Go Me Go Me!

[Manchesters]

Nope......

Gosh... you were being so nice for a second, then this. You are not the end all to be all. I don't agree with your 10-12 weeks before puppies leave thing. That's something you made up.

That is what show breeders believe and practice. I have tried to explain to you about a dozen times------you cannot evaluate the conformation of a puppy until it is at least 10 weeks old. What part of that is confusing you, rofl????

And no, dear, there is no one on this board who is any more accomplished at breeding than I. My dogs have done much to vastly improve the breed. One of my grandsons is the #1 Toy Manchester in Canada......something like 6 all breed best in shows. My b!tch that I sold to Lou Dunson was the Top Brood B1tch for 2003. Most champions produced by her for that year. Etc, etc. Not bragging.....just stating facts. Facts that can be verified, by the by!!

 

[Manchesters]

Again, Thanks RG

Personally (And this is JMO) I agree with Manchesters about puppies leaving at 10-12 weeks. It gives the breeder a better chance to evaluate the structure of each individual puppy, and decide which should be placed with limited registration on spay/neuter contracts, and which should be considered for show homes (And for the breeder to keep.)

But as I have finally realized there is a great divide between the way pet folks view things. It is not their fault.....they have nothing to relate to. They think of puppies as cutsie little cuddle toys. Show breeders think of puppies as cutsie cuddle toys that are charged with improving the breed and personally owned dogs as well.

Unfortunately the pet people are not willing to stretch their imaginations to include the breed standard type breeders point of view.

 

[EliNHunter]

And no, dear, there is no one on this board who is any more accomplished at breeding than I. Not bragging.....just stating facts. Facts that can be verified, by the by!!

So, what do you do with a puppy at 10-12 weeks that is not up to "standard"? And that sounds like bragging to me.

 

[RD]

So, what do you do with a puppy at 10-12 weeks that is not up to "standard"? And that sounds like bragging to me.

Place it in a pet home on a neuter contract. I don't know where you got the idea of putting pet quality puppies to sleep, no reputable breeder would do such a thing.

 

[Manchesters]

Byb

So .... do you consider I was a BYB or what ????

That is not for me to judge. I have stated my feelings on the reason for producing puppies. And that stated by many of the breed clubs, etc. That, good folks, is what is known as a bilateral arabesque, rofl.

 

[EliNHunter]

Place it in a pet home on a neuter contract.

I feel most should be on a neuter contract. Unless it's a substantial champion line where you're selling the puppies for zillions of dollars...

 

[Manchesters]

Bragging

So, what do you do with a puppy at 10-12 weeks that is not up to "standard"? And that sounds like bragging to me.

Nope, I have no need to brag. My dogs have done all the bragging for me! Usually braggarts actually have nothing to be proud of! And yes, I know......pride goeth before a fall, rofl. But I am retired now, so don't have to worry about falling!

Rip's Girl answered the puppy question. How come YOU don't know before asking?????

 

[Manchesters]

You Got IT!!!

I feel most should be on a neuter contract. Unless it's a substantial champion line where you're selling the puppies for zillions of dollars...

Except for the champion line, that is. In that case, the breeder KEEPS the outstanding puppies, and MAY consider putting some out on co-ownership and the like.

Limited registration is for those pets that are to be neutered/spayed. No puppies from Limited Reg. dogs can be AKC registered.

 

[bubbatd]

MCT....that's great if you are breeding for show.... mine could have qualified , but that was not my purpose. Yet , one of my pick of litter ( from sire's owner ) ended up with him being in the National Obedience Hall of Fame. My point is, I only bred health cleared great Goldens. I didn't care what they did with them as I knew where they were going ..... yes, I could have charged 3 times the price,,, but to me having them in a loving home was more important ,

 

[EliNHunter]

Personally (And this is JMO) I agree with Manchesters about puppies leaving at 10-12 weeks. It gives the breeder a better chance to evaluate the structure of each individual puppy, and decide which should be placed with limited registration on spay/neuter contracts, and which should be considered for show homes (And for the breeder to keep.)

But if a breeder is that uptight about his/her whelps then he/she shouldn't be breeding in the first place. Hence the reason for the breeder's guarantee...

 

[RD]

But if a breeder is that uptight about his/her whelps then he/she shouldn't be breeding in the first place. Hence the reason for the breeder's guarantee...

I'm not sure I understand.. (Sorry - Past 8PM my 'comprehension' brain cells seem to die and I become one of the densest people you'll ever see.)

How is keeping the puppies a little longer, so you can more accurately evaluate their structure, considered being "uptight"?

 

[EliNHunter]

MCT....that's great if you are breeding for show.... mine could have qualified , but that was not my purpose. Yet , one of my pick of litter ( from sire's owner ) ended up with him being in the National Obedience Hall of Fame. My point is, I only bred health cleared great Goldens. I didn't care what they did with them as I knew where they were going ..... yes, I could have charged 3 times the price,,, but to me having them in a loving home was more important ,

Amen!

