Guardian breeds?

Discussion in 'The Dog Breeds' started by Izzy's Valkyrie, Sep 3, 2009.

  1. Zoom

    Zoom Twin 2.0

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    40,739
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Based on that criteria, I would really look more at Aussies. I lived in a shady apartment for awhile and was very glad I had Sawyer around. He would bark if someone paused outside my door and when we were outside walking and someone came up to me, he would put himself between me and the other person and just sort of staaaaaaare. It freaked out a lot of people. The one time some drunk friend thought it would be funny to run up to me yelling 'Booga booga booga!!!" got charged by a barking Sawyer. Ever seen someone literally fall over themselves trying to stop? It's funny.
     
  2. babymomma

    babymomma Remembering Casey ♥

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Messages:
    2,422
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Occupation:
    1 Dog
    Location:
    NFLD ,Canada
    I would recomend GSD's.

    Kacee is a GSDxlab With a lab personality, likes to greet everybody. I Had her up in my yard and my bro came out and started doing that older brother anoying wrestly thing. And I started to scream because he was driving me nuts and I wanted him to stop it.

    Kacee didnt like it. She thought he was hurting me (he kinda was) and she came over and Jumped up on him and growled but when he wouldnt let go she grabbed his arm with her mouth and started to pull him off. But the weird thing is she wasnt being rough about it and didnt really hurt my bro. I thought It was kinda cool.. I have no doubt in my mind that, that was the GSD coming out of her.

    She is very protective over not only me, But keely too. She scared off a coyote that was Getting very close to us when we were on a feild by ourselves. Scared the sh*t out of me.

    And She also fought off a Husky that went after keely.

    My sweet little Dog that loves everybody and everything, Has a switch. And I feel safe with her. She's almost 10 years old and Pwned That huskey that went after keely, and the husky is bigger then her. :p
     
  3. Squishy22

    Squishy22 Guest

    Thanks for the info. Very interesting!
     
  4. GSDlover_4ever

    GSDlover_4ever New Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2006
    Messages:
    891
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    1 dog
    I would say a GSD or Rottie. A dog known for being agressive in the public eye. Thats your best line of defense right there. People will more and likely pick a better target than to confront your "police dog". Fear is a HUGE motivator. LGD's look like fluffy teddy bears (most at least) and IMO can give off the wrong impression. And once the threat is close enough to realize fluffy aint so sweet it would be too late for any other option but to let the dog confront him and pray the dog doesnt get killed. You want to avoid a confrontation at all cost (because so many variables can play in to what the outcome will be) and I feel you have a better chance scaring people off with a more popular known guard dog.

    BTW GSD's (or at least the good ones, bred to standard) dont nip BECAUSE of their prey drive. Prey drive entices calm full grips, defense based dogs use front teeth and bite release and re bite.
     
  5. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2003
    Messages:
    94,266
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Occupation:
    3, Bimmer, GSDX (m); Kharma, Fila Brasileiro (f);
    Location:
    Where the selas blooms
    Home Page:
    For the record, those weren't full Presas in the Whipple case. They were mixes, bred and raised for extreme aggression.
     
  6. planet molosser

    planet molosser CASSA

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2006
    Messages:
    1,743
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    11 dogs- 2 Horses and Herd Karakuls
    Location:
    Niagara NY
    Home Page:
    Yes I know the pedigrees but the were reg as pure Presa with some mastiff blood behind them. Sadly the damage was done.

    RE to GSDS Ive been bitten by failed police dog, ive worked with several k9 partner. Hosted a PP trail and spent many a weekend with GSDs at PP club.
    GSD are NOT born with knowledge of full grips they are trained via tools- run after tug toe and to stay on toy with tugging- then puppy sleeve then full sleeve. They do naturally play tug but are not full front and back teeth bites at birth either.

    GSDS used as HERDING dogs have their fangs FILED down due to the damage they cause when they NATURALLY Nip the sheep from behind. They were/ are a herding breed not a bite force police breed. Can u inagine they gripped ever sheep with a full bite? NO mre sheep.

    Defense dogs as a general rue dont use front teeth , they do re grip but anytime you want to take a bite which is NEVER a full in your throat fiting grip due to natural self preservation in working breeds that protect better than trained dogs in real life.

    Self preservation means holding on to ONE arm allows the bear or the bad guy to shoot dog the dog knick the dog or take off its head.

