Fake service dogs

[ruffiangirl]

Don't forget that you are not allowed to simply leave your child(ren) at home, and let me tell you as a mom, going grocery shopping without the little soul sucker would equate to heaven some days (honestly my kid is 14 and I love him more then anything, but there were days I didn't leave my house because I didn't want to subject the general public to him).

Dogs can be left at home.

 

[Dogdragoness]

Wait... What did this have to do with my post? All I said is ASK before you bring your pet into a store where you A) don't know if they are allowed or B) KNOW they aten't allowed. No where did I say that dogs are ewww yucky or anything like that. So uhhhhh yeah LOL no idea

You can claim injustice all you want but you are still aware of the rules. It is not hard to just ask HEY can i bring my pet here and if they say no... Respect it.

There are Places I am not allowed to bring hannah regardless of the fact that she is a very well mannered child. I don't just say "well screw it, they can just deal with it or make me leave". i don't bring her to places she is not allowed.

No it didn't have anything to do with you, I was just too lazy to scroll the rest of the way down to hit the plain reply ... Sorry for the confusion my lazy self her caused

I was not aware there were places kids weren't allowed (as opposed to "shouldnt be there like R movies & such) I was under the assumption that if an "adult or guardian was present.

I have no qualms about a well behaved child, if they are a barely notice them ... Same with dogs I suppose

 

[Flyinsbt]

Don't forget that you are not allowed to simply leave your child(ren) at home, and let me tell you as a mom, going grocery shopping without the little soul sucker would equate to heaven some days (honestly my kid is 14 and I love him more then anything, but there were days I didn't leave my house because I didn't want to subject the general public to him).

Dogs can be left at home.

Not if you're traveling. I'm making plans for a major road trip to a dog show, and a friend suggested that I go to Devils Tower. I looked at the website for that park, and dogs aren't allowed on the trails, and you aren't allowed to leave them in your car. I'm just not going to go, I'll find other attractions. But there are plenty of other times when a person might be on the road, and need to make a quick stop into a business where their dog is not, technically, allowed, and decide to push it.

And I'm going to say that I do see a difference between saying "easier to ask forgiveness than permission" if something is specifically disallowed, than if you don't know. If there's a clearly posted "no pets" sign, then you know your pet isn't supposed to be there so you're rule-breaking deliberately (as I did when I took Tess briefly into the cafe, as I mentioned earlier, although I don't know if there was a sign, I'm sure it was probably illegal. I already described why I chose to rule break in that case.) If there's no sign, then I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that it's okay, and that someone will tell you if it's not.

And they are absolutely allowed to ask you if it's a service dog. So there is no reason why they should just assume that it is, if it's not wearing a SD vest.

 

[ruffiangirl]

We frequently travel to Edmonton for the weekend, we have found a hotel that will allow us to leave the dogs in the room while we are out for the day. We also have lists of doggy daycares that allow drop ins, even Disneyland has one, and we know which ones allow big dogs because of Gage.

 

[Romy]

Not if you're traveling. I'm making plans for a major road trip to a dog show, and a friend suggested that I go to Devils Tower. I looked at the website for that park, and dogs aren't allowed on the trails, and you aren't allowed to leave them in your car. I'm just not going to go, I'll find other attractions. But there are plenty of other times when a person might be on the road, and need to make a quick stop into a business where their dog is not, technically, allowed, and decide to push it.

And I'm going to say that I do see a difference between saying "easier to ask forgiveness than permission" if something is specifically disallowed, than if you don't know. If there's a clearly posted "no pets" sign, then you know your pet isn't supposed to be there so you're rule-breaking deliberately (as I did when I took Tess briefly into the cafe, as I mentioned earlier, although I don't know if there was a sign, I'm sure it was probably illegal. I already described why I chose to rule break in that case.) If there's no sign, then I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that it's okay, and that someone will tell you if it's not.

And they are absolutely allowed to ask you if it's a service dog. So there is no reason why they should just assume that it is, if it's not wearing a SD vest.

