Expecting another litter...
- Thread starter vomdominus
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The bitch is in the AKC database - the name is DuTchess Anastasia, not Duchess. The AKC does indeed, list her birthdate as january 9th, 2007 - which makes her not even 2 years old yet.
Ty, however, is not in the AKC database - not under that number, and not under any name they list, not that I can find.
Whether or not someone agrees with Red's decisions to breed, that is a different story - she never hid her breeding decision, never lied - her dogs were titled honestly, are listed honestly, and her choices were made public. Some may have issues with her, and some may disagree with her choice, and I may not agree with it either, but I respect the fact that she tested and titled at least.
However, breeding a dog twice before it's a year old, and untitled - that I can't respect, no matter what.
Ty, however, is not in the AKC database - not under that number, and not under any name they list, not that I can find.
Whether or not someone agrees with Red's decisions to breed, that is a different story - she never hid her breeding decision, never lied - her dogs were titled honestly, are listed honestly, and her choices were made public. Some may have issues with her, and some may disagree with her choice, and I may not agree with it either, but I respect the fact that she tested and titled at least.
However, breeding a dog twice before it's a year old, and untitled - that I can't respect, no matter what.
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NOW, I'm confused. Annies first litter was born February 2, 2008 correct?? And it states (on the PDB)Artemis and Athena (A litter pups, almost 8 months) both have BH's, which isnt even possible since the dog must be ATLEAST 15 months to trial for a BH, not to mention the BH is a temperament test not a real title, but its not a piece of cake, and takes work getting to that stage.
He did check in at 7:58 pm central time, if you go to his public profile and look at the little blue and tan box in the top left corner under his name you can see when his last activity was, it isn't a trick of the mods it's open to everyone 
As to the "wrong" he admitted, well, that was a lie too. He "admitted" to breeding her at age 2 and then 8 months later with her next heat.
In reality, he bred her at age ONE and then again 8 months later with her next heat.........
Linky where he "admitted wrong" http://www.chazhound.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1195632&postcount=14
I agree with doberkim. Red never hid, lied, or avoided tough questions. You don't have to agree with her breeding but respect the fact that she was honest about it.
Vom has apparently (and I say apparently because *maybe* there is a perfectly logical reason for all these discrepancies) bred a bitch that was too young, bred dogs without health testing, untitled, and then LIED about it.
If you are proud of your breeding practices then there is no reason to be ashamed and lie. There are no LAWS against being a BYB, and if you choose to do so then stand up and say so..........don't hide behind imaginary titles, ages, or OFA ratings.
I can respect a BYB who is honest more than a person who is ashamed enough to lie to us.
As to the "wrong" he admitted, well, that was a lie too. He "admitted" to breeding her at age 2 and then 8 months later with her next heat.
In reality, he bred her at age ONE and then again 8 months later with her next heat.........
Linky where he "admitted wrong" http://www.chazhound.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1195632&postcount=14
I agree with doberkim. Red never hid, lied, or avoided tough questions. You don't have to agree with her breeding but respect the fact that she was honest about it.
Vom has apparently (and I say apparently because *maybe* there is a perfectly logical reason for all these discrepancies) bred a bitch that was too young, bred dogs without health testing, untitled, and then LIED about it.
If you are proud of your breeding practices then there is no reason to be ashamed and lie. There are no LAWS against being a BYB, and if you choose to do so then stand up and say so..........don't hide behind imaginary titles, ages, or OFA ratings.
I can respect a BYB who is honest more than a person who is ashamed enough to lie to us.
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It's the same dog. I was paranoid as hell when that picture won the photo contest all those years ago, and I used an alias.
His name is Dominus Tiberius. He's not in the AKC database because I had no interest in registering him until I got somewhere that had no grassroots schutzhund clubs, so I finally sent off his puppy pack so I could compete.
As for his schh titles, he was "titled" at a grassroots level event with people who did it for fun. I wasn't sure if the title counted or not, so I asked the pedigreedatabase people if they thought it counted, those folks said they did. I kept saying regionals because I didn't know what the word I was looking for was: trials. I never claimed he was UScA certified, just that I had a piece of paper. I was just getting ready to go to my first real trial. link (only one actual reply, but I had a couple PM's too)
As for the whole deal with Annie, yeah, she's a year younger than I said she was. I know I made a mistake. I've heard it all a thousand times, and I simply didn't want to hear it again.
The "puppy I couldn't place". Eight of the nine pups from the first litter had been spoken for by seven weeks old. We intended to keep number nine as our pet. Later, when she was five months old, I came down on orders and found out I couldn't taker her with me, so I had to rehome her. I'm still in contact with her owner too.
