Go Me Go Me!

M

Manchesters

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#61
Dakotah_2009 said:
Manchester,
It just seemed to me that you where being mean. Sorry but Mrs.Cindy is NOT a byb! Lots of people let there pups go at 8 weeks. Sorry but not everyone is like you. I think u give good advice and I hate aguring, but we all different opinions right?
It is not a question of opinion. Go to the Golden Retreiver Club of America web site and see what they say is a reputable breeder.

In the first place, why did this woman breed this litter??? Is she breeding to improve upon her stock for showing and breeding? Is she breeding to improve upon the breed??? (And unless her dogs are top winners at least, I doubt she is interested in the breed standard!)

AND.....she can't be breeding for anything other than money, because otherwise she would not let the puppies go until they were old enough to evaluate conformation wise.

You have the chance to get yourself a top flight puppy, armed with the needed information. If instead you wish to just dump on anyone who tries to nudge you in the right direction, then the responsibility falls right into your lap.

You can get a champion bred puppy from a top kennel with lifetime health guarantees for about $500. Or you can get poop from a backyard breeder. The choice is yours. And BYB puppies very often end up with crippled hips. Not sure what the incidence of PRA is.

Oh, and I notice you do not seem to have done any research on CHD, or PRA. So I guess I am out of line for thinking you gave a flying flip. How silly of me. Good luck.......you truly are going to need it.
 

bubbatd

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#62
Manchester , EliNHunter and I are in touch with Dakota through pms just to keep this from happening . And I do disagree with you , when brought up by responsible breeders the right age is 8 weeks. By then they are well socialized , vetted 3 times, well into their food, paper trained, and ready to bond with their new homes. Costs of shots have nothing to do with it. If, for some reason, I kept a pup longer, I never charged more for the puppy. Also, I would like to know where you can find a Champion dog for $500 !!!
 

Dakotah_2009

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#63
Manchester, Can i say something? Mrs.Cindy has Sercie Dogs for the elderly, seeing eye dogs, and other types of services. I have the same question bubbatd asked, where in the world can you find a champion dog for $500??? Yes bubbatd and Elinhunter have been keeping up w/ me on this type of stuff through PMs. Manchester if you wanna fight/argue w/ someone don't keep replyingto this thread. This was suppose to be a good forum, sorry I thought that your 1st post was mean, but after I said that every other post you typed has seemed mean to me. If you wanna fuss don't reply to this thread. thanks


Bubbatd thanks
 
M

Manchesters

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#64
Disagreements

bubbatd said:
Manchester , EliNHunter and I are in touch with Dakota through pms just to keep this from happening . And I do disagree with you , when brought up by responsible breeders the right age is 8 weeks. By then they are well socialized , vetted 3 times, well into their food, paper trained, and ready to bond with their new homes. Costs of shots have nothing to do with it. If, for some reason, I kept a pup longer, I never charged more for the puppy. Also, I would like to know where you can find a Champion dog for $500 !!!
Oh gracious. Well, the majority of ethical breeders who breed for the betterment of the breed, or for the betterment of their own show prospects CANNOT let a puppy go before 10-12 weeks at least, because you cannot properly evaluate a dog's conformation prior to that age. You bred for hunting, right? So you were not interested in the breed standard correct? The "breed standard" does not apply to hunting stock, right?

Oh, and if you re-read my post, you will see that I said CHAMPION BRED....that means that both parents are finished champions. And no.....no responsible breeder will let a puppy go before at least 10 weeks of age. The fact that you promote letting puppies go at 8 weeks does not bode well.
 
M

Manchesters

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#65
Read!!!!