Because they can be fined $55,000 for saying the wrong thing, and that's enough to put a small business out for good. That's why even Walmart won't ask people any more, because there was a huge fiasco where a Walmart manager kicked a SD team out because the SD was a pit bull. The risks vs. benefits is not worth it. That doesn't make it okay to go ahead and do anyway though.

Why is it so hard to just ask? While my state has SDiT access rights, I never took him places normal dogs were allowed until 95% of his training was completed unless I asked permission first. Most places were more than happy to give it.

And national parks do not allow dogs, period. Too many people were letting their dogs harass wildlife, leaving crap all over trails, etc. Part of the attraction is the wildlife isn't scared of roaming close by the trails.

Some national parks don't even allow service dogs in parts. Mt. Saint Helens natl park doesn't even allow service dogs on their trails, because the volcanic ash will slice the crap out of their foot pads. It doesn't state that on their signs, so what happens to someone's dog when they disregard the rules? (and it does happen every year).

If you're traveling with a dog you have to plan to visit dog friendly locations. If a campground or hotel doesn't allow pets, you look up a place that does ahead of time. If there are places you want to visit that don't allow dogs, and you can't find a dog daycare or boarding kennel nearby and it's too hot to leave them in the car, tough luck. Leave the dog at home or visit another time. Life is full of inconveniences. Just thank your lucky stars that you're able to go to the grocery store without an entourage of medical equipment every freaking time.

 

[lizzybeth727]

Just thank your lucky stars that you're able to go to the grocery store without an entourage of medical equipment every freaking time.

:hail:

 

[Flyinsbt]

Because they can be fined $55,000 for saying the wrong thing, and that's enough to put a small business out for good. That's why even Walmart won't ask people any more, because there was a huge fiasco where a Walmart manager kicked a SD team out because the SD was a pit bull. The risks vs. benefits is not worth it. That doesn't make it okay to go ahead and do anyway though.

Why is it so hard to just ask? While my state has SDiT access rights, I never took him places normal dogs were allowed until 95% of his training was completed unless I asked permission first. Most places were more than happy to give it.

And national parks do not allow dogs, period. Too many people were letting their dogs harass wildlife, leaving crap all over trails, etc. Part of the attraction is the wildlife isn't scared of roaming close by the trails.

Some national parks don't even allow service dogs in parts. Mt. Saint Helens natl park doesn't even allow service dogs on their trails, because the volcanic ash will slice the crap out of their foot pads. It doesn't state that on their signs, so what happens to someone's dog when they disregard the rules? (and it does happen every year).

If you're traveling with a dog you have to plan to visit dog friendly locations. If a campground or hotel doesn't allow pets, you look up a place that does ahead of time. If there are places you want to visit that don't allow dogs, and you can't find a dog daycare or boarding kennel nearby and it's too hot to leave them in the car, tough luck. Leave the dog at home or visit another time. Life is full of inconveniences. Just thank your lucky stars that you're able to go to the grocery store without an entourage of medical equipment every freaking time.

When did national parks stop allowing dogs? I was with my dogs at the Grand Canyon in 2006, they were allowed. Weren't allowed down into the canyons, but on the trails along the rim, on leash. Which is all I wanted. And actually, I looked up Yellowstone at the same time as Devils Tower, because I was thinking of dropping by there, and they don't allow dogs on the boardwalks (reasonable) or the backcountry trails, but there's a few other places where they can be, and they can be in your car. So no, think you're mistaken. They're all different.
ETA: yep, still allowed on the rim:
http://www.nps.gov/grca/planyourvisit/pets.htm

And I'm still saying that if a business doesn't want dogs in it, it can post a sign. If there's no sign, I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that they don't object to my dog. What am I supposed to do with the dog while I go look for someone to ask?

 

[Red Chrome]

My local wal mart asks every time we go in.

 

[JessLough]

Wait, are "no pets allowed" (or "dogs, please leave your humans inside") signs not the norm there for places that don't allow pets?

 

[Romy]

When did national parks stop allowing dogs? I was with my dogs at the Grand Canyon in 2006, they were allowed. Weren't allowed down into the canyons, but on the trails along the rim, on leash. Which is all I wanted. And actually, I looked up Yellowstone at the same time as Devils Tower, because I was thinking of dropping by there, and they don't allow dogs on the boardwalks (reasonable) or the backcountry trails, but there's a few other places where they can be, and they can be in your car. So no, think you're mistaken. They're all different.

