Fear aggressive Pit Bulls

Discussion in 'Dogs - General Dog Chat' started by PitBullLove, Nov 13, 2013.

  1. SevenSins

    SevenSins APBTs & One Crazy Banana

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    Oh I never claimed there wasn't a difference in mechanism. There is no difference in affect. I don't know of many dog or cat owners whose animals have been severely injured or killed by sighthounds that thought, "whew, it's a good thing my pet was killed by a Greyhound and not one of those Pit Bulls!" There just happens to be a higher population of dogs that an APBT will willingly engage vs. a typical sighthound, if given the opportunity. Both require a level of management, neither are a fault in their respective breeds, and neither translate to human aggression.

    And Dogdragoness, you'd be surprised. And none of my dogs are a "ticking DA time bomb." That's implying unpredictability. My dogs are predictably DA. If anything, your dog who selectively decides which dogs they want to maim or kill is the "ticking time bomb."
     
  2. SevenSins

    SevenSins APBTs & One Crazy Banana

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    To expand on this and the thought of different traits in different breeds, point being that people should be extra cautious with their pets around APBTs, and any other high prey drive breed (DA is partially a modified/intensified form of the same prey drive all terriers possess). In much the same way that people should be extra cautious about approaching a breed like a Fila improperly, because a degree of HA is commonplace in the breed. People should not have to be cautious around APBTs in that way, and so it's not "the same" as DA in the breed, just as an APBT level of DA (or even sighthound level prey drive) in a Golden Retriever would be completely unacceptable.
     
  3. Aleron

    Aleron New Member

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    Where I live, a dog who kills another dog is legally considered a dangerous dog, just like a dog who attacks a person.

    I totally agree with this. It seems pretty silly to suggest that a pit bull killing another dog doesn't further harm the breed's image. Actually if anything, most of the public doesn't view dog aggression and human aggression separately, so the reaction to a pit bull killing another dog would likely be along the "OMG next time it could be a child!" than "well at least it's only dog aggressive". Also, whenever there is a dogfight, there is a risk of people being badly bitten trying to break it up.

    Yes dog aggression is part of the breed and that is a big part of what makes them so problematic for pet owners IMO. The average owner has a hard time managing serious dog or human aggression.

    I do think prey issues with small dogs is a bit different. It is a lot easier to manage anyway, since the issue tends to specifically involve the prey driven dog running loose with small dogs.

    Sounds about right to me.

    Hopefully you don't allow your little dog to go say hi to strange dogs in general?

     
  4. Dogdragoness

    Dogdragoness Happy Spring!!!!

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    If you label Josefina as unpredictable then you have to think of every dog who is "selectively" prey driven OR "selectively" DA is also equally unpredictable.
     
  5. PitBullLove

    PitBullLove Member

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    Okay, so since you assume I have handled him incorrectly in the past, it makes me incapable of learning how to handle him 'correctly' in the future, making me the wrong owner for him. Mmmmm typical Chaz. Thanks for your opinions guys!
     
  6. sillysally

    sillysally Obey the Toad.

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    I think you are being a bit unfair. There were only a few posts that suggested anything close to that...
     
  7. Polecatty

    Polecatty New Member

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    I would consider this a major problem. My sighthound knows that small dogs are dogs and not prey. She is not at all prey driven towards other dogs of any size, nor would I find it acceptable for her to be so.
     
  8. JennSLK

    JennSLK F150 and a .30-06

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    While some sight hounds may be like this the majority of them with high drive will case down and probably kill a small living animal. Off topic but it comes with knowing your breed. For example I wouldn't get a male Doberman with another male dog in the house. Most pit bulls need to be in one dog households or crate/rotate, sight hounds chase small fast moving animals, ect...

    More people need to know what they are getting into and that some of these breed traits can NOT always be trained out
     
  9. Polecatty

    Polecatty New Member

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    This is so funny to me!

    I've seen many working sighthounds and as a general rule they are quite safe with other dogs and are often expected to work loose alongside small breeds. You won't make many friends on a fox drive if your staghound is picking up people's terriers and spaniels!
     
  10. Romy

    Romy Taxiderpy

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    My sight hounds are generally good with other smaller dogs, but the example given was greyhound. Most greyhounds in this country never see a non greyhound dog breed in their lives, much less a small dog, until they're off the racetrack. For many of them they're already 4+ years old when that happens.
     
  11. Polecatty

    Polecatty New Member

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    Yes, track dogs are a very different animal, aren't they? I would hesitate to tar sighthounds in general with the behaviour that some track dogs exhibit, though, as their rearing is quite unique and doesn't always promote mental stability. I've never seen the same issues in coldblood greys.
     
  12. Dogdragoness

    Dogdragoness Happy Spring!!!!

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    Just like track HORSES are also a whole different animal that suffer with a lot lf the same problems as greyhounds (aggression/ lack of social skills with other horses, fearfulness of "different" looking horses like paints, Appaloosas and even palominos ).

    So no I don't think that it's fair to Judge an entire breed or animal using racing animals as the "standard" for typical behavior.
     
  13. PitBullLove

    PitBullLove Member

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    You are right, I was. I'm sorry, I was just hurt by those comments.
    I did contact a certified animal behaviorist, first evaulation (2 hrs) is $250, so I am going with that.
     
  14. Romy

    Romy Taxiderpy

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    Try having a service dog accompany you everywhere. It's literally impossible to stop a determined human without laying your hands on them. I've had children and even adults duck around me, through my legs (kids not adults, lol) to reach my dog and physically touch him. I've gotten loud and rude, and people have gotten loud and rude back, AND physically pushy.

    "What you do mean STOP!?! My son is friendly, he just wanted to say hi to your dog! If people can't say hi he shouldn't be in public!"


