Fear aggressive Pit Bulls

Discussion in 'Dogs - General Dog Chat' started by PitBullLove, Nov 13, 2013.

  1. Southpaw

    Southpaw orange iguanas.

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    I'm not sure why this is so bothersome to you. If for YEARS my dog has never growled at someone, and all of a sudden one day did growl at someone, why would that not be shocking/surprising? I'd be shocked if my dog jumped on the counter or excitedly peed when someone came over. Doesn't mean my dog is a robot and I don't let her be a dog or something asinine like that. It means.... I'm surprised you just did that because that's not a reaction you've ever had before. Easy.
     
  2. Dogdragoness

    Dogdragoness Happy Spring!!!!

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    I try not to be "shocked" when my dogs do things OOC, because heck I do things that are OOC sometimes :p so I try not to be surprised when they have a "weird" day.
     
  3. Flyinsbt

    Flyinsbt New Member

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    I am another person who would be quite shocked if my dogs growled at somebody, and for the same reason... it's very out of character, they never have. I would sure want to know what precipitated that odd behavior.

    For that matter, I was shocked when my Pirate first growled at his litter sister, Eva. As I recall, we thought it was a fluke at first, and tried again to set them near each other for a photo, but he definitely had a negative opinion of that, so we just have never had the 2 of them out together again. It was shocking because Pirate had never shown any aggression to any other dog, before or since, other than the large mixed breed dog that ran up and threatened my dogs, and he was protecting the girls then. His growl at his sister was unprovoked, as far as we could see, but if he doesn't like her, he doesn't like her, we're not going to force the issue. If he ever growls at another dog, I will not be so shocked, because he's now shown the ability to be selective. I'll be surprised, because it's still not his usual way, but at least there's a precedence.
     
  4. *blackrose

    *blackrose "I'm kupo for kupo nuts!"

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    As everyone else has said...shocked does not equal dismayed. It just means that it isn't normal for my dogs. My dogs are allowed to express their opinions...but expressing their opinions through growling is NOT normal for them, and it would worry me if it was something that started because it *is* abnormal for them.

    Don't get me wrong. Cynder doesn't get her ears blow dried after baths because she has explicitly told me that she does not tolerate it via throwing a fit. She can have that opinion, and we've come to an understanding that she holds still and behaves herself for every other part of the drying process and I won't blow the air on her ears. But say one day she flips out when I trim her nails and she's never done so before - it would surprise me and I'd be looking for a cause. Same would go for if she growled at something.
     
  5. Shakou

    Shakou New Member

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    Charlotte growling at a person would be the equivalent of finding out my grandma is an axe murderer. Yeah, I'd be shocked.
     
  6. Danefied

    Danefied New Member

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    No, it’s not being shocked that the dog expressed an opinion, it’s having a dog who acts one way his/her entire life and then acts out of character, yes, it would take anyone off guard.

    Bates is a rude, PITA, obnoxious dog who has NO issue expression his opinion :D
    He muzzle punches me, has no problem raking a claw down my thigh to get me to get off the sofa and do something with him. He also has a lovely repertoire of growls and whines and even whine/bark to communicate with us that he wants something and he wants it now.
    He can be iffy with other dogs, does not put up with rude or stupid at all, he regularly makes puppies widdle on themselves, he can be a big old jerk.

    It would not shock me in the least if Bates ended up in a scuffle with another dog and poked some holes in the other dog. It would not shock me in the least if Bates had an issue with other dogs, small furries, hell, even large furries.
    However, if he were to growl with displeasure at a human, yes, I would be shocked.

    As obnoxious as he is, he is also ridiculously tolerant, has a huge pain threshold, and the patience of a saint. He’s had a visiting kid cartwheel across the room and fall on top of him while he was eating, and his reaction was to grunt as they both crashed to the floor, then he pulled himself out from under said kid, licked the kid’s face, then returned to finishing his meal, completely unperturbed.
    Another time on a therapy visit, a patient either seized or had a moment of delusion, and grabbed Bates' thigh hard enough to make him yelp. Again, he yelped and scooted away, but made no move to defend or aggress towards the human. He also recovered from that really quickly, no lasting effects.
    We’ve washed out a hole in his side that showed his ribs, picked pieces of wood and dirt out of it, all unrestrained, un-sedated, no pain killers, he whimpered a little :)() but made absolutely zero move to use teeth or even suggest the use of teeth.