And I'm still saying that if a business doesn't want dogs in it, it can post a sign. If there's no sign, I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that they don't object to my dog. What am I supposed to do with the dog while I go look for someone to ask?

Depending on the culture of the place you're in, you can assume that if there's no sign it's okay. Most of the United States isn't like that (unfortunately) and the assumption is that dogs are not allowed unless there's a posted welcome sign. The vast majority of businesses I've been to have had nothing, and the big box pet stores all have 'leashed/vaccinated pets welcome' signs. I don't know what the culture is like where you live.

Maybe it's mostly parks on the west coast then, because most here are extremely restricted. And leaving the dog in your car is an option, unless the weather is hot. I wasn't counting that as taking your dog to the park though, since they can't actually get out of the car and do anything.

eta: When training Strider, if I poked my head in the door to ask for permission and nobody was there I went on my way and looked for a different business. Same as if they told me no. It's inconvenient, but so is doing errands with a dog in tow.

 

[Greenmagick]

Wait, are "no pets allowed" (or "dogs, please leave your humans inside") signs not the norm there for places that don't allow pets?

Here they are common.

 

[Flyinsbt]

Depending on the culture of the place you're in, you can assume that if there's no sign it's okay. Most of the United States isn't like that (unfortunately) and the assumption is that dogs are not allowed unless there's a posted welcome sign. The vast majority of businesses I've been to have had nothing, and the big box pet stores all have 'leashed/vaccinated pets welcome' signs. I don't know what the culture is like where you live.

Maybe it's mostly parks on the west coast then, because most here are extremely restricted. And leaving the dog in your car is an option, unless the weather is hot. I wasn't counting that as taking your dog to the park though, since they can't actually get out of the car and do anything.

Leaving the dog in the car at Devils Tower was not an option, which I thought was a little unreasonable, because I believe it's open year round. I think temperature restrictions make more sense. Doesn't matter, I just won't go there. They do mention boarding in nearby towns, but that's not an option for me, it's unnecessary exposure risk when we're already on the way to a dog show, and I don't give as many vaccines as boarding places want.

Parks are all different, they have differing regulations. You have to check before you go.

I do not assume, though, at businesses, that if there's no sign, that means no dogs. I'm used to businesses having posted signs if dogs aren't allowed. Dogs aren't allowed where food is served (except outdoor patios) due to state law, so I wouldn't bother even checking for a sign there, but any other business, it would be business owner's discretion. If they don't want a dog in there, they can put up a sign like everyone else.

 

[Saeleofu]

My local wal mart asks every time we go in.

Corporate policy is that you can be asked by the greeter (though greeters are seemingly being removed from the entrances lately) once when you go in (each time you go in) but you cannot be asked once you're in the store. I've never been asked at Walmart. Only place I can remember being asked is the laundromat.

 

[Romy]

Leaving the dog in the car at Devils Tower was not an option, which I thought was a little unreasonable, because I believe it's open year round. I think temperature restrictions make more sense. Doesn't matter, I just won't go there. They do mention boarding in nearby towns, but that's not an option for me, it's unnecessary exposure risk when we're already on the way to a dog show, and I don't give as many vaccines as boarding places want.

Parks are all different, they have differing regulations. You have to check before you go.

I do not assume, though, at businesses, that if there's no sign, that means no dogs. I'm used to businesses having posted signs if dogs aren't allowed. Dogs aren't allowed where food is served (except outdoor patios) due to state law, so I wouldn't bother even checking for a sign there, but any other business, it would be business owner's discretion. If they don't want a dog in there, they can put up a sign like everyone else.

That's all just the inconvenience of traveling with a dog though. You can't go some places. If your hotel room doesn't allow dogs unsupervised in the room or poolside, you can't swim in their pool. The same thing applies to everyone.

You have the option of boarding or whatever. If you choose not to because of disease concerns or you choose not to follow that businesses vaccination protocol, again, that's your personal choice you make when you choose to travel with your dog.