Ty's OFAs- He's had his prelims done. When they came back, my vet commented on how he had "excellent hips!". Ok, I'll admit, I was just tooting my own horn on that one. Perhaps I'm a bit overconfident, but we'll see.
When I checked in tonight, I was on my way out the doorto go to work. This was a bigger can of worms than I could have handled quickly, so I decided to wait until I got home.
Online dog people are so crucial. I've learned from my mistakes, but that doesn't mean they didn't happen. I was hoping to have them stay behind me here, but your past has a way of finding you, especially when you've ****ed up as bad as me. Basically I was (well, am I guess) a BYB, but I'm trying to become better than one. God, how cliche does that sound!
I'm not going to stop doing dogs, I'm not going to stop learning. I'm going to continue to improve what I do, but I think I'm going to stop going to online dog sites, I just can't get ahead of my past.
His name is Dominus Tiberius. He's not in the AKC database because I had no interest in registering him until I got somewhere that had no grassroots schutzhund clubs, so I finally sent off his puppy pack so I could compete.
As for his schh titles, he was "titled" at a grassroots level event with people who did it for fun. I wasn't sure if the title counted or not, so I asked the pedigreedatabase people if they thought it counted, those folks said they did. I kept saying regionals because I didn't know what the word I was looking for was: trials. I never claimed he was UScA certified, just that I had a piece of paper. I was just getting ready to go to my first real trial. link (only one actual reply, but I had a couple PM's too)
As for the whole deal with Annie, yeah, she's a year younger than I said she was. I know I made a mistake. I've heard it all a thousand times, and I simply didn't want to hear it again.
The "puppy I couldn't place". Eight of the nine pups from the first litter had been spoken for by seven weeks old. We intended to keep number nine as our pet. Later, when she was five months old, I came down on orders and found out I couldn't taker her with me, so I had to rehome her. I'm still in contact with her owner too.
Ty's OFAs- He's had his prelims done. When they came back, my vet commented on how he had "excellent hips!". Ok, I'll admit, I was just tooting my own horn on that one. Perhaps I'm a bit overconfident, but we'll see.
When I checked in tonight, I was on my way out the doorto go to work. This was a bigger can of worms than I could have handled quickly, so I decided to wait until I got home.
Online dog people are so crucial. I've learned from my mistakes, but that doesn't mean they didn't happen. I was hoping to have them stay behind me here, but your past has a way of finding you, especially when you've ****ed up as bad as me. Basically I was (well, am I guess) a BYB, but I'm trying to become better than one. God, how cliche does that sound!
I'm not going to stop doing dogs, I'm not going to stop learning. I'm going to continue to improve what I do, but I think I'm going to stop going to online dog sites, I just can't get ahead of my past.
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I don't think you should stop coming to online dog forums. I know people get in over their head and the truth only keeps hurting, but you learn from your mistakes and other peoples input.
I certainly don't think any less of you. I enjoy your point of view on dogs, and I know other people do too.
Yes, I think you should have told the truth from the beginning, but whats done is done, and you've at least been man enough to admit you were wrong.
I certainly don't think any less of you. I enjoy your point of view on dogs, and I know other people do too.
Yes, I think you should have told the truth from the beginning, but whats done is done, and you've at least been man enough to admit you were wrong.
VomDom, bummer. Dog sites/forums in general, all have their vipers...and this place is no exception.
No one here is perfect aside from perhaps Jess...but I do think that when you are on a dog forum it's best to be a bit circumspect. Axes to grind tend to get passed around.
Sometimes less is more...
You have made some errors...I am not the one to judge you for it...tho I sure might disagree.
Being in dogs can be rough...just remember...you don't know any of us, and ask yourself if you want an audience of potentially thousands of strangers, to hear what you put here. Esp seeing as how at least some of those thousands are pretty much always going to be statistically, of the judgemental ilk.
Good luck to you.
No one here is perfect aside from perhaps Jess...but I do think that when you are on a dog forum it's best to be a bit circumspect. Axes to grind tend to get passed around.
Sometimes less is more...
You have made some errors...I am not the one to judge you for it...tho I sure might disagree.
Being in dogs can be rough...just remember...you don't know any of us, and ask yourself if you want an audience of potentially thousands of strangers, to hear what you put here. Esp seeing as how at least some of those thousands are pretty much always going to be statistically, of the judgemental ilk.
Good luck to you.
R
I think you should stop lying.
Take the lies off your website about the puppies being AKC registered.
Take the lies off the pedigree data base about your dog's OFA status and titles.
Take the lies off the pedigree data base about the titles on the puppies that were born in January.
Stop breeding your unregistered un-health tested dog.
