Fake service dogs

Discussion in 'Dogs - General Dog Chat' started by Shakou, Feb 20, 2013.

  1. Flyinsbt

    Flyinsbt New Member

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    I wonder if people would be willing to actually do something like that? It seems like you could have a simple certification from a medical professional that you have a disability, as defined in the ADA. Rather like the handicapped parking pass... I know you can't just say, "I'm handicapped!", you have to have proof of it. So just provide proof like that to the state, and get a license of your disability. I don't think it would need to be any further regulated, too complicated. Just, if you have that license, you have a right to a SD.
     
  2. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    Makes sense.
     
  3. Saeleofu

    Saeleofu Active Member

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    My dog DOES to go to classes with me, just not when I have classes behind the scenes at the zoo, because that is not appropriate. Not inconvenient, inappropriate. The same goes for work. It is not appropriate to take a dog behind the scenes at the zoo. Period. It's not because of convenience, it's because it is perfectly legal for them to tell me I can't have my dog there, and as a handler I know a dog doesn't belong there anyway. Dogs aren't allowed in surgical suites, clean rooms, etc either. Doesn't mean a handler who ends up in one of those places doesn't need the dog elsewhere.

    As for this thread, :wall: :wall: :wall: I had thought better of chazzers until this point. Now I'm saddened by the display of disrespect of other people and of the laws.
     
  4. Saeleofu

    Saeleofu Active Member

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    As far as certification goes, I don't think it's a terrible idea if it's done right. I think it's definitely coming, because of fakers who feel they're entitled to bring their pet with them everywhere. Requiring documentation for flying PSDs is just the first step.
     
  5. MinPinOwner

    MinPinOwner Member

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    I believe it's illegal under the ADA for anyone to ask about certifications and many other things about a service dog. This makes it easy for people that want to have fake service dogs.
     
  6. Red Chrome

    Red Chrome New Member

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    How exactly do you spot a faker? Honestly, I believe that a few of you would call me a faker if you saw me in public. My dog is needed and prescribed by a doctor. Not all the time but I do need him a lot. Especially, after the incident I went through Saturday. He is a PSD. He is also absolutely behaved in public.




    This This This.






    This this this. ^^^
     
  7. Red Chrome

    Red Chrome New Member

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    I would totally do this.
     
  8. CatStina

    CatStina SBT Lover!!

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    And I direct you to this:


    For everyone's information, Saxon is in training to be my PSD.
     
  9. Romy

    Romy Taxiderpy

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    Why do you write "faking" in quotes when you presented a scenario as someone who faked it for convenience sake, not because they needed the dog's assistance or that the dog was trained to assist them? Because if she actually did need assistance, and it really was trained to assist her, it wouldn't be a problem.

    Of course people who are sick of other people's selfishness affecting their ability to go out and do normal things that normal healthy people get to do unassisted any time they feel like are upset about it.

    Do I think your friend is a selfish and childish person? Probably not. I don't know her, but she's probably a perfectly nice person. Was that a thoughtless thing to do? I think so.


    As far as certification goes, I'd totally be comfortable with a doctor determining what degree of disability their patient experiences and signing something authorizing use of certain medical tools in public (like a white cane or assistance dog).

    And I'm totally judging the flexi lead chihuahua guy texting in the middle of the store entrance. I had to consciously restrain myself from kicking his dog when it bit me. Mainly I didn't want to accidentally kill it or break its leg when it was the stupid owner's fault for putting it in the situation to begin with.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2013
  10. Saeleofu

    Saeleofu Active Member

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    Exactly. Especially in bold.

    As for your friend, I agree - it's not that I think she's selfish and childish as a person, but it WAS a very selfish and childish choice she made. A perfectly rational person can still make bad decisions.
     
  11. Shakou

    Shakou New Member

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    Ironically, I ran into a guy with a fake service dog today while at Barnes And Noble. The owner never admitted to it, but lol, you could totally tell. The dog was really sweet and the guy was nice too, so I didn't say anything. I'm assuming he got caught when he left the dog tied to a table in the food court by herself, while he went to go flirt with girls on the other side of the store though. Not sure, as I left before seeing the outcome.
     
  12. Romy

    Romy Taxiderpy

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    T.T

    obligatory additional text

    ETA: and what an idiot! Everybody knows that dogs are the perfect accessory for picking up girls. Come on!
     
  13. Xandra

    Xandra Active Member

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    pretty sure you're supposed to bring the dog when you go to flirt with girls.
     
