change your dogs diet, stop all carbohydrates.
    Best is also to stop commercial dog foods. Please see more detailed info here:
    Dogs Yeast Infections

    Most skin disorders are immune system related, here is a holistic supplement to boost the immune system:

    nutritional vitamin supplement
     
  8. crazydog

    crazydog Andy

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    on the site that saje posted, it said to avoid feeding your dog all grains with rice, wheat, etc) so then why does alot of people on here feed their dogs rice sometimes. or am i being mistaken?
     
  9. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

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    It's one of those things that vets tell you to feed when a dog is having trouble keeping food down. Personally, that's the very time I would avoid feeding it, as it isn't easily digested by dogs.

    When you're battling yeast you need to take a much stricter approach to diet than you normally would, just as you must when you have a dog with food allergies.

    I let mine have leftover rice from dinner from time to time as they don't have any digestive problems. Kharma, especially, has that Fila capacity to digest just about anything. Shiva gets gassy if she gets too much of the wrong thing; it's her show-dog lines on her father's side. It's really something you have to watch for with the individual dog.
     
  10. Mordy

    Mordy Quigleyfied

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    sorry to butt in, but this is a topic i feel strongly about and have a few thoughts to share. :)

    first of all, while some of the information on the great dane lady's website is very useful, i don't agree with all the products she endorses. but she makes a profit from referrals, so i understand why she does it.

    * nzymes for example are in my opinion a useless supplement. if you look at the ingredient list, you see things like "proprietary blend of Sprouted Soy Protein and RiceX ricebran", liver and beef flavoring, vitamin A, vitamin C, vitamin E and selenium. none of these things are going to address the yeast problem itself. it's a general nutritional supplement with perocessed ingredients that may or may not contribute something useful to a dog's diet. it would be far more beneficial to feed some fresh liver and muscle meat (cooked if you absolutely must, but raw is better), pureed fresh veggies and a good, human grade vitamin C and vitamin E supplement - at a fraction of the price.
    * the "bac pac" probiotic supplement is full of unnecessary ingredients, flavoring agents, stabilizers and so on and has a fairly low amount of colony forming units (cfu) - only 3.1 billion per gram, where other, better quality products have 2-4 times as many. that means you have to feed only 1/2 to 1/4 of the amount required for a truly therapeutic effect.

    i generally do not recommend buying pet grade supplements, since they do not fall under the same strict regulation as human grade ones, are usually diluted by flavoring agents and are mostly quite overpriced.

    on to the yogurt. it's a beneficial addition to the food, but even the best cultured yogurt does not offer enough bacteria for a therapeutic effect. it's okay for the maintenance of an animal that has no health issues but will not make enough of a difference in a problematic case.

    if a dog has recurring yeast issues, there's a problem witht he diet. i'm not saying that it has to be a full blown allergy, but something in the food does not agree with the body and it is weakened enough not to have enough immune power to deal with the irritant and the yeast overgrowing.

    it is a myth that "carbs feed yeast". you can eliminate all grains from a dog's diet, but it will still contain carbs, as long as you don't also eliminate any fruit or vegetables as well. the words "carbs" and "starch" can not be used interchangeably. furthermore, a number of processes in the body have an absolute need for glucose (a simple sugar), the brain first and foremost. the body will fuel this need, if necessary, by converting protein and/or fat to glucose. so even if you eliminate all starch from the diet otherwise, you can not eliminate sugar from the body. i see balidog's only purpose was to push a product on a website he or she is affiliated with tho. lol

    another myth is that candida albicans widely affects dogs. systemic yeast infection in dogs is so rare that it makes reports in medical journals. the type of yeast most dogs are affected by is malassezia, and overgrowth causing dermatitis, otitis and other problems is triggered by an underlying cause, often a dietary problem.
    http://www.upei.ca/~cidd/Diseases/dermatology/Malassezia dermatitis.htm
    http://www.dog.com/vet/dermatology/05.html

    before jumping into any kind of treatment, have a vet perform a test and determine what you are dealing with. treatment generally involves some sort of antifungal, but as long as the underlying cause is not eliminated, the yeast overgrowth is going to keep coming back.

    rice is generally not a problem and overall a very digestible carb source, but it must be almost cooked to death before cellulose is broken down sufficiently for the dog to digest the rice. it's different in commercial pet food since it is ground and cooked sufficiently in the manufacturing process. it's pretty pointless to add it to a commercial diet tho, since they include a lot of grains already to begin with. for a home prepared diet, brown rice is more nutritious than white rice.

