Faulty/Undesirable Colors

Discussion in 'The Dog Breeds' started by Lyzelle, Oct 20, 2012.

  1. Saeleofu

    Saeleofu Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2009
    Messages:
    9,036
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    I'm going to take a stab and say dalamtians ;)
     
  2. Lyzelle

    Lyzelle New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Messages:
    2,826
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Colorado
    Lol, I wasn't sure. I didn't know Dalmatians could come in any other color besides Black and White.
     
  3. Xandra

    Xandra Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2009
    Messages:
    3,806
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    For GSD's

    Dilutes and whites are the big no-no's. I guess pandas deserve a special mention though I believe that is techinically a pattern not a color? Other colors aren't allowed but I don't think they really show up. So yeah. Whites and dilutes.
     
  4. Saeleofu

    Saeleofu Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2009
    Messages:
    9,036
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Unless you're in UKC...sooooo many whites, even in the show ring. I have yet to see a dilute in person, and I don't know if UKC allows them or not, but I don't care for them from what I've seen in pictures. I don't care for the pandas either.
     
  5. Moth

    Moth Mild and Slightly Nutty

    Joined:
    May 9, 2011
    Messages:
    5,037
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Occupation:
    3
    Location:
    Madison, WI
    Basenji's

    Color
    Chestnut red; pure black; tricolor (pure black and chestnut red); or brindle (black stripes on a background of chestnut red); all with white feet, chest and tail tip. White legs, blaze and collar optional. The amount of white should never predominate over primary color. Color and markings should be rich, clear and well-defined, with a distinct line of demarcation between the black and red of tricolors and the stripes of brindles.

    I should mention that they also allow trindles which are tris with brindling in their red markings. This is actually what Watson's coloration is.

    In their native land of Africa you will see dogs that are sable & white and lemon & white, but they are not considered allowed colors here.

    Shar Pei

    Color
    Only solid colors and sable are acceptable and are to be judged on an equal basis. A solid color dog may have shading, primarily darker, down the back and on the ears. The shading must be variations of the same body color and may include darker hairs throughout the coat. The following colors are disqualifications: Albino; Not a solid color, i.e.: Brindle; Parti-colored; Spotted; Patterned in any combination of colors.

    The amazing thing about this is that Peis do come in brindle, Parti-colored or spotted (called a flowered Shar Pei) and even in black and tan...but those colors as mentioned are a DQ in the ring.
     
  6. Red.Apricot

    Red.Apricot Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2011
    Messages:
    2,984
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Southern California
    Tervs are sable with a black mask, and the AKC only allows reds. I'm pretty sure they go from yellow-y sort of red through dark rich red-red, with little-to-tons of blackening on the back. There can be a little white on the toes and a small white patch on the chest, and I think the tip of the tail has to be black?

    This is from memory, so I may have messed something up.
     
  7. Pops2

    Pops2 New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2008
    Messages:
    3,072
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    none
    Location:
    UT
    if a color or pattern is mentioned in the standard it's because it happens in the breed even if it's not desirable. if it isn't mentioned it is because the color doesn't appear in a purebred representative of the breed. for example merle in pitbulldogs, no such thing as a merle bulldog & none of the british terriers came in merle so merle wasa clear indication of mixed breeding. therefore merle simply isn't mentioned in the standard, unlike B & T.
     
  8. Barbara!

    Barbara! New Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2012
    Messages:
    1,457
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    So I learned something today. Lol. Do reputable breeders breed white GSD's?
     
  9. Keechak

    Keechak Aussie Obssessed

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2012
    Messages:
    770
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    20
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Home Page:
    This isn't entirely true tho I would definitely call it a "guideline" and is true about 80% of the time.

    Purebred Aussies also come in "ee Yellow" and "AyAy Sable" but neither of those colors is specifically mentioned in the standard.
     
  10. Flyinsbt

    Flyinsbt New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2012
    Messages:
    886
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    3
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    The tan-point pattern is an autosomal recessive. One theory as to why it's forbidden is that the people writing the standard believed that it would dominate the other colors if allowed, but we really don't know why they didn't want it. It's also not a disqualification in the mother country, it's "highly undesirable" (as is liver). Which effectively means it might as well be a DQ, since a dog couldn't be successfully shown in the UK with a trait so listed. The competition is too stiff.

    When the US standard was formulated, I believe I've heard that the AKC wanted there to be a disqualification, so the undesirable colors were listed as a DQ. It makes it more in line with the country of origin anyway, since if they were just "undesirable" here, dogs of those colors would still finish.

    Blue is a controversial color, since it is not possible for a blue dog to have the black nose required in the standard. It also wasn't in the original standard, it was added in the 1948 revision. It was very rare until recently, when it's become a fad color, to many people's chagrin. A blue Stafford has never finished a UK championship, since the competition there is too stiff for a dog with such an obvious fault to finish. There are plenty of US blue champions, though. Since it's pretty easy to finish a dog here.
     
