Fish Folks Feel Free...

[CharlieDog]

to tell me more about fishes. I'm stealing my sisters aquarium when she goes to Colorado this coming week, and it's a very nice bowfront aquarium, that's very large. It's like 40 or 50 gallons, maybe bigger, but probably not by much.

I don't know what I want to put in there, or how I want to set the tank up. It's got a very nice filter, hood and bubbler system with it, but they haven't been cleaned/used in years. I know I need to go ahead and set it up asap and get some water into, so that gives me plenty of time to decide what type of fish I want to put in there.

I know I want some sort of schooling fish, and I was considering going with Endlers livebearers and fancy guppies again, but I've seen some really cool fish that were called sharks or something like that that were also a schooling fish.

If I do go with the guppies/livebearers, whats some other things I could put in there to sort of A, help control the inevitable population explosion, B, won't eat ALL the babies and C, look good and not eat the adult fishes.

I don't know if I want snails in there, but I'm going to go ahead and guess I'm going to get some free ones when I start buying plants because I want to do natural plants in there as well, but what else will help clean waste/glass, ect besides those huge ugly black fish. Though I have heard that getting those and letting them get absolutely enormous and then selling them can be profitable, I really don't like them. I'd like something smaller.

And are there shrimp that can go in a fresh water tank that wont eat my fish? I like shrimp, and I think some of them are cool looking as well, but I don't want to worry about them eating too many of my fish, nor getting eaten by anything.

Basically, I'm looking for fish/ect that will look nice, as well as something that will breed and replace themselves over time. I don't mind loosing babies, and I don't mine loosing adult fish, because I've experienced genetic bottlenecks before, so I want to be able to add new stock over time without having to cull fish. Anyway, suggestions? Advice?

Thanks!

 

[crazedACD]

to tell me more about fishes. I'm stealing my sisters aquarium when she goes to Colorado this coming week, and it's a very nice bowfront aquarium, that's very large. It's like 40 or 50 gallons, maybe bigger, but probably not by much.

I don't know what I want to put in there, or how I want to set the tank up. It's got a very nice filter, hood and bubbler system with it, but they haven't been cleaned/used in years. I know I need to go ahead and set it up asap and get some water into, so that gives me plenty of time to decide what type of fish I want to put in there.
Google the nitrogen cycle, should have some good explanations for starting a tank. If you get confused ask
I know I want some sort of schooling fish, and I was considering going with Endlers livebearers and fancy guppies again, but I've seen some really cool fish that were called sharks or something like that that were also a schooling fish.
Bala sharks school, and are relatively peaceful but they get large..around a foot.
If I do go with the guppies/livebearers, whats some other things I could put in there to sort of A, help control the inevitable population explosion, B, won't eat ALL the babies and C, look good and not eat the adult fishes.
Plenty of other fish (slightly larger than guppies) will eat the fry. You have to be careful with guppies as they can get nipped by a lot of fish, even larger tetras. Maybe some other livebearers like swordtails...they will contribute to the population but should be happy to munch the occasional fry. I love rainbowfish but they can be a little hyper and might eat shrimp. Smaller rainbowfish are lovely...praecox and forktail rainbows.
I don't know if I want snails in there, but I'm going to go ahead and guess I'm going to get some free ones when I start buying plants because I want to do natural plants in there as well, but what else will help clean waste/glass, ect besides those huge ugly black fish. Though I have heard that getting those and letting them get absolutely enormous and then selling them can be profitable, I really don't like them. I'd like something smaller.
There are smaller species! Bushynose plecos, rubbernose plecos, clown plecos. Bushynose do the best and you should be able to find albino ones if you don't like the brown. They shouldn't get more than 4-5 inches.
And are there shrimp that can go in a fresh water tank that wont eat my fish? I like shrimp, and I think some of them are cool looking as well, but I don't want to worry about them eating too many of my fish, nor getting eaten by anything.
Regular ghost shrimp might eat the guppy fry. Be careful as sometimes they are really baby prawns/whisker shrimp which are more aggressive. There are cherry shrimp, red crystal shrimp, orange, zebra...all kinds of small shrimp that do well and are fine with guppies. Might get nibbled on by bigger fish. Bamboo shrimp and vampire shrimp get to be a good size and are filter feeders, and are very cool. I had bamboo shrimp for a long time.
Basically, I'm looking for fish/ect that will look nice, as well as something that will breed and replace themselves over time. I don't mind loosing babies, and I don't mine loosing adult fish, because I've experienced genetic bottlenecks before, so I want to be able to add new stock over time without having to cull fish. Anyway, suggestions? Advice?
Livebearers are your best bet for breeding. Maybe a group of angelfish. Bushynose plecos are easy to sex when they are larger and breed readily. Cichlids (if you wanted to go aggressive) breed readily.
Thanks!