Dakotah_2009 said:
Manchester, Can i say something? Mrs.Cindy has Sercie Dogs for the elderly, seeing eye dogs, and other types of services. I have the same question bubbatd asked, where in the world can you find a champion dog for $500??? Yes bubbatd and Elinhunter have been keeping up w/ me on this type of stuff through PMs. Manchester if you wanna fight/argue w/ someone don't keep replyingto this thread. This was suppose to be a good forum, sorry I thought that your 1st post was mean, but after I said that every other post you typed has seemed mean to me. If you wanna fuss don't reply to this thread. thanks


Bubbatd thanks
Read my post again please. No where did I say a thing about buying a champion dog. It is too bad people cannot read the written word! I can do nothing more!!!!!!

There is no arguing.............facts are facts. Period. You either deal with ethical, reponsible educated breeders, or you deal with back yard puppy producers. The choice is YOURS.....not mine.

And I don't really care for whom this lady breeds. My only concern is for the dogs she produces, and that they have as healthy a start in life as possible. And that start begins even before conception. Can you comprehend that statement??????
 
M

Manchesters

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#66
Oh Dakotah...Honey Child.........

Does this sound familiar???? Straight off the pages of the Golden Retreiver Club of America website..............go argue with THEM!

The breeder should:
1.Belong to the Golden Retriever Club of America, a local Golden Retriever club, or an all-breed club. Ideally he/she should belong to all three; however, sometimes this is impossible. The reason for this requirement is that this sort of participation indicates depth of involvement. This breeder is exposed to other points of view, learns more about the breed and modern breeding practices, and is kept up to date on AKC rules and regulations.

2.Be involved in showing his/her dogs in the breed ring, the obedience ring, in hunting tests/field trials, agility, tracking, or in a combination of any of these. The reason for this requirement is that it means that the breeder is not working in a vacuum. The breeder who does not participate has no idea how good his/her dogs really are, and is deprived of the opportunity to share information and ideas with others. Showing provides the competition which encourages breeders to produce better dogs. The breeder who competes wants to prove how good his/her dogs are and is putting his/her breeding program on the line. This breeder is not relying on just a pedigree to indicate quality. Even if you do not want a competition animal, you deserve a companion that is the end result of a carefully planned litter; a puppy which received the same care as a potential champion. The breeder who competes in organized activities is known by others and has a reputation to uphold. This breeder will be as careful and honest in selling you your pet puppy as in selling show stock.

3.Be able to show you a clean environment; healthy, well-socialized puppies; and a dam with a good temperament. You should avoid: a) shy, whimpering, fearful puppies; b) puppies with dull coats, crusty or running eyes, signs of diarrhea, rashes or sores on their abdomens; c) signs of neglect, such as lack of water, pans of uneaten food, and dirty conditions; d) a breeder who will sell a puppy under seven weeks of age, as early separation from the dam and littermates can be very detrimental both psychologically and physically.

4.Give you a period of time in which to allow you to have the puppy examined by a veterinarian to determine its state of health, so that both of you are assured as to the condition of the puppy at the time of sale. If a problem should arise, it can then be quickly resolved.

5.Provide you with a record of the dates and types of vaccinations and de-worming done, feeding instructions, a 3-to 5-generation pedigree, and an AKC registration application to apply for registration of the puppy in your own name with the American Kennel Club (AKC). Sometimes the registration application is not available at the time you take your puppy home. If this is the case, have the breeder state on a dated, signed receipt of payment that the application will be sent to you as soon as possible. The registered names and AKC numbers of both parents, date of birth of the litter, and puppy's color and sex should be indicated. You can then contact AKC with complete information should there later be a problem with the papers.

6.Give you written instructions on feeding, training and care. This booklet was designed in part for that purpose. There are other materials that are useful; some are listed in Appendix B.

7.Be able to show you proof that both the sire and dam of the litter have had their hips X-rayed, and evaluated as normal by the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals (OFA) and/or PennHIP; have had their elbows X-rayed and evaluated as normal by the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals (OFA) or a board-certified veterinary radiologist: have had their hearts examined by a board-certified veterinary cardiologist; and have had their eyes examined by a board-certified veterinary ophthalmologist within the last 12-18 months. The breeder should also be willing to answer your questions about any other possible hereditary problems, including but not limited to seizures, hypothyroidism, and skin problems or allergies.