    *megafacepalm*

    And please don't say it's not because I wasn't assertive enough. It just . . . yeah. That definitely wasn't it. It would have taken putting closed hands on their bodies to make them stop. Not something I'm willing to risk when my dog isn't a bite risk and they're just being rude and pushy. I can't imagine having a high bite risk dog with people like that out there.
     
  15. ruffiangirl

    ruffiangirl New Member

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    This, so much this, it doesn't really matter if anyone who has posted in this thread knows that THEY could deal with it, what really matters is weather, you the owner can deal with it. Do you want to spend the rest of your dogs life on guard for him? Want to aside CAN you? You have roommates currently, is it possible for you to move somewhere with just your dogs? From the sounds of it much of his life is going to need to be controlled, from walk times (which you do already) to who is allowed to interact with him an how. Many people who deal with dogs like this don't go on vacations, ever, are you willing to do that? It can be very limiting to you as well as the dog.
     
  16. kady05

    kady05 Active Member

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    Well this thread has been interesting, to say the least. I have to say, I'm pretty surprised at the amount of people who think it's almost.. acceptable, for a dog to bite if its collar is grabbed..

    For the record, I can't even begin to tell you how many times children have run up on my dogs without giving me much reaction time. I am so thankful that all of my dogs are trustworthy around people (FWIW, they are all extremely dog friendly as well). If I had any inclination that they weren't, they wouldn't be around long.

    OP sounds like a responsible Pit Bull owner and I think she knows what the right decision is here.
     
  17. crazedACD

    crazedACD Active Member

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    What area are you in? That seems a little steep, for just an evaluation (and training plan?). How much are additional sessions, are you able to continue with them? Sorry, there are as many greedy and poor trainers as there are BYB. Just want to make sure you get set up in a program that will work, that you can afford to maintain.
     
  18. Danefied

    Danefied New Member

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    PitBullLove, I wish you the best no matter what you decide. Whatever you chose, you’re damned if you do, damned if you don’t in the court of dog folks opinions, so IMHO it’s best to make an educated choice based on what is realistic for you and your unique situation and then just suck it up and do it.


    Aside from wishing PitBullLove well, I just want to touch on the predation vs. aggression thing. Yes, predatory behavior lights up an entirely different part of the brain than aggressive behavior, however the end result is still the same. I sure don’t think the media gives a hoot about representing that accurately in any of their reports of cute fluffy dogs being killed by big mean non-fluffy dogs with big heads.

    And other than in cases where there are 14 dog experts watching the situation unfold, how sure can we be that those “out of the blue†attacks where those docile family pets suddenly turned are aggression or a classic case of predatory drift?

    Thing is, since the first wild canid crept up to the caveman’s fire (I don’t know if it happened this way but it does in my mind, so bear with me), dogs have evolved alongside humans and are hardwired to have a natural inhibition towards biting humans. At the same time, dogs have never lost their predator genes. We have definitely tweaked those genes in to stalking, herding, retrieving, pointing, etc., but the predator is still in there.

    Because of the above, to me, it will always be a bigger issue if a dog (of any breed) is not averse to biting humans than if that dog has no aversion to killing other critters including other dogs. And yes, of course I take in to account the kind of bite and the situation surrounding the bite.
     
  19. frostfell

    frostfell Kung Pow Fish

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    i also want to interject, after reading this topic with interest for several days, that do not be so hasty to fall into the trap of thinking that teeth=aggression, like so many, ESPECIALLY pit bull people, do. especially in the pit bull/bull breeds, the mantra has gone from "they are gentle to people, vicious to other dogs" to a far-out batty "no pit bull should lay teeth on humans for ANY REASON!!!!!!!11one" which is unfair and unrealistic, as mouths are a major means of communication, and teeth are like hands. i would not, for example, treat a dog grabbing my hand in his mouth and "leading" me to his toybox, as aggression-punishable-by-death. we all see videos of people harassing their own dogs, oblivious to the whispers, knowing a shout (bite) is coming soon. imagine if we treated each other in the same way? deaf until somebody raises their voice, and then executing any people who shout. thats ALL biting is. A SHOUT. when nothing else worked, or when its warranted, its a raising of the voice

    why would you kill somebody for raising their voice?
     
  20. BostonBanker

    BostonBanker Active Member

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    I can not imagine living in a place where everyone in the world is running up to touch my dogs. Is it really like that? Half the time when I take dogs out specifically for socialization, people just smile and make eye contact after looking at the dog. I have only once had someone grab a dog without asking, and it was an adult woman. Most tiny kids I see are scared of dogs, and once they are old enough to speak, they are better than adults about asking to pet them.

    Perhaps it is a regional thing, like spaying/neutering, where the education has just really infiltrated the north-east. I'm trying to think of a time where a person has ever touched either of my dogs without permission, or would have had to grab them because of a slipped collar/getting loose. Nothing. The incidence above was when a friend and I took a puppy to an outdoor marketplace for socialization, and had our backs turned for a second looking at a menu. Not something I would do with either of my dogs, for various reasons, but a nice place to socialize a puppy.

    I realize it isn't the main issue for the OP, just the comments that seem baffling to me.

    And I do have a dog that I might have considered a bite risk if he was grabbed by the collar or picked up without warning. Gusto growled several times over such things, and would head-whip, although he never tried to bite. I did a ton of counter-conditioning, so now I can pick him up without complaint, and he plays collar grab games regularly. I expect he would not react if someone else picked him up as well, but to be honest, I just don't put him in that position.

    I think the OP is doing the right thing by taking the dog to a behaviorist; these things are far too sensitive to be decided over the internet by people who have never seen the dog. I wish you luck with your appointment and hope it helps you find answers you are comfortable with, whichever way it goes.
     

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