  14. Flyinsbt

    Flyinsbt New Member

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    I wasn't referring to the case in that scenario I mentioned. Shockingly, I do know more than one person. I was referring to an entirely different case, in which I have no direct knowledge if the dog was a service dog or not. Well, strike that. I know the dog isn't a service dog. What the owner did was fly the dog on a plane, and for all I know, she went through all the right steps to get the dog declared an ESD. I saw her being lambasted for "faking" a SD, I put that word in quotes because I do not personally know the truth of the matter. Nor do I care that much, it's not my business, but I don't like to see people hammered on that way. As I pointed out, I don't like bullying.

    My rebel point of view, again, is that I don't think that fake service dogs, if they are well behaved, do adversely affect access issues for the disabled. I didn't change my opinion on this because I decided it was okay to inconvenience the disabled, it's because I was pushed to question whether they were actually harmed by a well-behaved fake, and realized that there really wasn't a way for that to be true.

    Mostly, I just would like to see people show a little more sensitivity towards other's points of view. It seems fairly easy for people to assume that because someone doesn't meet the definition of disabled, they have no cares at all, and only want to have their dog with them because they are selfish and spoiled. And you don't know what that person is going through, or why they are determined to be with their dog.

    The first time I flew somewhere with Tess, I made the plane reservations and went along for a couple months, resolutely not thinking about what I was going to do. Shortly before the flight, making travel preparations, while still trying not to think about the fact that my dog was going to be luggage, I had a panic attack. At least I assume that's what it was, it's the only one I've had. And I was driving at the time. Not good. I still managed to get through preparations, get my dog checked in, get in my seat myself, with the intention of napping... and realized that I couldn't possibly sleep when this metal box might crash out of the sky any time and my dog would die alone! It was a very tense 4 hours.

    The flight back was similar, and after landing and collecting my dog, instead of putting her in her crate in the back of my truck, she rode shotgun, because I had to see her. And touch her.

    I've often commented that I get separation anxiety pretty bad, but I didn't know how bad it really was until that flight. And crazily, I flew her again a couple months ago. Which actually wasn't quite as bad, maybe because our previous flight had gone well. Until we landed back at home, and I realized that the zip ties they'd put on her crate in the airport, before I could get mine on, were not hand releasable like mine and I had no way to get them off and my dog was going to be stuck in her crate forever! Fortunately, another agility friend who was on the same flight had a set of scissors in her checked bag, and she handed it to me before I could wind myself up any further.

    Anyway, just an example of how even a non-disabled person can be in a state where they just really need their dog. Why judge? Maybe the dog is the only thing keeping that person off the ledge right at that moment, you don't know. Which of course still doesn't give anyone the right to bring their dog into a store and have it pee on stuff, but not even a legitimately disabled person has that right.
     
  15. Danefied

    Danefied New Member

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    Hrm... Interesting thread...

    Selfishly, I don't really care one way or another. I don't have a SD, my rights are not at stake, it's easy for me to see all sides as a somewhat neutral outsider.

    Last weekend, we were at the Greenville cluster dog show - huge dog show, one of the biggest in the southeast. Was hanging out waiting for our turn in the ring, and my friend nudged me and said "I don't think that's really a service dog do you?" I look over an there is this sweet, golden, probably 8 months, still very puppy-like, wearing a very visible, very clearly labeled service dog vest, in a prong, playfully leaping all over an older golden, held by the same person who was frankly struggling to keep the dogs from getting in to an all out play session.

    Now, this was at a dog show. Dogs are allowed at dogs shows and leaping puppyish dogs are certainly nothing anyone would bat an eye at.
    However, prongs are not allowed at AKC dog shows, and non-entered dogs are not allowed at this show. In fact every single entrance was plastered with signs that read "no strollers, non-entered dogs not allowed".

    I looked over, chuckled, said to my friend "nope, don't think so". Honestly, my first thought was it's probably a SD in training. I mean, what a great place to bring a SDiT really. It's a huge, loud, crowded show, dogs everywhere, really a good place to train. I did look closer at the vest to see if it said SDiT, but nope, it was SD all over it. Oh well, I figured it was big brother's vest the pup was wearing to get used to it.
    And that was the end of it. Typical of me (and her) we were quickly distracted by something else and the conversation turned on to other things.