    Loose dog defense bad man. DOg charges and bluffs - putting a display worse than any chase a herding dog can do. Then they knck bad guy down to their level with a tooth butt, giving hem a chance to back off. Bad guy wont. Then they bite thrassh back and fouth with heads the size of bears and hooked teeth much bigger than most, backed up with a body of a Molosser in this case of 140-Plus pounds some 170.
    Much harder to take a shot when you are knocked down and are getting redirect bites. Plus when you test a defense dog VS train a herding dog.
    They know the sleeve is fake, they redirect cause the bad guy is staying there and they look for a spot that makes them go away. They are learned thru trips to PP guy that the sleeve is all they get and they settle for it.
    1st time defense dogs generally jump over the sleeve and go for shoulder.
    Defense dogs also are NOT hyped up before after or during PP work.
    They turn off asap as threat is gone. They rarely cary sleeve off field since this not NOT a game. They dont want the reward of the toy hense sleeve they want the bad guy to STOP being bad.
    Which is why some guardians are naturally protection dogs vs trained.

    [​IMG]

    This is the founder of SCH club of buffal and was a key founder n he SCh club of American Owen Tober RIP

    Since I dont want to leave false impression that they are monsters
    This is same dog in Petco very social only defeneive when needs to be
    YouTube - Working dogs go to Pet Store well socialized Central Asian shepherd
     
  7. Phoenixangelwyngs

    Phoenixangelwyngs Zookeeper Extraordinaire!

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2008
    Messages:
    837
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    2 dogs, 7 cats, 1 bunnyhead, and fish.... aka....
    Location:
    Ames, Iowa
    Izzy, I've been raised with Border Collies my whole life. All the dogs I can remember will brk when something's up. Shye does a fantastic job (to the annoyance of my neighbors) of letting me know when anything is going on that he can hear but can't see to verify that it is "ok" activity. He's amazingly alert. All of my mom's dogs would let you know there was someone on the property and that the someone isn't known...

    My limited experience with Aussies is that they tend to be more vocal for the sake of being vocal. Ransom in particular, makes noise just to hear himself make noise. Azure on the other hand, rarely says anything ever. He barks a bit when he needs out otherwise I never hear a peep out of that dog.
     
  8. Miakoda

    Miakoda New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2006
    Messages:
    7,666
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Planet Molosser, can I tell you how much I love and enjoy your posts? You and Renee are two of the people that have truly opened my eyes to guardian breeds and really instilled in me a deep respect for them. I love reading and learning about these dogs and I would LOVE to meet soem such as yours one day. Maybe if I am lucky in life........... :)


    (btw....just where IS my Kharma pup? :D "Anarchy Drools" is waiting for me...I know it!" )
     
  9. planet molosser

    planet molosser CASSA

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2006
    Messages:
    1,743
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    11 dogs- 2 Horses and Herd Karakuls
    Location:
    Niagara NY
    Home Page:
    Thanks you -Ive learned allot here as well.
    Sorry for typos DR put patch on eye to brng down swelling
     
  10. babymomma

    babymomma Remembering Casey ♥

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Messages:
    2,422
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Occupation:
    1 Dog
    Location:
    NFLD ,Canada
    Kacee was never trained, Yet she used her full mouth for the grip.
     
  11. 2pups622

    2pups622 Soon to Be 4 Pups!!

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2004
    Messages:
    1,248
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    3
    Location:
    NY
    Get a Yorkie..
     
  12. GSDlover_4ever

    GSDlover_4ever New Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2006
    Messages:
    891
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    1 dog
    GSD's are not solely a "herder" anymore. They have been manipulated to be a well rounded working dog, capable of almost any task. They may not be the best at any given job but they are one of the most well rounded dog breeds. Breeders of working line dogs have been insitlling a genetic full grip. So how is it a dog that never seen a sleeve before never had any type of PP training can come out and naturally on the first bit, the sleeve is so far back he's practically gagging?? Alot of GSD's cant herd (or need to be "reminded")sheep anymore because of their level of drives.

    A full grip is SOOOO important in PP and Sch that it HAS become genetic it is reinforced but not taught. But I think the point we are disagreeing on is the actual grip and what drive it is steming from. GSD's do have a genetic full mouth grip for PREY drive, but not defense. Is that what you meant? If so I totally agree.


    I totally agree with the dangers a dog that doesnt re grip faces. I honestly dont give two sh!ts where my dog bites in a real situation but in all honesty I dont want my dog to come in contact with that threat at all. A big scary show is all I need. I dont care how big a dog is or how much power they have. A human being is capable of anything, and I strongly believe that. Dont put ANYTHING past a person.