8.Ask you what kind of dogs you have had in the past, and what happened to them; whether or not you have a fenced yard; and whether or not the dog will be allowed to be a house dog and a member of the family. Sincere breeders will be a bit hesitant to sell you a puppy until they know more about you, what you are looking for in a dog, and what lifestyle you have in mind for your dog. Having the best interest of the puppy at heart, reputable breeders will take great pains to place puppies properly the first time around. A returned puppy is a traumatic experience for all concerned, so the breeder who is always willing to accept a puppy back will try to make certain that a Golden is the breed for you.

9.Be able to give you references: the names of people who have purchased puppies in the past, the names of other breeders, and the veterinarian who provides care for the breeder's dogs.

10.Provide some sort of written contract and/or conditions of sale. Any warranty of quality or health of the dog, and any warranty against development of hereditary problems or show-ring disqualifications in an animal intended for showing or breeding, should be in writing. The warranty should be absolutely explicit and a signed copy should be provided to each party.
Both pedigree and registration papers are provided by reputable breeders at NO extra charge. The practice of charging extra for papers is forbidden by the AKC, and should be reported. This should not be confused with withholding papers until the dog has been spayed or neutered, which is how puppies not purchased for showing/breeding are sold by many reputable breeders.

11.Make it clear that his/her responsibility continues long after you have taken your puppy home, in fact as long as the dog is alive. Many dedicated breeders will ask that the dog be returned to them, or placed with new owners who meet their approval, if ever for any reason you are unable to keep the dog. They'll cheerfully be available for advice whenever needed, and can ease your way over many rough spots.
If your breeder meets all of these requirements you are in good hands. If you find yourself with a negative response to any of these requirements, think twice and discuss the situation with someone else. DON'T be impulsive and DO ask questions.

***************************************

The same should be applied to anyone else around here who claims to be or have been a reputable breeder.

This is the end of this issue as far as I am concerned. The rest depends on whether we are dealing with a Forrest Gump situation here.
 

keyodie

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#67
ok why don't we just stop arguing? There's no use to trying to prove your opinions right or anything, because we are all going to have different opinions no matter what. So why don't we discuss this in a more POSITIVE mood, so we don't get in arguments like this?

And Dakotah, congrats again! Sorry I forgot what you were going to name the pup...
 
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#68
Manchesters said:
Well, the majority of ethical breeders who breed for the betterment of the breed, or for the betterment of their own show prospects CANNOT let a puppy go before 10-12 weeks. You bred for hunting, right? So you were not interested in the breed standard correct? The "breed standard" does not apply to hunting stock, right?
MC's... just for clarification. Bubbatd did not breed for "hunting"... don't know where you got that idea. She had good stock and bred for companion dogs and yes, some did go on to show, hunt, etc. And she always had the certifications and guarantees that come with responsible breeders. She wouldn't breed until she had a waiting list of 12-15 people. She even took one of hers back at about 3 years old when the people had kids and couldn't handle a dog anymore (Chip). So, before you go bashing Bubbatd, I wouldn't go there. AND, it seems like YOUR RULE to not let a puppy go until 10-12 weeks of age. In the real dog world, if they're THAT old, there's a problem that they haven't left the nest yet. 8 weeks is the norm. And I sure don't see the AKA saying otherwise...
 

Dakotah_2009

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#70
Man about the 2nd post you just posted, yes I do comprehend that statement. Please do NOt post on this thread again. You have made this thread horrible. With all your facts, yes I do think they're nice, but you have been taking away the space and now NO one else while post b/c of your posting.
 

Dakotah_2009

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#71
ilovemydogs said:
yeah quit argueing, it doesnt even matter as long as you take care of your dogs.

