Food for mother and pups?

Discussion in 'The Breeding Ground' started by Finkie_Mom, Jan 26, 2013.

  1. Finkie_Mom

    Finkie_Mom It's A Red Dog Revolution

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    So I have been reading (and been told) varying opinions as to what to feed a dam after whelp/what to introduce puppies to when they are old enough. Do you feed an ALS food? Puppy? Different foods to dam and pups? What brands do you prefer?

    I need to stick to kibble, and preferably nothing too difficult to get, as I would ideally be able to have puppy buyers continue with the same food. And obviously, the less expensive the better.

    Thanks for any advice and recommendations you can give!
     
  2. Flyinsbt

    Flyinsbt New Member

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    I feed a good quality kibble. For this last litter, that was Taste Of The Wild. Any good, premium kibble will be fine for a dam & pups. Be sure the fat content is high enough, dogs use fat for energy. (I wouldn't go below 14%) I don't use puppy food.

    When I wean, I get some canned food. Again, any good canned food. I don't remember what I used last time. I mix it with water at first to make a gruel that's easy for the pups to master. Reduce it to just the canned food, and then I start offering them soaked kibble. The same kibble I've been feeding the dam. After awhile, I quit soaking it, and just offer it with water over it, which is how I feed kibble to my adult dogs. This whole process doesn't take too long. The canned food is just for a few days, to get them eating solid food.
     
  3. Romy

    Romy Taxiderpy

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    Kaia got Taste of the Wild during pregnancy and lactation. When puppies got weaned they were put on powdered goat milk and baby rice cereal for two days or so, then I started adding soaked kibble to that. Over the course of a week I added less and less cereal until it was only soaked kibble.

    There was a couple of points in nursing where she majorly dropped weight and needed extra food in addition to the kibble. If your bitch is having problems with her milk supply, oatmeal and fenugreek work really well. To help keep her weight up I just doctored her oatmeal with goat milk, canned herring, scrambled eggs, peanut butter, etc. to give her extra calories.

    ETA: The puppies were started on a different kibble, because zoi puppies need 24% protein and 12-14% fat or they end up with orthopedic problems.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2013
  4. Finkie_Mom

    Finkie_Mom It's A Red Dog Revolution

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    Thank you both so much for the advice! So it seems like TOTW is the winner. I don't currently feed TOTW - is there a specific flavor that you guys use? I tried to give that as their main kibble about a year and a half ago, and neither Pen nor Bubbles like it... (Kimma is on an LID). Hopefully since Bubbles is so hungry lately, she will just eat it up. I was also thinking about Nature's Variety Instinct Chicken and Fromm Four Star Chicken or Duck... Do you think those would be comparable in case she's not a fan of the TOTW?

    Great suggestions about what to do if she drops weight while nursing, Romy!!!
     
  5. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    TOTW now goes through diamond plants, in case you want to track their recalls.

    I would do Orijen & THK if I could afford it.

    This is what my friend is transitioning her raw fed Malinois to for her litter.

    https://fbcdn-photos-a.akamaihd.net...29576_10151347093602508_1889250157_n.jpg?dl=1

    She said she's open to talk nutrition as well, she's done a lot of research and is taking exceptional care of this litter, if you're interested. She's on my FB friends list if you're interested and said I was welcome to share this photo and info. :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2013
  6. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    As for price saving I would do Fromm as a transitional food for the pups.
     
  7. Kilter

    Kilter New Member

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    A trick that works well with kibble for the puppies starting out, is to put it dry into the blender and make it into a powder. You can do a batch of it that way, then clean everything up and you're done (I know lots of people who soak it then put it into the blender, messy!!!!!). Then when you need to mix some up you can take just what you need each time and it softens up quicker too.

    Personally will be feeding the mom and litter raw, so it's already ground and ready to go. And less smelly too.

    Feed mom regular, small meals and expect she may loose fat and need to eat well for a few weeks after she's weaned...
     