    ok, all that out of the way, i checked out the article linked at thepetprofessor.com and i must say i'm pretty disappointed. that darleen rudnick person who wrote the article seems pretty clueless to me and much of the information on that site is totally incorrect. sadly it sseems that she does consultations and is spreading a lot of that misinformation to even more people.

    i'll address the incorrect information as it appears in the article:

    contrary to common belief, systemic infection with candida albicans is not a common occurrence in dogs. as i mentioned further up, they mostly experience problems from malassezia, which overgrows due to underlying problems. once these are eliminated, the yeast returns to normal levels even present on healthy animals.

    again, the yeast is not the primary issue, it is a sumptom that surfaces because the body is not strong enough to deal with the underlying cause and the yeast overgrowth at the same time.

    yes, the pet may respond positively to the yeast being treated, but yet again - it's just a symptom that is addressed, not the underlying problem that causes it.

    the only prevention that is needed is eliminating the particular food ingredients that cause problems.

    you do not need to prepare a horribly complicated diet to get rid of the problem. and you definitely do not need to spend hundreds of dollars for various supplements to treat your dog over the course of up to a year or longer. it's all a lot of hype, especially the notion that you can get to the bottom of this by feeding a particular brand of commercial kibble (azmira is mentioned specifically).

    i also question the fact that she advises to cook her recipes for homecooked pet food for 6 hours. prolonged exposure to heat destroys many nutrients and it is absolutely not necessary. even a whole chicken with meat on the bone can be simmered tender at quite low temperatures in under two hours.

    no, you will not get a yeast problem under control permanently by feeding commercial foods. even the most simple formulations contain a good number of vitamin and mineral supplements as well as other ingredients that can contribute to the underlying cause. this is nothingbut scamming people into a prolonged, very costly treatment and will not rid your poor dog of problems as soon as possible.

    wrong again. i'll get into more detail on that very soon.

    and yet again, only addressing topical issues, but not the real problem at hand.


    ok, now it tells me my post is too long, so i'll have to break it up. :)
     
  11. Mordy

    Mordy Quigleyfied

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    yes, it can take a while to treat, but i honestly feel this ill conceived treatment plan and there are far more issues that need to be addressed than what has been brought up by the author so far.

    more self-advertising....

    okay, now i can finally get to the point. anybody still with me? if you have made it so far, thanks for hanging on, i promise i don't have all that much more to say, just that treating a yeast problem is by far not as complicated as this author makes it sound.

    now you want to know what you would have to do, right?

    it's rather simple, but may or may not be easy. you need to find the underlying cause that makes the yeast overgrow and become problematic. once that is done, the yeast will go away on its own and it will not return.

    this is achieved by doing a strict elimination diet, not by introducing even more possible irritants into the dog's diet. here is how it's done:

    1. do consult a veterinarian, espcially if the dog in question is still a puppy in the growth phase. do not do this on your own. if your vet is not willing to work on this with you, find another vet, preferably a holistic practitioner. you can find one in your area at the referral list here: http://www.ahvma.org/referral/index.html


    2. completely forget the notion about feeding any commercial food or any supplements, at least for some time. the only exception being a potent, high quality probiotic that is free of flavoring agents, stabilizers, sugar, salt, yeast, wheat, gluten, soy and preservatives. in other words: most of the pet quality supplements need not apply, look for a human grade product.

    3. choose one type of protein source and one type of carb source that your dog has not previously been exposed to. depending on what the dog has eaten in the past, this can be more or less complicated. most of the better mainstream pet foods are either chicken or lamb based, while the low end stuff is usually beef based. go through whatever brands you have used and see what is not included. if you are lucky, you end up being able to make use of something fairly easy to get, like beef, pork, turkey or duck as far as protein goes, and oats, millet, barley, or white potato as a carb source. if you are not so lucky, you might have to scout for buffalo, rabbit, venison etc. and more exotic grains like quinoa, amaranth and buckwheat, or forego grains altogether and use yellow squash, acorn squash, turnips or another type of vegetable.

    4. do not be scared to hear that your simplistic diet of only two ingredients is be all you will be feeding for the next few weeks. it's absolutely necessary. the idea behind it is to start with a foundation the dog does not react to, and then challenging his system by reintroducing items he has been exposed to in the past, in order to eliminate the ones that cause a reaction.