Thank the Lord that you just said that. Thanks
I agree w/ Elinhunter as well. Don't jugge people b4 you know what they are doing.
 
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#72
Dogs are worthless to breeders without pedegree papers. Most dogs do not have these. The point of having a dog to to love it and enjoy it company and to use its skills.
 

keyodie

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#73
keyodie said:
And Dakotah, congrats again! Sorry I forgot what you were going to name the pup...
*cough* *cough* eh hem... :D so what are you going to name your dog again, if you don't mind me asking?
 
M

Manchesters

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#74
OOOppppsssss

ilovemydogs said:
Dogs are worthless to breeders without pedegree papers. Most dogs do not have these. The point of having a dog to to love it and enjoy it company and to use its skills.
I seem to have inadvertently stumbled into the childrens' playground. Several of the recent posts certainly verify that fact.

Carry on kids..................
 
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#75
Manchesters said:
I seem to have inadvertently stumbled into the childrens' playground. Several of the recent posts certainly verify that fact.

Carry on kids..................
And would one of these recent posts be mine?
 

Dakotah_2009

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#76
MC ur a butthole, I would say whats on my mind but I don't wanna let the younger kids on here see it (nothing towards youngsters), but I'm nice like that.

Keyodie sorry my dog's name will be Dallas
 
M

Manchesters

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#77
Ethics

EliNHunter said:
MC's... just for clarification. Bubbatd did not breed for "hunting"... don't know where you got that idea. She had good stock and bred for companion dogs and yes, some did go on to show, hunt, etc. And she always had the certifications and guarantees that come with responsible breeders. She wouldn't breed until she had a waiting list of 12-15 people. She even took one of hers back at about 3 years old when the people had kids and couldn't handle a dog anymore (Chip). So, before you go bashing Bubbatd, I wouldn't go there. AND, it seems like YOUR RULE to not let a puppy go until 10-12 weeks of age. In the real dog world, if they're THAT old, there's a problem that they haven't left the nest yet. 8 weeks is the norm. And I sure don't see the AKA saying otherwise...
I assume you mean the AKC??????

Ethics means doing what you know is right because it is the right thing to do. Following a rule is doing what you HAVE to do to avoid trouble.

I can only assume you have never known anyone who bred for the ethicals reasons given.......improving upon the breed or improving upon the dogs the breeder has. Selling puppies is only because not every puppy is going to be show quality. However to determine that, the pup must be at least 10 weeks old in order to even begin trying to evalute such things as gait and angulation. And even eye color in some breeds.

Pet world......breeders world. Never the twain shall meet. The fault is mine for stepping into YOUR world and trying to widen some horizons. Shame on me. As to what kind of Buddatd was the more I hear the more like. Don't know, since she has not bothered to try to provide any details. And since this is a pet forum..........well, you should understand my trepidation.
 
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#79
Manchesters said:
I assume you mean the AKC??????

Ethics means doing what you know is right because it is the right thing to do. Following a rule is doing what you HAVE to do to avoid trouble.

I can only assume you have never known anyone who bred for the ethicals reasons given.......improving upon the breed or improving upon the dogs the breeder has. Selling puppies is only because not every puppy is going to be show quality. However to determine that, the pup must be at least 10 weeks old in order to even begin trying to evalute such things as gait and angulation. And even eye color in some breeds.

Pet world......breeders world. Never the twain shall meet. The fault is mine for stepping into YOUR world and trying to widen some horizons. Shame on me. As to what kind of Buddatd was the more I hear the more like. Don't know, since she has not bothered to try to provide any details. And since this is a pet forum..........well, you should understand my trepidation.
Yes. You are correct that AKA was a typo. As for the rest of your post, you make absolutely no sense. You still make no sense in your stance at no puppies leaving until 10-12 weeks. What do you do to the ones that aren't perfect? Put them to sleep? And Bubbatd can provide more details than you can ever imagine. She just happens to not be online right now.
 

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