  8. Flyinsbt

    Flyinsbt New Member

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    I'm sure either of those foods would be fine. My only reason for specifically picking TOTW when I did was that it was affordable, and widely distributed, so that new puppy owners could continue on it if they wanted. Since I only wound up with 2 pups, kept one, and the other went nearby, it didn't turn out to matter, but that was the logic behind it. (I also intended to send the pups home with some of the food they were eating, but I didn't bother, since the friend I placed the other pup with was feeding the same formulation of TOTW that I was at the time I gave her the pup)
     
  9. adojrts

    adojrts New Member

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    For your girl, regular diet during gestation with a tiny increase the last week or so. One thing to be very careful with is over feeding calcium during gestation which can predispose them to Eclampsia, esp with smaller breeds.
    Since I have a small breed, I start my girls on Calcium tablets the day they whelp and continue for the first 4 wks of peak lactation.
    Agreed, lots and lots of food for momma while nursing esp if she has a average to large litter. I feed cooked whole oats with an egg boiled into it, cooked chicken/turkey and beef along with free choice kibble. My girl was slow to develop milk, so I also added puppy milk replacer to her meals because I had a hard time finding goats milk. I also fed her every 4 hrs around the clock for the first 3 wks and then backed it off to every 5 hrs and so on and started the pups on adult Acana food at 5 wks of age. She nursed them until they were 10 wks old (granted only once a day for the last couple of weeks)
     
  10. Romy

    Romy Taxiderpy

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    ^^^ That's super important! I forget what calcium level in food is okay, but that's why you don't feed puppy food during pregnancy. We ran TOTW by the repro vet to be sure and she ok'd it.

    She also said to be very cautious about supplementing and had us take Kaia off the Solid Gold Seameal during the pregnancy, as seaweed was linked to pups developing low thyroid later in life. She did have me give her one folic acid tablet and two fish oil capsules (both for humans) daily throughout.

    ETA: the "version" of TOTW we feed is the Kirkland grain free food sold at Costco. Here it's $35 for a 35 lb bag, same formula/recipe as TOTW and also made by Diamond. They just slap the Costco name on it. We feed the fish one because Strider is on a limited ingredient diet and they're all really efficient on it. Moxie Collies uses the same food and formula for all their dogs too.
     
  11. Finkie_Mom

    Finkie_Mom It's A Red Dog Revolution

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    You guys are awesome :D

    Thanks a ton for everything! I'm going to buy the calcium for after whelp. I've been giving her chicken liver for folic acid, so I might just continue that? I have also decided on the Fromm Duck. I like the company, and actually would like to see if Pentti can transition to that food permanently as well. And I'm sure all three of mine would like some egg, compliments of Bubbles and nursing puppies :p
     
  12. Flyinsbt

    Flyinsbt New Member

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    Oh yeah, folic acid, don't forget that. I, also, supplemented with folic acid and fish oil. Well, I usually supplement with fish oil. That's pretty much all I did. Both my litters were small. Well, Tully had 6, but I unfortunately lost 5, so she only nursed one. Tess had 2. So they had no trouble maintaining condition during nursing. The biggest problem was convincing them it was time to wean their pups. I didn't start to wean until the pups were 5 or 6 weeks, and they were still nursing until at least 8 weeks. My preference is to leave them to do things as naturally as possible, but I'm not sure they'd ever have weaned if I left it up to the dams.
     
  13. adojrts

    adojrts New Member

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    I don't let my pups go before 10 wks of age, during the 10th week is when she stopped nursing them completely. Prior to that it could be once a day or 2-3 times a day.
     
  14. Flyinsbt

    Flyinsbt New Member

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    I forcibly weaned Tess at 8 weeks, because that is the age she was when Tully (her dam) was mauled by my neighbor's dogs (along with Elmo, my other adult SBT). Tully still wanted to nurse and care for Tess, but I was concerned that the puppy would hurt her, she was covered in bite wounds, and her neck was severely swollen from the neighbor's dog attempting to throttle her. So, poor puppy Tess had to be alone in her ex-pen for awhile, and by the time they were reunited, Tully's milk was dried up.

    I don't really remember when I weaned Tess' litter. It was more gradual.
     
  15. Romy

    Romy Taxiderpy

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    I think we weaned Kaia's at about 6 weeks or so? The reason was that it takes about a week for the maternal antibodies to leave their system, otherwise the vaccines aren't as effective. One of the puppies specifically needed to have her first shots done and effective in time for her to go home by 9 weeks because she was going to Alaska and the people who got her have to fly literally up to their doorstep to get home, and that needed to happen before the weather turned nasty.
     

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