    There are so many different types of GSD's that I can gurantee you can find ANY type of dog you want within the breed. Couch potatoes, Golden in GSD body, highly prey driven dogs, suspicious dogs with very low thresholds, civil dogs who look specifically at the man and nothing more (the dog I like), overly confident dogs who wont so much as bark if someone came in uninvited, dogs that enjoy a good fight with man ect.

    Like I said a more well known guard dog will keep people away moreso than a LGD, they are big yes, but to an idiot they look harmless and docile. I rather have a "police dog" that keeps people away than have a dog that makes the bad guy take a 50/50 chance on if attacking this person with that dog is really worth it.

    Also LGD are NOT dogs you just go out and buy. Without a proper upbringing just by their sheer size can be devestating. I would NEVER want to be on the business end of one of the well adjusted ones. Can you imagine an unsure one? Or one not properly socialized or understood?

    Remember this thread is open to be viewed by just about anyone. I would hate to give the wrong idea to the worng person who thinks they want an LGD. In reality most people do not need a dog like this and even more people cannot properly raise/train a LGD. People screw up GSD's, Rotties, Pit Bulls ect. Can you imagine how they can screw up a CO or CAS. They are definately breeds that can feed into the macho ego trip.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2009
  13. planet molosser

    planet molosser CASSA

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2006
    Messages:
    1,743
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    11 dogs- 2 Horses and Herd Karakuls
    Location:
    Niagara NY
    Home Page:
    Look I am one of those people that go bu histories and standards.
    THE GSD is a all purpose one of the BESt if not the BEST family dogs in the WORLD.
    That dont make them natural guaridans.
    And Yes I do understand everyone reads this which is why i corrected inaccurate information..

    SInce I am the president of the US CAS CLub , have the breed 13 years and have been active in rescue for 30 yrs YES CAS can get screwed up- NO different that a Saint or a Newfie FEARFULL undersocialized HUGE dogs can be created by any idiot.

    CAS are different than CO. If u must lump or compare than lump with ASD Akbask Kangal that is same dna breed group. CO is a different dna group and backgroud.

    CAS are not on the 1st breed ban in any country even Germany who started it.
    Yet many breeds that are loved and owned by many here are .
    So lets stop trying to put all LGDS inc Great Pry or CAS into this bad ass area.
    iF CAS are that hard to own inyour mind to own than a FILA would be out of the question for 99.0 percent of the people here. Last I checked more than a good amount of good people here own FIla. dont make them the next GSD - but does downplay this
    imagine this imagine that thing dont it.

    If people breed for exceptions to the rule it dont help the breed.
    GSDS are not natural born guardians and are trained thru professionals to do what we see as PP work . they work in different drives which makes them one of the most trainable dogs in the world next to teh border collie.

    LGDS have little prey drive which makes them safer as LGDS vs herding dogs.
    They naturally protect but are not easily trainable for multi tasks.
    They are specialists as guardians period.

    As I said I have a CGC TDI TT Protection tested -Multi Champion Therapy dog DONT MAKE THE BREED a Therapy dog..

    IF someone attempts to breed for the exceptions to the rule than that is where accidents happen.
    Being honest is best way to talk dogs and I dont put my LOVE for my dogs mixed in with my ego I thinking they are the best at everything- they are NOT.
     
  14. planet molosser

    planet molosser CASSA

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2006
    Messages:
    1,743
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    11 dogs- 2 Horses and Herd Karakuls
    Location:
    Niagara NY
    Home Page:
    Understanding drives.
    Quoted from Don Yarnall LAPD retired police dog trainer @1 breed GSD

    Understanding what mind set dogs have based in inhertance of the temperament can help people if confronted .

    . 3 Drives prey, Defense and Fight

    1. During a Bark & Hold situation If the dog is in Prey he is in effect saying "Run so I can bite you"

    2. If he is in defense he is saying "Stay away from me or I will bite you"

    3. If he is in fight, he is saying "Don't Move I will bite you"

    #2 Is the Best way to describe the temperament of the Central Asian Shepherd. They apply due force according to the threat.
    They do NOT wish to engage but will if the threat does NOT leave they will engage. They rarely give chase once the threat leaves the area. Thus making them an effective Flock guardian.