Be glad you have a choice.

Corporate policy is that you can be asked by the greeter (though greeters are seemingly being removed from the entrances lately) once when you go in (each time you go in) but you cannot be asked once you're in the store. I've never been asked at Walmart. Only place I can remember being asked is the laundromat.

Our local walmart never asks anybody, and I see lots more dogs in the store there than anywhere else because it's common knowledge that they won't ask you to leave if you bring a pet in. People have told me that they bring their dogs to walmart because "they can't kick you out!".

 

[sassafras]

Wait, are "no pets allowed" (or "dogs, please leave your humans inside") signs not the norm there for places that don't allow pets?

In much of the US, the default is generally that dogs are not allowed. Personally I would assume that a dog was not allowed somewhere unless otherwise specified. NOT HARD.

I mean, really? Are we - grown adults - really having a conversation about whether we should just do what we want just because we want to and we don't think it's fair that we can't? And because most of the time we get away with it because most business owners and other customers are too polite or too unsure about what they can ask to say anything? FFS.

 

[Flyinsbt]

Honestly, we've now gone from arguing about people faking SD's to arguing about whether people should have to specifically ask before taking a dog into a business that doesn't have a "no dogs" sign. This is getting ridiculous. That has nothing to do with the SD issue.

And the park thing is even more irrelevant, I'm sorry I mentioned it, it was a poor example of what I was trying to say. And that I continued to try to get explanatory, because I thought we were off the arguing thing and were on an irrelevant chat about dog regulations at national parks. Just scratch the whole thing.

 

[AdrianneIsabel]

Culturally, here, you're incorrect about assuming without a sign dogs are not allowed.

Seeing a golden pup at a smiths grocery store startled me but no one seemed the least surprised around me. It was calm, quiet, unassuming, and thus seemingly allowed.

I walked into lowes last night with Sloan, right past the corporate "no dogs allowed" sign. The trespassing(which actually isn't a crime at all until you stay against their request) that was suggested in this thread, not the "ask first" but the "use lowes & HD to train in public", is slightly humorous due to their policy about dogs.

"While it is definitely true that you can often take your small dog or even larger leashed dogs into these stores, it is not the official chain policy. Individual managers may allow it at one store or another, but these policies are changed often. "

 

[sassafras]

Culturally, here, you're incorrect about assuming without a sign dogs are not allowed.

LOL a choice to personally err on the side of assuming they're not allowed is neither correct nor incorrect. It's just a choice based on my experiences in areas I've lived and traveled in.

Probably the best thing for everyone to do is just stop assuming either way and just ask.

 

[Shakou]

I never make the assumption that it's okay to take my dog into any business that doesn't have a sign stating one way or the other that pets are allowed, and I'm kind of appalled that people do this and think they're completely within their rights. We've had our dogs invited into places before by the business owners, and that's cool, but to just do it, even if you know they probably aren't allowed? Come on people, grow up!

 

[Flyinsbt]

I never make the assumption that it's okay to take my dog into any business that doesn't have a sign stating one way or the other that pets are allowed, and I'm kind of appalled that people do this and think they're completely within their rights. We've had our dogs invited into places before by the business owners, and that's cool, but to just do it, even if you know they probably aren't allowed? Come on people, grow up!

The businesses that I would take my dog into, I would assume my dog is allowed. Except in the case I earlier stated, when I was pretty sure she wasn't, but just wanted to get her some water quickly because I was concerned for her health. Sorry, my dog's health vs. petty rule... my dog wins. I was more than happy to go back out to the patio once that was addressed. The young woman that served me didn't seem too distressed, she actually complimented my dog's behavior. (undeserved, but hey, we took it).

My assumption, as I've said, is that given that most businesses have "no dogs" signs displayed, if a business chooses not to do so, they must not have an issue with dogs.

The closest HD to me has a "no dogs" sign, so I wouldn't take mine in there, but lately I'm resolved to do my hardware shopping at the new Ace store in the neighborhood anyway. I won't take my dogs in there either, as they have a store dog which is loose, so whether they've posted it "no dogs" or not (I didn't look), I feel it would be too crowded with my dogs in there too.