Discussion in 'The Breeding Ground' started by rousseau661, Jul 18, 2006.
Kudos all around !!!! Grammy's proud of you !
If you are going to neuter great-bulldogs are hard to breed and it costs a ton.
as far as when to neuter I don't like to see dogs altered untill they are fully mature. Especially with dogs that have bodys that can somewhat-I don't know adversely affect them later on in life.
But if there is any chance at all your dog could get to a female then fix at six months.
I don't really understand why you don't want to alter them until fully mature? Can you please explain a little more? What do you mean by "dogs that have bodies that can adversly affect them later on in life" Not sure what that means, like what kind of bodies or type of dog? Or do you mean all dogs?
And that is exactly why I said various things like "possibly being agressive" and it "should change the behavior for the better" "greatly reduces the chances of getting disease and cancer" and that last paragraph, yes I should have said "it CAN change behavior for the better" not a definate "It will" so I will go back and edit that because you are right. That isn't always the case. Just a majority.
There are studies that have shown that altering a male too young will cause them to not grow the same way they would if they were intact. Mainly, the dogs grow taller and are more slender, with longer legs, and don't fill out as much as they would if they were intact. My former OB trainer had Aussies, and one of hers was over 24" tall, way taller than he should be, because he was fixed at 8 weeks. He was blade thin too. He killed in the 24" agility class though!
This is why we have not altered Gunnar yet. We probably won't before he's 3, to make sure he's full grown and completely filled out.
if a sheltie is neutered before hes grown his full coat, then his coat will just mostly stop growing when he gets neutered,
thats why most people with shelties wait until there dogs have grown there full coat before they neuter them
Ohh ok I didnt realize that. I am honestly more of a cat person, in which case I am all for pediatric spay/neuters.
I will have to do a little more research on that topic with dogs. All the shelters I have worked at and all the people I know have had their dogs altered well before 6 months and I have never known of any problems. I doubt it is the case in every dog. Just certain breeds or individual dogs.
Yes, I wouldn't think that a small dog would be as affected as a large dog. We had our pug fixed young, as I mentioned, and he's a nice stocky boy now, but it's hard to say how it affected him. It certainly didn't affect him peeing on every blade of grass in the yard!
Hmm okay I was just reading what the IVIS had to say about it http://www.ivis.org/advances/Concannon/olson/chapter_frm.asp?LA=1
And it is actually pretty interesting. They basically said exactly what you did DanL about the effect of early neutering in dogs. It said they found the early neuters to be slightly taller.
What I am thinking about is from the point of view of an animal rescue person where it is really better to neuter or spay the dog as early as possible (6-12 weeks) since you have no idea if the adopter will follow through on their contract or not and by 6 months, accidental litters can happen to people who aren't careful or just plain ignorant.
If you are totally responsible and don't let your dog wander, if you aren't letting your dog get pregnant, or you are showing it, then that is a little different. Sorry I always just think about it from the shelter perspective. I doubt I would ever own a purebred though and in that case I would have the dog altered as early as possible.
I think alot of the shelters are neutering puppies and kittens before they send them to their adoptive families. My shelter cat was neutered at 12 weeks before I brought him home. I got my dog from a different shelter. He was 2 months old, and I just got a voucher to take him to get neutered at 6 months old. They did call and check to see if we had done it, though. My vet recommended waiting until 6 months, but the only reason he gave was that being a little older and weighing a little more made the anaesthesia less risky.
And both my male dogs were drowsy from the anaesthesia on the day of the neuter when I brought them home. By the next day, they were playing as usual. It didn't slow them down at all, and we didn't have any trouble with biting at or scratching the incision. It was like nothing had happened!
The only problem I can still say is that anesthesia is a lot harder on an older dog. Puppies recover almost like nothing happened. But ya, that is great if some shelters did a better follow up but not all of them do and the best way to guarentee it will be done is to do it before the animal leaves the shelter, no matter the age.
With dogs that are fixed early they always seem immature to me. Not jsut how they look(kinda gangly) but also how they act sometimes.
the bottom line for me is there is a higher risk of bone cancer which I have known many dogs to have than of any testicualr or mammery cancer. So I'd rather give my dog the chance to develop.
that said if ther eis any chance the dog will breed then it needs fixed asap.
Wow, I just learned a whole lot. I mean it is the internet so it is not alway believable but I was reading the IVIS and right now reading a 2005 article by Chris Zink DVM, PhD, DACVP. Very interesting, I guess it differs greatly between dogs and cats.
It's great everyone is being so civil with this, but I think the pro/con of neutering early gone on long enought to warrent it's own thread.
Is it really that big of deal? I though we were all just having a conversation. The OPs original questions were answered and now we are all just talking about whether early neuter is a good idea or not, which is a question the OP asked. If that is not allowed then sorry! I did not know that.
I would like to put you in touch with this breeder of bulldogs.
They have been in the breed for almost 40 years (she is second generation bulldogs), and she is a very nice person. Horney's is well known in the bulldog world, and they have bred numerous CHs.
She has an incredible depth of knowledge of the bulldog breed, and is very patient with sharing her time to educate newcomers to the breed.
Visit her website:
redyre, thank you so much, i will be contacting her and picking her brain. thanks, my bully was bread by 2nd gen bulldog breeders in OK, they were very helpful when it came to educating me on the breed, as for everyone else, thank you for the help and not blowing up on the forum newb. i own a business that caters to the custom car industry and i am p[art of a few forums where we flame on people for dumb questions so i thank you for holding back.lol
LOL- no problem! It's always such a treat when someone comes here with a question and actually has the intelligence and patience to LISTEN to the various answers.
I don't consider questions like this "dumb" in the least. Everyone has to learn somewhere, and this is a mindboggling sort of world that most people don't even realize exists. The only thing I consider "dumb" is when it becomes clear that the person asking the question never wanted an honest answer.
Good luck with your pup- he's quite the cutie!