    EX CAS wont bark and hold someone waiting for them to run to bite.
    If he person refuses to leave the area and is a threat they do NOT bark,
    They growl posture body check bite release.

    IF a GSD is confronting a bad guy he may hold that bad guy in that one spot and you can come home to the guy with hands up saying pls call the dog off. Because why? he did NOT MOVE.
     
  15. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2003
    Messages:
    94,266
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Occupation:
    3, Bimmer, GSDX (m); Kharma, Fila Brasileiro (f);
    Location:
    Where the selas blooms
    Home Page:
    Ren (OC) is trying to help me locate a suitable stud for the line I want to found - No show dogs here ;) I need to get this done by her next heat. She's just finishing this one.
     
  16. Miakoda

    Miakoda New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2006
    Messages:
    7,666
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    LOL. If there's one thing that always makes me smile, it is the thought of a mini-Jazz looking up at me with all those wrinkles and floppy ears after he just destroyed my stuffed animal because he was protecting the family. :rofl1:

    And I still haven't found a better name than Anarchy Drools. Hell, my mom thinks your slogan of "Kharma's a bitch" is an absolute riot!
     
  17. GSDlover_4ever

    GSDlover_4ever New Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2006
    Messages:
    891
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    1 dog
    I JUST said that GSD's are very rarely the best at anything they do. There will always be a breed that specializes in a specific job and will blow the GSD out of the water. They are however one of the most well rounded working dogs, being able to complete almost any working task. Again probably wont do the best compared to breeds that are solely bred. So dont give me that ego BS.

    Tell me, what is so wrong with having a dog hold the intruder at bay? Why MUST the dog bite in order to protect? In this world where you get sued for dog bites and can have your dog euthanized why is it so important that your dog bite. And to bite and release and retreat!!! If a dog MUST bite someone it better be to hold them until I get my gun and finish the job. I would NEVER want to let that person go. Either the police is coming to pick him up or he's done. Handcuffs or bodybag if someone really attacked you. I would want things to be COMPLETELY clear if things were to go wrong, and you cannot gurantee that if the bad guy gets away. The stories they can come up with. I would not allow ANYONE to threaten my lifestyle (including my dogs). I would want the police to have a CLEAR image of what really happened. And that simply cannot happen if the person is allowed to run off.

    If a GSD didnt have any instict to protect it would not be used as a protection dog. You cannot train what is not there. Just because a GSD works completely different from a LGD does not mean they are completely useless. Some dogs prefer to hold at bay others prefer to bite first (and that could be found within one breed). In either sense both dogs are protecting just have a different style. I had a dog that would bite any threat, no questions asked. HUGE liability. Just not my style.

    #2 Is the worst type of protection dog you can have (or at least with the herding breeds, dont know about yours). The protection is steming from fear and uncertainty. Can be very stressful for the dog.

    #2 and #3 can both be used as portection. Just #3 has the confidence that once he enters the fight he is fully comitted and will not stop until he defeats his opponent (or called off).

    Its like a street fighter looking for a fight just to get the adrenaline flowing and to feel the rush vs someone who was attacked but fights back with everything they have. The latter person is probably freaking out inside but fights because if they dont they know they could possible die. Like I said fear is a huge motivator ;)

    99.9% of people should never own a Fila BTW. If you can argue with that statement, then I have nothing more to say.

    Just wanted to add I am not attacking you or your dogs. :) Just throwing out my ideas on protection. But then again i feel any dog with a strong bond to its pack (you) will defend their pack to the best of their abilities (on a united front, where the entire pack is fighting to defend, rarely will a dog fight alone). Just some dogs are better equipped to deal with stress and pressure and I feel a good GSD is one of them.
     
  18. Pops2

    Pops2 New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2008
    Messages:
    3,072
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    none
    Location:
    UT
    i just had this same discussion from the other direction. some guy was like the GSD/mal are the most awesome can beat anything and craps tiffany cufflinks. the GSD is a good well rounded breed that can be a very capable guardian. molossers can be very capable guardians. arguing over which is better or more natural is a waste of time even more so if one person is arguing and the other not so much.
     
  19. bubbatd

    bubbatd Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2004
    Messages:
    64,812
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Goldens won't attack , but they sure do warn , and that's all I care about !
     
  20. colliewog

    colliewog Collies&Terriers, Oh My!

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2006
    Messages:
    2,297
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    4 dogs
    Location:
    Central Florida
    :rofl1: I wish THAT was something you could teach!!
     

Share This Page