Going Raw?

Discussion in 'Dog Food and Recipes' started by sillysally, Sep 12, 2012.

  1. naturalfeddogs

    naturalfeddogs love the fluff

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    I feed raw also. Prey model for about four years. I have never had a issue with bones. Of course it can happen, but I have always made sure to give large enough cuts that the dog has no choice but to chew. I have had a couple of sock issues over the years though.
     
  2. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    I've never had a dog have an obstruction from raw but I have heard of it. As a general rule it's not super common but I would stack the odds in my favor and avoid chokeable pieces.
     
  3. jenv101

    jenv101 Bite Club

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    I feed raw, both ground and whole. I can get ground at a really good price so its easier and cheaper for us to feed, but I do add in whole bone-in pieces to help with their teeth. They also chew antlers which helps.
     
  4. Greenmagick

    Greenmagick New Member

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    Who said that?
     
  5. Linds

    Linds Twin 2

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    Some dogs will have issues with gulping and others won't. Just because a dog didn't have an issue for years doesn't mean another dog might be the same.

    I've been feeding raw for years and never had an issue but I also know each of my dogs and tailor their meals for each of them. If you think you'll have an issue cut them into smaller pieces. If nothing else it will be better for your piece of mind.

    As far as kibble and raw goes I've fed them together multiple times. Most of my training is done mixes between kibble and raw and I've yet to see an issue with any of my dogs.

    If it bothers your dog stop feeding then stop. If it works then keep going.
     
  6. sassafras

    sassafras mushinois

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    Nobody said it explicitly. But it's the general tone that runs through many of these threads I grow weary of.
     
  7. JustaLilBitaLuck

    JustaLilBitaLuck New Member

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    I feed kibble, canned, raw (premade ground), and dehydrated in every combination you can think of, and my dogs do just fine. My theory on the raw/kibble mixing is that if it works for your dog, keep doing it. If it doesn't work for your dog, stop doing it. Every dog is different, and you need to know your dog and know what works for them. Missy doesn't do well on Sojos - she gets horrible gas from it. It doesn't mean that Sojos is a bad food, just that it doesn't work well for one particular dog.

    As far as the ground vs chunks...it's honestly up to you and (again!) what works for your dog. My dogs get ground raw for their meals, but plenty of other things (raw bones, raw tracheas, bully sticks, tendons, etc) to chew on to keep their teeth clean. I will still say that dogs eating ground raw have better teeth than dogs eating straight kibble - so it's not like you're losing out on the dental benefits entirely. If you want to avoid bone for gulping/obstruction reasons, you could always give them a hunk of the ground raw when it's still frozen - they'll have to chew and work at it, but there's no risk of gulping large pieces of bone.

    Overall, there's no one "right" way to feed dogs - there's lots of right ways. You just need to figure out what works for you and your dogs. It might take some time and some trial and error, but eventually it'll work itself out.
     
  8. monkeys23

    monkeys23 New Member

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    I think having done mixing (raw, kibble, dehydrated, etc.) in the past, that I would not do it again. JMO.

    I do feed some ground (green tripe/trachea/gullet mix), but it doesn't do anything for their teeth. And I saw a night and day difference when I went from partial raw to full prey model raw in Scout's teeth. They went from totally covered in brown tartar to sparkly white. She has crap teeth that are harder to keep clean. Lily's always had really nice teeth, but they also cleaned up on raw. Her top canines are the only ones with slight tartar.
     
  9. Aleron

    Aleron New Member

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    I'll say again, I've not seen much proof of the "you can't feed raw and kibble together" rule and I have at this point known hundreds of raw fed dogs, fed in every way imaginable (all RMBs, prey model, raw and kibble fed together/separately, all ground, with veggies/grains/carbs and without, whole prey, etc, etc).