My response in red .

 

[Romy]

Endlers!!!

You should get some from this guy, because his fish are like whoa. Could you imagine how awesome they would be in a massive school?

http://swampriveraquatics.com/

His hybrids are awesome too.

With a tank that size, you could do a really spiffy black water setup for them. I'd go with heavy planting because it looks awesome too, but don't know if you want to deal with maintaining them.

 

[Xandra]

I recently got a betta sorority. I love it! They're all colorful, personable, they go crazy for shrimp, when I open the tank lid they start leaping out of the water, etc.

But, 40 gallons would hold a lot of bettas lol. And they wouldn't reproduce by themselves. What about some sort of cichlid?

Gives you different cichlid combos you could keep in a 40 gallon:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/cookie_cutter_40g.php

I like the malawi ones myself... but I've never kept cichlids, so I don't know how accurate that site is.


I guess those two options don't really fit your reproduction specs, huh... maybe convict cichlids? They're supposed to be prolific:

vid of some babies, just for fun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3t7XzenC4o0&feature=related

 

[crazedACD]

African cichlids will breed usually at the right size/combo. I had some breed in the tank at work, really I think the only ones that have ever survived.

Actually cherry shrimp and endlers or guppies would have lots of babies.

 

[~Tucker&Me~]

Personally, I picked up some Koi Swordtails and have been loving them. I would even offer to ship you some of the babies if it didn't cost me an arm and a leg. If you go guppies, go endlers for sure. They tend to be healthier, hardier and less likely to get bullied than regular guppies and come in some brilliant colours.

My suggestions for a tank would be as follows:

1. Schooling species (pencil fish are what I currently have, and I love them because they are less common than all the tetras and imo they school much tighter which looks fantastic)
2. Clean-up crew (I think you can't beat a school of 6+ corydoras, cute as all hell, playful, and do a great job collecting scraps)
3. Algae control (I love otocinclus and if they are in a school of 6 or so they show lots of interesting natural behaviours, and in addition to otos, I would get a handful of amano shrimp since shrimp appeal to you and these guys get a little bigger than cherries and crystals)
4. Centerpiece (personally, I don't think you can beat a pair of dwarf cichlids for colour and interesting behaviour, and it is always awesome to see cichlids spawn. Having said that, you could also make endlers your centerpiece or do a combo of the two)

Most other fish in the tank will eat your guppy fry, and if you want to save a few you could always invest in a floating breeder box to shelter the babies in for the first few weeks. Having a well-planted aquarium is also very helpful and will make fish feel safer and display more natural behaviour.

Here are some photo examples of the species I talked about:

Corydoras (in this case, duplicareous corydoras, which is one of the types I keep and one of my favourites as far as looks go): http://www.planetcatfish.com/images/mid(r)/callichthyidae/corydoras/duplicareus/9.jpg

Amano Shrimp: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubweb...IX/FW shrimp/Caridina multidentata CT (2).jpg

Pencilfish (Beckford's, the type I keep, but also google coral red as they are gorgeous):http://www.fishlinkworldwide.com/fish/products_pictures/pencilfish1.jpg

Dwarf Cichlid (two examples, first is German Blue Rams or Microgeophagus Ramirezi , second is Apistogramma cacatuoides): http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2...e_german_blue_ram_by_finaljenemba-d2z8vze.jpg and http://aquadomik.ru/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Apistogramma_cacatuoides_2.jpg

Let us know what you think/decide! I love planning tanks

 

[~Tucker&Me~]

Here is a photo I found of a Koi Swordtail:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b264/fishead420/IMG_2218.jpg

 

[CharlieDog]

I really love the Koi swordtails! Those are beautiful!! Do they school as well?

I'm really digging the pencilfish as well. Maybe a pair or three of each would work out okay, and I really really like both types of dwarf cichlids you posted.