    It’s not that he doesn’t have the “right†to react negatively to those situations, it’s just that he never has. So were he to growl in a similar situation, yes it would shock me. Not because I expect robotic compliance from him (good LOL there for anyone who knows me and my dogs), not because I’m being grossly unfair and whatever else you’re accusing us of, but simply because it would be completely out of character for this dog and my experiences with him.

    Just as some people seem to have the patience of saints and never get angry, some dogs are the same way. So yeah, if your Mother Teresa neighbor suddenly went off on a rant dropping f-bombs, no matter how “justified†the rant, you would be shocked. Same with those dogs who we’ve never known to have an angry or defensive moment in certain contexts.
     
  7. frostfell

    frostfell Kung Pow Fish

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    growling is communication, its not aggression. THIS is the mentality that drives me batty about this entire thing. this belief that the dog is being some jerkwad asshole, and not that its communicating a desire for space/cessation of something/whatever. "HOW DARE YOU OBJECT TO SOMETHING I WANT BECAUSE I AM THE HUMAN AND YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE SAME THOUGHTS AS ME" is all im seeing here, when people flip their **** over their dogs saying "no" to anything. thats all a growl is. a "no"
     
  8. Taqroy

    Taqroy Active Member

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    Are you even reading the same thread as everyone else?

    Edited to remove mostly unnecessary snarkiness.
     
  9. Emily

    Emily Rollin' with my bitches

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    I think everyone has been pretty clear that it's not about the dog not being allowed to communicate or have feelings, it's about the dog doing something that's super unusual for that dog, and any time a dog acts way out of the ordinary, especially suddenly, that can warrant concern, as it may indicate a medical issue or other problems.

    The dog is allowed to express discomfort. The owner is also allowed to be concerned that the dog is suddenly uncomfortable with something he/she has loved and been very comfortable with previously, because it's a sudden change and it's out of character. Not because the dog is bad or wrong for doing so.

    I don't know how to make that any clearer?
     
  10. JessLough

    JessLough Love My Mutt

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    I don't think you're reading the same thread as everybody else. That, or you don't know what shocked means.

    If something is out of the ordinary, somebody is going to be shocked. If something is out of the ordinary for somebody's dog, yes, they are going to be shocked. Shocked /= OMG INAPPROPRIATE YOU ARE NEVER EVER EVER ALLOWED TO DO THAT YOU ARE A HUGE ASSHOLE WHO SHOULD DIE, which you seem to think it does.


    Once, I took both Ren and Rascal to the vet. They were in the same carrier, which the vets then took to the back to do a basic blood draw on each of them (I had Rosey with me too, it was easier that way). They shortly after brought the carrier back, telling me that Rascal was hissing and guarding and not allowing them to even get their hand into the carrier. I was absolutely shocked. Because Rascal was so "ok, I love you, do whatever you want, friend" to absolutely everybody, it was so very out of character for him. Was it wrong? No, it was HIS CARRIER and strangers were trying to put their hand in it. I was still shocked, since it was so out of character for him. (and, as it turns out, they were talking about Renegade, not Rascal -- who I completely understood that behaviour from).

    He was communicating his displeasure, which was shocking, since he just.. never did. Should he have died for it? lol no. Should he have been punished for it? No. But, neither of those are what being shocked means.



    If I always went and said hi to a friend when they showed up, without problem, and then one day I went to say hi and they said "you better leave before I punch you in the face", yah, I'm going to be shocked. :p
     
  11. Beanie

    Beanie Clicker Cult Coordinator

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    Oddly enough, your first sentence is correct - a growl is communication. But this statement is incorrect. It's not always a "no."
    Ever hear a dog growl during play?
     
  12. sassafras

    sassafras mushinois

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    Nobody's saying they would think their dog was being a jerkwad asshole for growling, they're just saying they'd be surprised if a dog who didn't normally growled in a certain context growled in that context. And if you noticed, most if not all of them said they would investigate to see if they could figure out why - that is "Oh gosh, something must be wrong because Fluffy doesn't normally growl in this situation!" vs "JERKWAD YOU DON'T GET TO GROWL EVERRRRRRR."

    Honesty I'd be surprised if Maisy ever growled at a human being. I wouldn't be mad and I don't think she doesn't have a right to, but she is not the kind of dog that says "no" to people. If she were a person, she'd be a people pleasing doormat. So yea, it would be very very surprising. Not sure why it's bad to be surprised by a dog doing something out of character? Especially when an owner uses that as information to investigate if the dog has a new problem like pain, illness, etc?
     