    The gulping issue...it depends on the dog I think. It's rarely an issue but it can be an issue. A friend of mine just had a bad time with her dog having a colon obstruction from chicken necks of all things and that dog has been raw fed from weaning on. Loki eats all RMBs without issue except turkey necks - she will swallow them whole and choke on them. Turkey necks are huge, so the theory of giving bigger stuff to discourage gulping doesn't work with her. I also know another raw fed since weaning dog who had an colon obstruction from a turkey neck. OTOH my GSDs were all gulpers, they never crunched anything more than a couple times and never had any issues at all. However, giving "recreational bones" (large hard beef bones) caused pretty bad wear and breaking with their teeth. As old dogs their teeth were clean but many were worn all the way down to the gums. There is a definite risk with such bones as far as breaking/wearing teeth down.

    And as far as dental health goes, IME raw fed dogs pretty much always have better teeth than kibble fed dogs regardless of what sort of raw feeding their owner does. Most dogs are not chewing RMBs enough for the bones to be cleaning their teeth. However, feeding raw food in itself means the dogs tend to have better digestion, are using their molars as they were intended (crunching bones vs. chewing cereal) and not having a big build up of gooey, paste-y wet kibble residue. That said, I do feel dental health is also genetic. Some dogs have weaker/softer teeth, teeth with more shallow roots and/or lack proper enzymes in their saliva and even with the most ideal diet, these dogs may still need some extra help in the dental area, although not usually enough to require a cleaning at the vet's. Jagger gets a lot of RMBs but his upper canines get tartar on them that I have to scale off - the rest of his teeth look great!
     
  10. sillysally

    sillysally Obey the Toad.

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    Aren't there other nutritional benefits to bone and raw in general besides dental? Would feeding ground raw be better than feeding kibble even if there aren't whole hones involved?

    The thing is that if I had no choice but to feed the raw with whole bones I don't think I'd feed are at all. I know that dogs can get obstructions from totally random things anyway, but I don't think I'd ever forgive myself if Jack had to go through surgery again because of something I gave him. I wouldn't be so worried about Sally because she actually chews her food, but if you've ever seen an alligator gulp down meat, that is how Jack eats. His teeth are just there to secure the food while he swallows it-lol. I once gave him a frozen turkey neck and he literally got in down in one piece and three gulps-I nearly had a stroke, but he was fine. He's also attempted to swallow a dead bird whole after Sally killed it.
     
  11. Aleron

    Aleron New Member

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    Yep! As long as there is bone ground in or an appropriate source of calcium, feeding ground meat mixes or RMBs is mostly just a personal preference. There could be some slight benefits of RMBs for dental health, enrichment and the such but for the most part, you will get all the benefits of raw from feeding good ground mixes. Like Emily, I have seen plenty of ground raw fed dogs who's teeth drastically improved from when they ate kibble.
     
  12. Toller_08

    Toller_08 Active Member

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    Dance eats primarily ground raw. Sometimes I'll give her whole meals also, but ground is just a whole lot easier for everyone. And less expensive. I can't say her teeth have improved since being on ground raw, because they were never bad to begin with. But she and the Dobermans get turkey necks and other bones at least once a week (usually more) and those all keep their teeth sparkly white.

    Health benefits that I've personally noticed with Dance over the last 7 months of being exclusively on raw:

    - Softer coat
    - Smaller stools, less frequent, and zero random diarrhea explosions that she used to get
    - No more fish breath (and her kibble wasn't even a fishy kibble)

    And that's about it. People who feed kibble that isn't very good quality and/or disagrees with their dog are the people who tend to see drastic differences in their dogs when they adjust to raw (if the dog does well on raw). But Dance was already eating and doing well on a diet of a good quality kibble with quite a bit of raw meals as well, so I didn't notice many major differences when I switched her to completely raw. The big bonus for me and the only reason I decided to try switching her back to completely raw long term was to see if it would cure her random mystery explosions if I stuck to raw and zero kibble, and so far so good, so for me that was totally worth it. And I feel so much better feeding her real food. I look at the Dobes' bowl of kibble and just feel so much better feeding Dance food that looks fresh and real.