    Until this thread, I hadn't thought about that incident. It was what, less than a minute out of my life? Didn't affect me in the least.
    But was it uncool? Yeah, I think so. Not because I think the person was faking, because I honestly don't know if they were or not, nor do I care really. But there was definite, blatant disregard for rules. The obvious one "no prong collars", and the possible non-entered dog one. Call me a stick in the mud, but people who walk around blatantly disregarding rules as if rules apply to everyone else but them kind of irk me. Whether it's faking a service dog or passing in the breakdown lane during a traffic jam. It's just uncool in my book. The rest of us are following the rules, what makes you so special that they don't apply to you?
     
  16. Saeleofu

    Saeleofu Active Member

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    Really? REALLY?! And here you are being as insensitive as it gets to every single ****ing service dog handler by insisting faking is okay. Wow. Just WOW. :wall:
     
  17. RD

    RD Are you dead yet?

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    It's not cool. Frankly I don't pay enough attention or give enough shits about what other people do to ever want to call someone on it, but people taking untrained dogs into public places and labeling them service dogs gives the general public the impression that service dogs can be poorly behaved ad act just like the pets they have at home.

    My dog is my service dog. She doesn't come with me to work, as i feel my work environment isnt safe for her. Does that make me a faker, since I can function for 8 hours a day without her? Does it invalidate her as a service dog? Does it even bloody matter, since she is well behaved and unassuming in public when she is working?
     
  18. release the hounds

    release the hounds Active Member

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    That's about how I feel. I see this as needing to go in one of two ways. Either strict regulations are put in place, people need to go thru an accredited agency, costs will be incured, a standard must be presented, that standard must be upheld, annual re-certifications must be done to maintain said "license" and people must present it when asked for in any establishment. Those that don't comply should be fined, and heavily.

    or we just accept that well behaved dogs that sometimes aren't service dogs are going to be out in public with people that aren't really disabled and ill mannered dogs should be sent home regardless of their status of service or non-service dog.

    I prefer the latter, much easier and creates much less problems for all involved. I don't take my dogs shopping because I don't want to shop with them, but I wouldn't mind going to a mall on a hot summer day while my wife goes to all her Express, and limited banana republic and Macy's and all that jazz to shop, and I could just take a stroll with my dogs sometimes.

    I really don't feel like taking them in to many places, it's the outdoor stuff that really pisses me off. Why can't I go to the park? I pay for them the same as everyone else. We have hundreds of acres of soccer fields here and nobody can use them except the ****ing kids playing soccer. It's ridiculous. I guess that doesn't stop me though. I go there and track and do obedience regardless they can come kick me off.
     
  19. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    I genuinely do not believe that is what she is trying to offer, I think it's more of a lets take this case by case and look at what is creating an issue.

    My deepest concerns with the witch hunt on "fakers", I use quotes because I do not agree with many on what is a faker, is I have seen too many well behaved SD with well and unsteadied bodied handlers and I have seen too many ill trained SD with well bodied and unsteadied handlers. The problem with this that makes me most nervous is the training level, be it my clients in Vegas, which we did ask for doctors notes to cover our legal, or the flexi chihuahua guy.

    The training level is building into that ever creeping idea, in many discussions, of evaluating not just the dog but the handlers need. Many question if aspergers is a "catch all" as attention deficit was shortly after my childhood, basically does everyone diagnosed have it and have a reason for a dog or did a few doctors go a bit wild with their diagnosis? Many additionally find services such as guiding to the car or an exit to be confusingly vague as a task, in short many find PSD to be a confusing thing.

    As I said before, a large population of people have debilitating conditions, a large percent of that I would wager are dog owners. Of this percent many choose to not use dogs for assisting and easing their states, additionally what i see, in my line of work and social networking, is an increasing number of questions about the validity of PSD for others. Basically the, why are their issues more valid than my panic attacks, depression, anxiety, migraines, RA, diabetes, and so forth. The answer is they are not and should you feel your dog would benefit your outing to the grocery or barns & noble (those still exist?) or the airplane by all means take advantage but first talk to your doctor, you may have additional steps, and please-please-please train accordingly, ill trained dogs ruin it for everyone.

    As long as that dog is behaving as it should it is of no business to anyone but the owner, their doctor, and the law enforcement (who will not interfere without just cause).

    This, again, does not apply to out spoken, "I don't need my dog but I want it."
     
  20. ~Jessie~

    ~Jessie~ Chihuahua Power!

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    Exactly.

    I just don't see the point of needing to call out "fakers." If the dog is well behaved, why can't we just assume it's a service dog and mind our own business?
     

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