  13. Beanie

    Beanie Clicker Cult Coordinator

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    For the record Payton growled at Auggie's dad a few weekends ago, and it was because he was being a jerkwad asshole.
    But it didn't surprise me though, because I know he's a jerkwad asshole.
     
  14. Flyinsbt

    Flyinsbt New Member

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    I'm not flipping anything, nobody here was. And yes, growling is communication, it's aggressive communication. At least in this case (as has been pointed out, sometimes it's play), it was clear "I don't like that bitch" communication, and once we understood that was what he was saying, that was that. Pirate is not a jerkwad asshole, he's a very sweet and tolerant dog who just doesn't happen to like his sister. That's fine, he doesn't have to like her. But it did shock me when he let us know that, because he had never shown any dislike for another dog before.

    Now, if Tess growled at another dog, I wouldn't be shocked at all, because she's a bitch like that. If she went up to a strange dog all waggy and friendly and tried to initiate play, I'd be so shocked I might not survive the experience, because she really isn't fond of other dogs. She's not what I'd call dog aggressive, if she's off leash, she will avoid other dogs. But if she was acting like she was stricken with love for a dog she'd never met before, I would be absolutely dumbfounded.
     
  15. Dogdragoness

    Dogdragoness Happy Spring!!!!

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    LOL yes a growl can be doggish for "stop being a jerk wad asshole", a growl can also be used playfully, much like when people horseplay with each other and use "aggression" playfully.

    The casual dog owner would be shocked to hear my dogs playing because it sounds like they are killing each other. I think it's not as much about the context of the growl as it is about how people interpret the growl in question and the situation surrounding it.
     
  16. sassafras

    sassafras mushinois

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    Pip grumbles and growls and huffs and trills and barks all the livelong day. He's a dog who believes in telling the world how he feels, frequently and emphatically. Sure it might be a warning, but it might be complaining or he might want his breakfast and I'm taking too long. He might be being a jerkwad or he might be impatient or he might be really anxious. It depends entirely on the context.

    I'd almost rather be shocked that a dog growled, at least it registers that something is probably actually wrong beyond a dog three yards away doing something he disapproves of.
     
  17. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    I would be shocked if Summer growled at a human. She's just so incredibly passive and human friendly. I've never seen an ounce of anything like that aimed at a human (she does growl at Mia and Beau on occasion when they're obnoxious). Not that I think she'd be WRONG to growl in the right circumstances but she's just so friendly and passive.

    Mia on the other hand growls quite often. She's very... Vocal about what she thinks and she over analyzes things. She growls when people are doing things out of place because it spooks her. Shes also a jerk to other dogs too. So with her growling is normal. Shes also a grumbler or complainer and will by golly let you know! Nikki was another growler and grumbler. She used to growl and snark the whole way out the door if you woke her up during a nap to go potty. She's let you know her opinions about that lmao. Neither Mia nor Nikki are generally warning with a growl. With Mia it's usually 'I'm not comfortable, I want to get away'. Nikki was usually 'I want to let you know you're a jerk' lol. When Trey growled it meant serious sh$t was about o go down and you needed to BACK OFF.

    Summer just has ZERO of that edge so it would be weird to me if Summer reacted towards a person in any way other than 'omg I LOVE you! Hold me please!'
     
  18. Shakou

    Shakou New Member

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    The ONE TIME in 7 years I've ever seen Charlotte act in any way negative towards a person, she timidly ducked her head away from their hand and slinked behind me. It was a guy on the street who was drunk. She's NEVER growled at a person. And to be clear, like others have said, if she did, I wouldn't hold it against her, but I would be very shocked and want to know why.
     
  19. *blackrose

    *blackrose "I'm kupo for kupo nuts!"

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    Oh, and I lied...Abrams does growl. When he is super happy anx excited and playing he will let out a growl. It scares some people because they think he's being aggressive or possessive, but in reality, he's just very happy!
     
  20. Romy

    Romy Taxiderpy

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    I'd be shocked if I won the lottery. Dismay has nothing to do with it. ;)

    Strider rumbles and growls constantly. It's his voice, and whatever. He growls when he plays, when he says hi, when he's ticked off, etc. It's pretty rare that he's doing an F-U! growl, and those you can tell because of his body language.

    Kaia NEVER growls. I would be shocked to hear her growl, and would probably rush in and make an appointment with a vet right away to make sure she wasn't sick or injured. Either that, or be highly suspicious of whoever she's growling at.
     

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