    5. feed your elimination diet for 8 weeks and watch for results. very important: keep a diary every single day, and make note of
    * any mishaps (e.g. dog gets hold of something other than the elimination diet ingredients)
    * clinical signs like itching, chewing, redness or sores on certain body parts, developing odor etc. etc.
    * any changes in the consistency, color, appearance and odor of stool

    6. after 8 weeks, evaluate the situation:
    a) if there has been no improvement at all, it is unlikely that the underlying cause is a food allergy or sensitivity and you need to explore other areas.
    b) if there has been some improvement, continue the same way for another 4 weeks and reevaluate
    c) if there has been a marked improvement, you can start "challenging" the dog's system, see step 7.

    7. reintroduce food items he has been exposed to in the past, but slowly, in small amounts and only one by one. for example: you have been feeding items A & B for the past 8-12 weeks, now introduce a small amount of item C for a few days. changes in stool are generally the earlierst signs of something being a problem and usually appear within 24 to 48 hours. there are two possible outcomes:
    a) no negative reactions: the ingredient is safe and you can include it in your diet plan after the elimination diet is done. move on to challenging the next item.
    b) apparent negative reaction: the item is problematic and should be excluded from the diet. return to the previous elimination diet until the situation is stable again, then challenge the next item.

    continue until you have eliminated the ingredients the dog reacts to and are left with a number of things you can use to feed a more varied diet again. any supplements you want to use as part of your dog's new feeding plan are tested the same way.

    i hope it becomes clear now why it is so important not to feed many different kinds of supplements and remedies while the dog is going through this. you need an established safe basis where the dog does not have to fight off additional issues. you can still use gentle topical remedies to treat the yeast problems, like a boric acid wash for inflamed ears, a mild, natural tea tree oil shampoo for cleaning the skin, and you can also mix some of your probiotic supplement with a little water and apply it topically to help with normalizing the skin. overall the absence of irritants will allow the dog's immune system to do its work and the body will heal itself.

    ultimately it might become possible to return to a commercial food after you know what causes reactions and what doesn't, but a home prepared diet (regardless if you decide to feed raw or cooked or a combination of both) is the better, healthier choice in my opinion.

    that's it now. i hope it's helpful.
     
  12. Debi

    Debi Moderator

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    Great post, Mordy. I read every word :D I love all info on this subject..it's just so important.







    course......"you had me at hello" (and it's morning...and I'm silly)
     
  13. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

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    Thanks for that post, Mordy . . . very helpful, especially the part about using human grade supplements. They also tend to be less expensive.

    Unfortunately, Mordy, most of us are on our own when it comes to dealing with yeast. The majority of vets just don't acknowledge systemic yeast problems; the tendency seems to be for adopting the MD's philosophy of just treating symptoms. Anything that doesn't get a course of antibiotics, steriods or both gets treated with some vile iteration of Science DIEt, which, as you know, just exacerbates the problem.

    I've used the AHVMA site (love it) and I'm one of the fortunate few that does have alternate practitioners within a 60-100 mile drive of my home. There just aren't that many in a lot of places.
     
  14. Saje

    Saje Island dweller

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    I wish doctors and vets could get away from all the medications. I know how it works and why they use them but I am a big believer in prevention first, then using more holistic methods to heal something and then, if absolutely necessary, contemporary medicine. I wish that that would change. I wish I wish I wish...
     
  15. Bucket

    Bucket New Member

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    Mordy
    Excellent post. In my first post I raised concern about the nzymes having the base of Soy Protein. Initially when we took her in they wanted us to do a round of Steroids and antibiotics. Thats just not the answer and the sad part was they said she would probably have to take another round. The kicker was they said she would probably have this problem the rest of her life requiring the same regimen. Alternative here we come

    Any reccomendations on human grade Probiotics? Or supplements anyone uses for their dogs?
     
  16. Mordy

    Mordy Quigleyfied

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    i've had good luck with NOW brand supplements. they have a lot of different things and it takes a bit of research to find out the better ones, but if you know what you are looking for, you will find good quality and decent prices.

    this is a good probiotic supplement for example.

    i also buy their lecithin granules, nutritional yeast, vitamin E and calcium ascorbate (generic ester C).
     
  17. Bucket

    Bucket New Member

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    Thanks for the suggestion
    So how do you figure the amount to use? By the dogs weight? Or half the reccomended dose?
     
  18. Mordy

    Mordy Quigleyfied

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    i give the human dose. dogs have a shorter digestive tract and a faster metabolism, so they can make use of the higher number of "colony forming units".
     
  19. Bucket

    Bucket New Member

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    So do you give it to them everyday? I know I take my probiotic everyday!
     
  20. Mordy

    Mordy Quigleyfied

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    if you are using probiotics to treat a specific health issue, it's important to give it every day. if you give a high potency product (like the above, not anything pet grade with low cfu count) and are only using it for general wellness, 3-4 days a week is fine.
     

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