Ethical Question

Discussion in 'The Breeding Ground' started by Laurelin, Oct 4, 2012.

  1. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    Ok so I am casually looking at breeds and breeders for Nextdog. Will be really looking probably 2014ish but am kind of scoping out a few avenues.

    One breeder was recommended to me in a certain breed. I did some looking and it looked good. Did some more digging and found something on a page that made me pause. I can't decide what my ethical stance is on it. It's a litter from a solid colored dam to a popular double merle sire (not bred by this breeder). I already know where I stand on merle x merle breeding but I am not sure about this. I know there is no risk for the litter being that the dam is solid colored. But I really don't know that I could support a breeder that is in a way supporting merle x merle crosses. Even if their breeding isn't a danger, they're clearly okay with other people breeding merle x merle. Then I think I am being silly because there is no real reason for me to not like breeding to a double merle that I can think of. He's not going to pass on his double merle-ness to his pups. But then again....

    It was also several years ago that the breeding was done. And they don't seem to breed for color as their other litters are the full range of colors in the breed. It's just enough to make me pause. Thoughts? I'm thinking at the moment that it might just be a sign that it's not the breeder for me.
     
  2. CharlieDog

    CharlieDog Rude and Not Ginger

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    If it gives you pause dont do it.
     
  3. stardogs

    stardogs Behavior Nerd

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    I know you said they don't appear to breed for color, but that breeding does really scream that color *is* a high priority. Perhaps ask the breeder about the reasoning behind that cross? His/Her opinions may have changed since the breeding was done as well.
     
  4. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    Yeah that was one thing I thought of. Since it was years ago maybe their opinion has changed. He's a very commonly used stud.

    It seems like many breeders in the couple of breeds I'm interested in have ethics that don't match up with mine. I don't expect everything to be perfect, it never is. I'm still trying to figure out what is a deal breaker.
     
  5. adojrts

    adojrts New Member

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    I would ask as well, and how long have the breeders known that the double merles were a huge risk?
     
  6. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    How do you mean? As far as I know, the only issue would be not being able to do eye tests on the stud for things like CEA. Maybe there's something I'm missing though.

    More I think about it the more I am thinking it would be a deal killer for me.
     
  7. Shai

    Shai & the Muttly Crew

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    I assume she means, did the breeders at the time not realize the risks assoiated with MM. Apologies if I've misinterpreted though.

    If it makes you a bit nervous, I'd ask them about it. If it makes you really uncomfortable or you aren't willing to have that conversation, look elsewhere. Just my two cers though.
     
  8. Sit Stay

    Sit Stay Not a Border Collie

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    I'd ask them about it, too. Might not be in the first email, but definitely a little later on in your discussions. Perhaps they are fully aware of the risks of breeding merle x merle and don't ordinarily support it but the stud in question was a perfect compliment, they looked a long time for his 'equal' with no luck, and they felt that the pro of producing the litter was greater than supporting whoever bred this double merle stud. That to me would be acceptable, but of course everyone has different opinions. I do wonder what their reasoning is behind their decision.
     
  9. JessLough

    JessLough Love My Mutt

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    It would be a deal breaker for me.

    If it's giving you pause, I'd look elsewhere. Though I'd want everything perfect :p
     
  10. adojrts

    adojrts New Member

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    Yes, that is what I meant :) I personally have no idea how long it has been known as a risk. To give the benifit of the doubt, if that cross was done prior to that knowledge then it wouldn't bother me. But I would still ask to confirm is the timeline was questionable.
     
  11. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    Oh when I say years I mean within the past 10. I think it was more like 5 or 6 years ago. So definitely has been known at the time. At least I would assume so considering people have known about double merles a while.
     
  12. Romy

    Romy Taxiderpy

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    I'd find out of that was the case ^

    Also, if he'd been used previously by other breeders they'd have had a chance to see how he produces, health-wise among other things before deciding to use him.
     
  13. Raegan

    Raegan Member

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    It would give me pause, but not a dealbreaker.

    Ultimately, I am buying a dog. I love Marsh's breeder and would not hesitate to buy a dog from her again, but there are many things we do not see eye to eye on. But I am buying a dog, for me. It's more important that I get a dog I like that will fill the functions I am buying him for.

    In other words, I wouldn't buy a dog from Lord Voldemort, but I would buy one from Percy Weasley.
     
  14. Lyzelle

    Lyzelle New Member

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    It would be a dealbreaker for me. I personally do not support double merle breedings and I'm not shelling out several hundred to a breeder who is just going to do it again. Might as well go to a BYBer. I feel like health isn't a priority in people who breed double merles. And that is also a dealbreaker for me. Again, I might as well go to a BYBer.

    Anything against the stud/dogs in question? No, of course not. But just because I like a dog, I'm not going to support bad breeding.

    Even a BYBer can have the best lines in the world. Does that mean they are a great breeder...no. And in the end, you're the one shelling out money to THEM. Not the dogs.

    If it gives you pause, don't do it.
     
  15. Aleron

    Aleron New Member

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    This is pretty much how I feel about it too. I bought a dog from a breeder who has done merle x merle breedings and my dog has a double merle grandsire (who is a dog I really, really like and would absolutely have bought a puppy sired by). I really couldn't be happier with my dog :)

    I think we are talking about a breeding this breeder did 5+ years ago to a double merle sire produced by a different breeder.
     
  16. Lyzelle

    Lyzelle New Member

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    Eh. I'd still be a bit wary, and tread carefully. I could see the hesitation rather than the complete turn off.
     
  17. sassafras

    sassafras mushinois

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    I wouldn't expect to find a breeder that 100% matched all my ethics, and there are plenty of practices that would not automatically turn me off a breeder, but this particular issue could be a deal breaker for me depending on a conversation with them about it regarding the circumstances and current feelings about the issue. Personally I find merle x merle breedings pretty appalling.* It's extremely unlikely that I could not find a dog for me anywhere else but this one breeder, and it's just not an attitude or mindset that I want to support regardless of how much I wanted a puppy from them. I'm a fan of voting with my dollar.

    *And yes, I understand that this breeder did not do the actual merle x merle breeding, but IMO using the stud confers an implicit approval of the practice in general.
     
  18. Aleron

    Aleron New Member

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    I don't know. Maybe the breeder choose to use a dog who matched what she was looking for really well and that dog happened to be a double merle bred by someone else. It doesn't sound like this breeder has ever done merle x merle breedings, so it's probably not something they are totally comfortable with. However, this dog was bred, the breeder obviously felt the dog was a good fit for their bitch (likely despite not because of the dog's color) and there's no risk in breeding a non-merle dog to him. I guess I don't see why the "well this breeder must have shady ethics" conclusion just because they one time decided to use a double merle male bred by someone else.
     
  19. sassafras

    sassafras mushinois

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    Again, personally I think it implies approval of the practice. *shrug*
     
  20. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    I agree on some issues but I don't on others. I don't agree with any breeder 100% but this particular issue is one that bothers me a lot.

    Anyways, I am still considering the breeder but only if some other options that I like a lot better aren't going to work out.
     

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