    Health benefits I've seen in other dogs have been better muscle tone and healthier skin. I can't see much of a difference in Dance's muscle tone, and she's always had healthy skin. But her coat is nicer, which I noticed within just a few weeks of switching, so that says something I would say since it seemed perfectly soft and healthy prior as well.

    The one issue I have with Dance on raw vs kibble is that it is really, really easy for her to gain weight on raw. Most people don't seem to have that experience (dogs tend to lean out on raw), but I have to really watch Dance's portions.

    As far as feeding raw with kibble, Dance seemed to do fine on a kibble meal and a raw meal in the same day in the past. I never tried mixing it with her kibble. I have mixed some of Dance's raw in with the Dobes' kibble though and haven't had any digestive upsets except for when I gave Ripley a protein he apparently doesn't react well too (resulted in major rash and vomiting). But that had nothing to do with eating raw food with kibble. Some people say absolutely no way should you mix the two, but I know a lot of dogs who can eat both in one meal perfectly fine.
     
  13. sillysally

    sillysally Obey the Toad.

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    So if I were to order a months worth, should I buy only one protein or several?
     
  14. Emily

    Emily Rollin' with my bitches

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    Did you read my post? Like at all? One more time: One of my dogs cannot eat pieces large enough to prevent gulping, or she would be morbidly obese. Yeah, DUH, the drumstick was too small. Now we hand feed her anything with bone in it.

    Anyway, one surgery and $1600 later, I'm glad to learn it doesn't mean anything. :rofl1: I'll pass that on to my dog.
     
  15. Gypsydals

    Gypsydals New Member

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    I would start out with atleast chicken and maybe turkey for later in the month. You definatly don't want to start him out with too many different proteins. That would cause umm some major blow outs;) if you where switching them too fast.
     
  16. ihartgonzo

    ihartgonzo and Fozzie B!

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    My personal input: Ground raw is awesome, and a very good option for dogs who are gulpers and/or owners who are uneasy with raw bones! It's healthier AND cheaper than canned food.

    After having a few issues with bones, and hearing about other people with bone horror stories, I'm overly cautious about feeding bones. No beef/buffalo bones, and no weight bearing leg bones at all for my dogs. If you still want to benefits of bones you can feed a weekly meal of bones, something BIG that the dog has to work on, like pig feet/ribs, lamb shanks, turkey backs, or a beef knuckle bone (I let my dogs have these because they're 90% tissue/cartilege, and take them away once they get to the actual bone in the middle). As long as you provide some bones to scrape their teeth on. And feeding ground raw is much better than just kibble. It's like eating chicken compared to eating a cracker. The cracker sticks to your teeth, which is what causes plaque and decay.
     
  17. naturalfeddogs

    naturalfeddogs love the fluff

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    Would it have been any different, or cheaper if it had been a sock, or something else foreign?
     
  18. RD

    RD Are you dead yet?

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    I've fed at least partial raw for 7 years and honestly there is NO WAY IN HELL I would give a small piece of bone-in meat or a large piece of boneless meat to a gulper dog, especially one new to raw. My favorite way to get an overly enthusiastic dog used to chewing is to give them something like a whole beef neck bone, which they really have to gnaw on in order to get the meat off. Any boneless meals are ground up for the gulpers.

    I am unlike some people because I am absolutely in love with feeding recreational bones, even beef bones and weight bearing ones. I personally have had less of a problem with recreational bones than I have with the weight bearing bones of poultry, but maybe that is just my dogs being weirdos. I let my dog chew on almost any bone I can get for her, her teeth are in great shape for an almost six-year-old and her jaw muscles are ridiculous.
     
  19. naturalfeddogs

    naturalfeddogs love the fluff

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    The only weight bearing bones I ever give are deer legs, since they aren't quite as dense as say a cow, bison, elk etc....
     
  20. Kilter

    Kilter New Member

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    You could do a few proteins, but just don't go crazy the first time you feed anything. Slippery elm or some pumpkin/sweet potato to mix in would be a good idea. There's even canned pumpkin for dogs, and one company now has a version with ginger etc. in it for sensitive tummies.
     

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