In fact, all of those suggestions are fantastic, lmao, because the corydoras and the otos I both like a lot as well.

I'll probably be planting the tank first and letting the plants get well established before adding any fish to it, and it's going to take a while to get up and running exactly how I'd like it.

I don't want the shrimp to breed though, I just wanted a few for color/interest in the tank, so that's something I didn't think about. I really do love Endlers, and those ones you posted Romy are GORGEOUS. If I do, I'll probably set up a small fry tank for them until they're big enough to not get eaten lol.

And I thought about just a very large Betta tank lol with a few females and a nice fancy male, but I don't think I'd have as much fun planning all this out lol. I really do want a nice school or two of fish.


Or I could just some of all of those lol.

As well, I have no idea how I want to do the plants. Right now there are large river rocks in the bottom of the tank, but I can change/add to that, since there is no water in it currently, now would definitely be the best time to start planning the plants to go in there, as well as how I want to arrange it. I'm not sure if I want tank decorations like driftwood and a pirate ship (I really love those lol, but some of them are incredibly cheesy too) or if I should just keep it more natural and find some stones and stone arches with a bit of driftwood or something in there.

I like the moss/grass looking stuff the shrimp are on in that picture, and there was another type of grass I really liked in someones tank, but I don't remember who's it was. Just that it was very wavy tall grass.

The only thing I don't really like is plants that will break the surface of the water.

 

[~Tucker&Me~]

I really love the Koi swordtails! Those are beautiful!! Do they school as well?

They don't school, they behave more similarly to guppies in that regard. Having said that, you want to have more females than males (like 1 male to 3 females) and it is best if you stick to one male unless you plan to create a tank with lots of plant cover or hiding spots. Since your tank is large and you want to go with plants, I think you could definitely get away with having several males.

I'm really digging the pencilfish as well. Maybe a pair or three of each would work out okay, and I really really like both types of dwarf cichlids you posted.

They never attracted me until I actually got some. Now I will probably always have a tank with a nice big school of them. They are definitely one of the best schooling species I have ever kept because they keep tightly together and look very 'clean'. I would suggest more than 4-6 total, if I was in your boat I would look at getting 6 at minimum, but I would probably shoot for 10-12. They show their best behaviour and colouring in large groups and are too shy, imo, to be kept in number less than that. Also, schooling fish really do look most impressive when in large numbers

In fact, all of those suggestions are fantastic, lmao, because the corydoras and the otos I both like a lot as well.

I'll probably be planting the tank first and letting the plants get well established before adding any fish to it, and it's going to take a while to get up and running exactly how I'd like it.

That's a good plan, and since you won't be adding everything at once you can take your time adding the different species of fish. Also just a word on the corydoras, keep in mind you do need sand to house them. They love to sift through sand and aren't really happy unless they are able to do so.

I don't want the shrimp to breed though, I just wanted a few for color/interest in the tank, so that's something I didn't think about. I really do love Endlers, and those ones you posted Romy are GORGEOUS. If I do, I'll probably set up a small fry tank for them until they're big enough to not get eaten lol.

Amano shrimp won't raise viable shrimplets because the young need brackish water, so you don't have to worry about that with them. Other shrimp like cherries will breed but your other fish will eat most of the babies. If you tank is heavily planted a few may survive, and they will just keep your population going

And I thought about just a very large Betta tank lol with a few females and a nice fancy male, but I don't think I'd have as much fun planning all this out lol. I really do want a nice school or two of fish.


Or I could just some of all of those lol.

As well, I have no idea how I want to do the plants. Right now there are large river rocks in the bottom of the tank, but I can change/add to that, since there is no water in it currently, now would definitely be the best time to start planning the plants to go in there, as well as how I want to arrange it. I'm not sure if I want tank decorations like driftwood and a pirate ship (I really love those lol, but some of them are incredibly cheesy too) or if I should just keep it more natural and find some stones and stone arches with a bit of driftwood or something in there.

If you are looking for opinions, personally I think a natural tank looks a lot nicer. Nothing wrong with fake decorations, but from a purely aesthetic point I think driftwood (manzanita is GORGEOUS) is much nicer looking.

I like the moss/grass looking stuff the shrimp are on in that picture, and there was another type of grass I really liked in someones tank, but I don't remember who's it was. Just that it was very wavy tall grass.