If you want to claim he has titles and an OFA rating, then HONOR YOUR DOG by getting them legitimately. You can contact people off the USA site to find somewhere near you to train, and where to go to earn ACTUAL titles.
http://germanshepherddog.com/clubs/mid_central.htm
Oklahoma Working Dog Association
Susanne Shelton
22010 West Coyote Trail
Sand Springs, OK 74063
Green Country German Shepherd Dog Club
Narda G Hilton
34365 W. 261st Street South
Bristow, OK 74010
918-798-7839
I don't have any real issue with your "mistakes", altho I have to say breeding a puppy twice before the age of 20 mos to an unregistered dog is pretty far out there.
It is the huge tangle of big fat LIES that I have issue with.
Take the lies off your website about the puppies being AKC registered.
Take the lies off the pedigree data base about your dog's OFA status and titles.
Take the lies off the pedigree data base about the titles on the puppies that were born in January.
Stop breeding your unregistered un-health tested dog.
If you want to claim he has titles and an OFA rating, then HONOR YOUR DOG by getting them legitimately. You can contact people off the USA site to find somewhere near you to train, and where to go to earn ACTUAL titles.
http://germanshepherddog.com/clubs/mid_central.htm
Oklahoma Working Dog Association
Susanne Shelton
22010 West Coyote Trail
Sand Springs, OK 74063
Green Country German Shepherd Dog Club
Narda G Hilton
34365 W. 261st Street South
Bristow, OK 74010
918-798-7839
I don't have any real issue with your "mistakes", altho I have to say breeding a puppy twice before the age of 20 mos to an unregistered dog is pretty far out there.
It is the huge tangle of big fat LIES that I have issue with.
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I got rid of Ty's titles. I genuinely believed they were legit, but I'll take 'em down for the sake of starting over.
For simplicities' sake, I just deleted the pups. Accidental litters don't need to be there anyway. The only pup I may put in there is the boy Bossman, whom we are probably going to keep, now that I'm at a station in life where I can.
Yeah, Annie's got that **** "T" in her name. My wife insists on it... so it wasn't an accident. "It's my dog, I'll spell it how I want." lol
The info about the pups coming with akc registrations on the website isn't changing... they will have it as soon as I get my registration slip back for Ty.
For simplicities' sake, I just deleted the pups. Accidental litters don't need to be there anyway. The only pup I may put in there is the boy Bossman, whom we are probably going to keep, now that I'm at a station in life where I can.
Yeah, Annie's got that **** "T" in her name. My wife insists on it... so it wasn't an accident. "It's my dog, I'll spell it how I want." lol
The info about the pups coming with akc registrations on the website isn't changing... they will have it as soon as I get my registration slip back for Ty.
S
Ok, she admitted her mistakes and it looks like she is working on cleaning up the mess. What more can you ask for? I applaud her for coming clean and doing what she can to fix things. Most BYBs would never do that. I am glad I waited until Vom came back to explain things before going on the attack. I dont think you should leave dog forums either. I enjoy having you here and looking at all of the pictures you post... and updates. I am SURE she has been attacked about breeding her young dog time and time again, so I dont see the point in repeating whats already been said.
With the Red thing, I think that could be dropped completely. I think J Crews point was that she becomes miss pissy when her breedings are questioned in any way shape or form. She is a reputable breeder and I think thats obvious, but her breeding ethics is not the point here. I've witnessed her pi$$ attutude myself when I asked her a simple question before. She seems to have no problem interrogating other breeders, so she should expect the same from people who are curious about HER breeding's. THATS the point. My opinion as ALWAYS.
With the Red thing, I think that could be dropped completely. I think J Crews point was that she becomes miss pissy when her breedings are questioned in any way shape or form. She is a reputable breeder and I think thats obvious, but her breeding ethics is not the point here. I've witnessed her pi$$ attutude myself when I asked her a simple question before. She seems to have no problem interrogating other breeders, so she should expect the same from people who are curious about HER breeding's. THATS the point
. My opinion as ALWAYS.
R
Admitting that you have done grievous wrong and probable harm to your breed is a first step. However, this is more than "mistakes". A mistake is a typo. Breeding 2 litters from a bitch before 20 months is quite a bit more than a mistake.
But the lying all over the place is the big issue with me. This person has lied to us, to everyone on the net. He has posted multiple lies on this bulletin board, his website, and in the pedigree data base.
He has lied about titles, health testing, registration status, and ages of his dogs.
Owning up is good. It does not erase the "mistakes".
But the lying all over the place is the big issue with me. This person has lied to us, to everyone on the net. He has posted multiple lies on this bulletin board, his website, and in the pedigree data base.
He has lied about titles, health testing, registration status, and ages of his dogs.
Owning up is good. It does not erase the "mistakes".