  11. release the hounds

    release the hounds Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2008
    Messages:
    4,381
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Occupation:
    7
    Location:
    Midwest
    sure they are, just ask them :)
     
  12. chaospony

    chaospony New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2011
    Messages:
    637
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    3 dogs, 1 cat and several frogs
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    The Afghan hound standard states "All colors are permissible, but color or color combinations are pleasing; white markings, especially on the head, are undesirable."

    ......then someone posts pictures of black and white Afghan hounds and the angry mob attacks with accusations of spaniels and border collie crosses. :(

    But Afghan hounds come in pretty much any color you can get, red, blue, silver, various Brindles and dominos. Of course people can never seem to agree wether the dog is silver or blue, red or cream!

    Fun fact though: An afghan hound's color is listed as the color of it's saddle (the short hair down their back) so a dog that appears blonde could really be considered red because it's saddle is a redder color than the rest of it.
    Other fun fact, Afghan hounds can go through amazing changes in coat color through their lives.
     
  13. frostfell

    frostfell Kung Pow Fish

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2012
    Messages:
    1,183
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Albany, New York
    American Bully
    Pretty clear cut, no fuss lol

    ABKC:
    COLOR

    • All colors and patterns are permissible except the color merle.

    Disqualifying Faults: Color Merle

    BBCR:
    COLOR

    All colors and patterns are permissible except merle
     
  14. elegy

    elegy overdogged

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2006
    Messages:
    7,720
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Home Page:
    Well, Dobes can be black, red, fawn, or blue. Do Rottweilers naturally come in any other colors? I don't know anything about Mastiffs, but I would expect they don't come in piebald because piebald does not occur in the breed.

    I understand with some breeds that only come in xyz colors because those are the colors genetically possible. What I don't understand is why certain *naturally occurring* colors are not permissible.
     
  15. Keechak

    Keechak Aussie Obssessed

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2012
    Messages:
    770
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    20
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Home Page:
    With Aussies, Sable and Yellow were not allowed because Merle can be difficult to see on those base colors and it was believe it would lead to a higher probability of unintentional merle to merle breedings. You may ask "Why not just get rid of Merle then instead of those two other colors?" Well the simple answer is that the Aussies were known as the "Little Blue dogs" it was an important identifying characteristic that had to stay.

    The English Shepherd went the other way and they decided to keep sable and yellow but ban merling. Both the Aussie and the English Shepherd had the same origins.
     
  16. Aleron

    Aleron New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2011
    Messages:
    2,269
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    several
    Location:
    NE Ohio
    Home Page:
    Color is a funny thing with the Belgians.

    The AKC standard allows for grays now but they are not preferred. In AKC, black is a DQ for Tervs...everywhere else they are Groenendael ;) Same with brown in AKC Belgian Sheepdogs...in AKC it is a DQ but everywhere else they are Tervs. AKC Belgian Sheepdogs can obviously only be black but there are some rare cases of dilutes or dogs with tan markings like bi-colors in GSDs, showing up. I have seen some excessive (for the breed) white on Groenendaels and that happens in the other varieties as well. High white socks, large white patches on the chest and neck, even one with an entirely white leg as a puppy (which turned gray as the puppy got older). Weirder is I have seen black dogs develop white patterns in old age, not typical graying but clear very white patterns. Dilutes can also happen in the other varieties. There is a possibility for Black Mals too, although most examples I have seen have been KNPV bred dogs so not entirely Malinois. And in an oops litter someone had with a Mal and Groen.

    PyrSheps come in just about every color but excessive white, poor pigmentation and copper points are not allowed.
     
  17. YodelDogs

    YodelDogs New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2006
    Messages:
    479
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Georgia
    Home Page:
    Although it is extremely rare, Rottweilers that are red with tan points do occur. Long hair Rotts can pop up, too.
     
  18. PlottMom

    PlottMom The Littlest Hound

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2009
    Messages:
    2,835
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    4 dogs
    Location:
    SoCal
    UKC says they must have a "fine streaked or striped effect" (actually the NPHA says that & UKC has to go with it ;) ) any color's cool, including black with brindle trim... what you CAN'T have is a solid color or more than a little white on the toes & chest.

    Now, when AKC got hold of the standard a few years ago, they said solid black & buckskins are cool...
     
  19. Lyzelle

    Lyzelle New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Messages:
    2,826
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Colorado
    Mastiffs can have quite a bit of white. They discourage it because of the fear of white=deafness and other health issues(of which they already have plenty of). Strong coloring is preferred, too. The blacker the mask the better. On brindles it's the clearer the brindle the better, I believe. But "clear" doesn't necessarily mean light, if that makes sense. Just very defined, not muddy. Brindles usually have the most white, though, which is why they were highly discouraged until recent years.

    But white from the bottom up does occur now and then.

    All this talk of brindle actually has me thinking. I don't believe I've ever heard of a brindle Sibe. But I don't think it's ever been said that it can't happen.
     
  20. Saeleofu

    Saeleofu Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2009
    Messages:
    9,036
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Boxers - fawn, brindle, fawn and white, brindle and white. Black/black and white isn't really black, it's "reverse brindle". White, or too much white, are not allowed. They happen, though, even with reputable breeders, as a side effect of flashy white markings.
     

Share This Page