 

[Manchesters]

Uptight?

But if a breeder is that uptight about his/her whelps then he/she shouldn't be breeding in the first place. Hence the reason for the breeder's guarantee...

No, not uptight at all. The only purpose for producing those puppies is to better the breed. Only those that do not meet the breeder's idea of perfection......or as close to perfection as possible are maybe placed as pets. Some of us keep them for ourselves. Luckily with Toy breeds that have smallish litters, this is possible. Out of 7 pups from my last 2 litters, I kept 3 for myself.

The point is that show breeders breed for THEMSELVES. NOT to supply the pet market.

 

[EliNHunter]

I'm not sure I understand.. (Sorry - Past 8PM my 'comprehension' brain cells seem to die and I become one of the densest people you'll ever see.)

How is keeping the puppies a little longer, so you can more accurately evaluate their structure, considered being "uptight"?

Puppies are ready to go at 8 weeks. If "some breeders" feel like they need to further evaluate their breed, after being aptly socialized, potty trained, etc. Then to me, it's a big red flag...

 

[Manchesters]

Well........

MCT....that's great if you are breeding for show.... mine could have qualified , but that was not my purpose. Yet , one of my pick of litter ( from sire's owner ) ended up with him being in the National Obedience Hall of Fame. My point is, I only bred health cleared great Goldens. I didn't care what they did with them as I knew where they were going ..... yes, I could have charged 3 times the price,,, but to me having them in a loving home was more important ,

Since the only valid justification for producing pups is to breed to the breed standard both physically and temperament wise to improve the breed, that kinda says it all.

Oh, and I charged a whopping $300 for the few puppies I ever sold. And they had pedigrees to die for. There are copies of most of my dogs' pedigrees on my web site......for those who know how to read a pedigree. It ain't easy! Like trying to tell if puppies are linebred or inbred, or outcrossed.

Heck, I had a top winning champion b!tch that I only bred once, and kept all her pups!!!!! Twit Wit is one of those! And handsome Homer. Then there is little Gator Gut. Wouldn't take any amount of money for them. Little brats that they are!

 

[RD]

Puppies are ready to go at 8 weeks. If "some breeders" feel like they need to further evaluate their breed, after being aptly socialized, potty trained, etc. Then to me, it's a big red flag...

To me, further evaluating the puppies to decide which have the potential to improve upon the current generation (And spaying/neutering those who do not) is a very responsible decision, and I wouldn't consider it a big red flag.

Pet puppies are ready to go at eight weeks, and occasionally I imagine there are some puppies whose structural flaws may be apparent at eight weeks - those puppies I would have no problem placing in pet homes at that age. But I would not want to place a puppy at 8 weeks on a co-ownership in a show home only to have it mature and be pet quality, if I could have known whether or not the puppy would have show potential at 12 weeks and spared myself and the co-owner the frustration. Does that make any sense? (I'm not even sure if I understand me right now LOL)

 

[Manchesters]

Moonrocks Revisited

Puppies are ready to go at 8 weeks. If "some breeders" feel like they need to further evaluate their breed, after being aptly socialized, potty trained, etc. Then to me, it's a big red flag...

Roflolololololololololol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You don't even have a CLUE!!!!!!! Why don't you try asking.....or BETTER YET........READ!!!!!!!! Do the words ANGULATION, LAYBACK, LET DOWN ON HOCK, STRAIGHT FRONTED mean a frigging thing to you??????? Geesh........you sure don't let the fact you don't know what is being talked about slow you down, do you??????????

 

[bubbatd]

I do agree that if you are breeding to show your line, you have to keep them at least 12 to 14 weeks to judge conformation. That was not my purpose.... I bred for what I cared for ...healthy , happy pups. Except for the pick of the litter , which went to Show Studs, all of my pups were neutered or spade at my request. I didn't need a signed contract.... all were responsible owners and saw how much time/money/ etc went into a litter.

 

[bubbatd]

MCT ... are you aware of a Sail something line out of Texas..??? ( 1950s) BTW... did you show your 3 you kept ??

 

[Manchesters]

Poopy Puppies

MCT ... are you aware of a Sail something line out of Texas..??? ( 1950s) BTW... did you show your 3 you kept ??

This is to both your posts, lol. Economy of typing. Of course the goal of every breeder is supposed to be a sound temperament in a sound body!!

I didn't show any of the three I kept because I was showing Robin to finish her championship, and also Sharkie. The one that I kept that I would have shown, Kammi (also known as Schnuggle Bug) was very nice, but by then my energy level was down to zilch, and the lady that was handling my dogs finally stopped going to shows after she finished Robin.

I was never able to afford to show, and there were not that many shows in this area. There are some in Gulfport and New Orleans, and two shows here twice a year. The majority of shows are down on the Peninsula.

The brats are just my babies.......spoiled rotten. Accustomed to their color TV, A/C good food, and comfortable beds, rofl. Me being their most comfortable bed, heheheh.