Fake service dogs

Discussion in 'Dogs - General Dog Chat' started by Shakou, Feb 20, 2013.

  1. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    As a previous SD handler (medically prescribed) I actually side with the "it's not the fakers, it's the training of the dog" side.

    A UD/TDI dog that quietly strolls without notice is going to be less hurtful to you than some of my clients in Vegas who had doctor prescribed dogs. We were there to assist owner trained dogs but some days it was amazing how little they would listen and how hurtful these handlers could be to the cause and yet these were (sometimes "more") valid teams.
     
  2. ~Jessie~

    ~Jessie~ Chihuahua Power!

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    This this this!
     
  3. Saeleofu

    Saeleofu Active Member

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    They are not mutually exclusive. A poorly trained service dog does not belong in public. A well trained pet does not belong in public. BOTH are illegal.
     
  4. CharlieDog

    CharlieDog Rude and Not Ginger

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    This is what I've been thinking the entire thread.
     
  5. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    While I don't disagree I do find myself far less concerned with the alternative to the badly trained and managed dogs. Truth be told with many of these "fakers" is their dogs can be equally as task trained as, per say, mine. The then sticky situation turns to what makes their dogs accompaniment any less valid at that moment than mine? At no point does the ADA quantify the amount of time one must use their dog.

    That said, this is a loophole and those who blatantly admit a false need and use of convenience are thus invalid and illegal. However, we all have difficulties and dogs can be trained to better our lives in a variety of ways, it gets very interesting these days with the spectrum of uses becoming socially acceptable.
     
  6. ~Jessie~

    ~Jessie~ Chihuahua Power!

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    I feel lazy now, but I'm going to quote you again because it's exactly how I feel.
     
  7. Saeleofu

    Saeleofu Active Member

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    No, but the ADA DOES say that the handler must be disabled, and the dog has to be task trained to mitigate that disability. No disability = no service dog.
     
  8. Romy

    Romy Taxiderpy

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    It's not a loophole. If you're not disabled, it's not your SD.

    If your spouse has a mobility assistance dog, it is illegal for you to take that trained SD on a jaunt to the store because you're not disabled and it's not your SD.

    If you don't have a disability, you have no right to have a SD in public no matter how well or task trained it is.

    If the "fakers" do have a disability, and their dogs are just as task trained as yours, then they are SD handlers and aren't fakers. It's as simple as that.
     
  9. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    Ahhh, but it seems these days everyone has at least one disability. It's very interesting, especially on this forum.

    For an example, a gal I train with has RA, used her dog as an assistant for a plane ride, worked the dog for the ride and hasn't found the need since, faker? Debatable.
     
  10. Saeleofu

    Saeleofu Active Member

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    Disability has a legal definition. It's not just what someone decides to have one day. A diagnosis is not a disability. A disability is something that substantially limits one or more major life activities, such as breathing, walking, thinking, speaking. Most people with some sort of diagnosis are not disabled by it.

    1 in 4 Americans has a diagnosed mental illness. The vast majority of them are not disabled by it, and as such would not be eligible for a service dog.
     
  11. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    I know this and yet I still pose the argument. In this example the handler was diagnosed with said disability (not mental, by the by) and yet chooses to not use a dog most of the time. She did however decide to use her dog on a plane ride, she did prep work, and saw no issues on the trip. "Faker"?
     
  12. Saeleofu

    Saeleofu Active Member

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    If the dog was properly trained and she is disabled (not just a diagnosis, but disabled by said diagnosis), then yes, the dog is a service dog. Not everyone with a service dog uses them in public. The vast majority of hearing dogs are in-home-only service dogs. Heck, Gavroche is task-trained and could be considered an at-home-only service dog - he just doesn't have the temperament and health to be used in public. Generally at home Gavroche is on duty and Logan is off duty, and when I go out Gavroche stays home off-duty and Logan goes with me on-duty.
     
  13. Romy

    Romy Taxiderpy

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    A case like that sounds like it would have to be decided by a judge, which is what normally happens when someone is arrested for it. In that case, they'd present documentation of their disability and proof that the dog is trained to mitigate that disability. There isn't enough information about their illness, etc. to tell over the internet.

    If her doctor recommended it though, and she task trained the dog, it wouldn't bother me as it's probably within the law. Some SD handlers only have in home SDs and don't use them for public access, if they have other methods of mitigating their disability outside the home. That's where I'm at right now.
     
  14. release the hounds

    release the hounds Active Member

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    and still this would all be so much easier if a well behaved dog was allowed in public and ones that weren't, well, weren't.
     
  15. Romy

    Romy Taxiderpy

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    I concur!
     
  16. Saeleofu

    Saeleofu Active Member

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    Also, not everyone who has an SD uses it 100% of the time. Logan does not come to work with me because a service dog is not compatible with the nature of my job (zookeeper and veterinary assistant). If he does come to work with me at the clinic, he has to stay in a kennel.
     
  17. Airn

    Airn New Member

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    A bit off topic, but I'm curious. Is that because you feel it is the best choice for him? Or does your workplace pressure you into doing it?

    I find it interesting that the handlers seem to be given so much discretion. Of course, it depends on your answer. I'm assuming you CHOOSE to keep him away for the safety of you and others. And if that's the case and you don't 'have' to, that seems to be a huge responsibility to put on your (handler's) shoulders. Fortunately, you (it seems :p) are responsible and courteous when it comes to your SD and your surroundings. But what about the people who aren't?

    Are we basically assuming people who have SD's (or who don't and take their dogs out often) will make 'good' decisions? I realize most of the SD community has issues with providing documentation (I don't have much of an opinion, since it doesn't affect me) but what is a realistic alternative?


    I agree, it would be awesome if dogs were allowed everywhere, but I don't think that's realistic. And a 'well behaved dog' is a very general rule. (And that is a can of worms I wouldn't want to open.) I really don't think that is even a realistic point to this situation. It is a wants vs. needs, as has been said before. People who WANT to take their dog everywhere vs. people who NEED to take their dog with them due to a disability.
     
  18. release the hounds

    release the hounds Active Member

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    are you a doctor? :D
     
  19. Shakou

    Shakou New Member

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    I think the primary reason people don't allow dogs into their businesses is for allergy reasons. Think of how much dander one dog's coat gives off. Now imagine a bunch of dogs in a clothing store, and all that dander getting all of the clothing, into the carpets, etc. Anyone allergic to dogs wouldn't be able to shop there, all because people WANT, not NEED, to bring their dogs inside. That's not fair, and is actually pretty selfish. Yes, there's dogs everywhere outside, but outside in an open air area atleast someone with allergies can get away from a dog if it's bothering them.

    Also, how is a business owner suppose to know your dog is well behaved? I'm sure a lot of people claim their dogs are well behaved, when in fact they aren't. A business owner can't risk a strange dog someone claims is well behaved, breaking merchandise, or biting someone. It's a liability. And quite frankly, even if that wasn't the case, it's their right to not allow pets. They pay for the space, it's THEIR choice and should be respected.
     
  20. release the hounds

    release the hounds Active Member

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    the whole allergy bit doesn't fly with me. I think it's an overblown excuse. Public places are well ventilated with large volumes of air moved every minute. If you're that sensitive, I'm betting you can't make it to the store in anything other than a bubble

    my dogs will break less stuff in a lifetime than the next 10 kids I see out in public will in a weekend :)
     

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