It may have been jungle vals. Did it look like this?

http://plantedtanks.net/wp-content/media/Vallisneria-americana-gigantea-Jungle-Val-aquarium-2.jpg



The only thing I don't really like is plants that will break the surface of the water.

My answers in bold. Also one thing to keep in mind, depending on exactly what species of dwarf cichlid you keep, some may not be able to co-exist with guppies or swordtails. Many of the livebearers prefer water with added salt, whereas some of the more sensitive SA fish you like prefer softer water with no salt. If it were me, I would do a tank with the aforementioned species OR a guppy/livebearer tank. Or, a tank with each If you decide you like the species I mentioned, you could go for a stocking list like this:

12 Pencilfish
6 Corydoras
6 Otocinclus
10 Shrimp
2 Dwarf Cichlids

With that list, you still have some room to play with and could add in more fish to the current schools you would have or even acquire some different species. Lots of possibilities opcorn:

Keep us updated!

 

[CharlieDog]

Do you think if I halved the amount of shrimp I could add a few swordtails? I'd like to have maybe one or two males and four or so females.

I'll have to figure out which dwarfs would coexist peacefully with schooling fish. I really like both of those you posted earlier, but I know nothing about them really.

I've had the guppies and an Endlers that somehow ended up in with the guppies, I actually ended up with a crossbreed strain of them, but I never added salt to their water at all, it was just from the tap and cycled through. Would not having salt affect them somehow? I don't think I ever had any problems with them in established tanks at all.

My sister had a few in with some neon tetras, I think the fish had some sort of issue because the guppies ended up with some really strange spine issues and were deformed looking, but I don't know what caused/causes that.

 

[~Tucker&Me~]

Do you think if I halved the amount of shrimp I could add a few swordtails? I'd like to have maybe one or two males and four or so females.

I don't think you would need to cut the shrimp as they account for very little bioload. You could add swordtails to the numbers that I gave you with no issue, but keep in mind that they have slightly different water requirements than the other fish. You may be able to find a happy medium in terms of pH and mineral content but it really depends upon you finding the right fish. Do you know what the pH of your tap water is? If it's on the low side, you may be able to find a local breeder raising swords in those parameters with no problems.

I'll have to figure out which dwarfs would coexist peacefully with schooling fish. I really like both of those you posted earlier, but I know nothing about them really.

The majority of them will be just fine with schooling fish, at least the ones that you commonly see for sale. Most dwarfs really aren't aggressive and most schooling fish will be fast enough to escape any nit-picking the cichlid may be inclined to do.

I've had the guppies and an Endlers that somehow ended up in with the guppies, I actually ended up with a crossbreed strain of them, but I never added salt to their water at all, it was just from the tap and cycled through. Would not having salt affect them somehow? I don't think I ever had any problems with them in established tanks at all.

It depends what your water is like. My local water is very soft, around 6-6.5. This is not great for guppies and mosts tend to waste away unless we add salt and minerals. If your guppies were fine, your tap water is probably harder. Depending on how hard, this may not be ideal for some of the other fish I mentioned. Test it and let us know where the pH sits

My sister had a few in with some neon tetras, I think the fish had some sort of issue because the guppies ended up with some really strange spine issues and were deformed looking, but I don't know what caused/causes that.

THAT is a common sign of not enough salt/minerals. And that is what will happen to them if your water is too soft. Again, head to a pet store and pick up a pH kit. If you test your water you will have a good sense of it's suitability for certain species.

Answers in bold...

 

[CharlieDog]

Hmmm, okay. I'll have to pick a kit up, but I'm hoping I can find a happy medium for all of them.

My sisters water came from her well, so that could have contributed to that. We're on city water though, and last I remember it was fairly hard water at 7 or 7.5 (I think)

 

[CharlieDog]

Need to get a bigger heater and figure out what I want to do with the bottom of the tank. I'd like to get sand, but I'm not sure what color I want yet, or if I want to just add sand to the river rocks, in which case I'll stick with white.

And I need to find a replacement hood/lid thing, because the glass piece that used to be on the tank has done a runner. Can't find it anywhere.

Also have to figure out what sort of filter I want. I have an under gravel filter, but I didn't put it in there because I don't think it would work with sand. I'm not sure. Still doing a lot of research.

And I definitely need to find a better place to find plants. The selection at petsmart and petco is pitiful.