Election Results

Discussion in 'The Fire Hydrant' started by Renee750il, Nov 6, 2012.

  1. sassafras

    sassafras mushinois

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    Ok, let's call it "little purple health care fairies sneak into my bedroom at night to make free bandages out of my paycheck." The point is that it is neither a new nor revolutionary idea that some of us are paying for other people's healthcare.
     
  2. Pops2

    Pops2 New Member

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    Milo's Mommy said "SOCIALIZED MEDICINE, EDUCATION ETC
    meaning a much high level of social programs than the USA. and she said "Their economies are strong, crime rates are low, unemployment is low, they're making strides in education, science, medicine"
    NOT ALL IN GREEN meet those grandiose claims, in fact few do.
    so which ones in green actually have a strong economy, AND low crime rates AND low unemployment?
     
  3. sassafras

    sassafras mushinois

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    To clarify, are you saying that it is illegal for insurance companies to raise premiums to cover the costs of the uninsured? Or are you just saying that they lie about that being the reason they raise premiums? I've been trying to read up on this and I can't find any regulations addressing the former.
     
  4. Pops2

    Pops2 New Member

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    i'll do a little for you
    here are 4 countries from your map whose economies are dramatically STRONGER than their neighbors or the world in general AND have a but load of social programs in their govt:
    switzerland
    germany
    kuwait
    brunei

    my matches on the opposite end
    argentina just had a naval ship seized by the govt of ghana to be auctioned off & the money will be given to a US creditor company (unless ARG decides to treat it as an act of war and take it back from ghana by force)
    greece is collapsing both governemntally and economically
    tunisia had it's government overthrown during the arab spring
    botswana is engaged in violent persecution of the San bushmen on behalf of debeers

    don't get me wrong, social services is the reason for govt in the first place (fire, police etc), and for some CULTURES social programs can be provided w/o adverse effect to the economy or the level of individual liberty they are ACCUSTOMED TO. it's just that in the american culture social programs have RARELY had a positive effect on the economy & almost universally have had an adverse effect on individual liberty.
     
  5. Pops2

    Pops2 New Member

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    unless you have a state law requiring the insurance companies pay for uninsured (by definitions NOT their customers), they are lieing. it is paid by taxes (although never in full) by federal programs. someone else had it right that what the govt doesn't pay is often recovered by the medical community raising prices to offset the losses.
     
  6. sassafras

    sassafras mushinois

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    Ok, I thought you were saying it was illegal for insurance companies to do so. But whether they are lying or not is a matter of opinion, surely? I wouldn't put it past them to lie, but I wouldn't put it past them to essentially work the same technicalities that we are working in this discussion - no, they are not directly paying for the care of the uninsured. But if they are raising premiums in response to higher medical costs, then yes I am indirectly paying for the cost of the uninsured via my premiums. And I'm already paying with my taxes, so... again my original point stands. How is it suddenly a new and revolutionary idea under the current administration worthy of hand-wringing and gnashing of teeth?

    Well that someone was me, too, but essentially isn't it the same thing simply worded a different way? Because if the medical community raises their prices, then my insurance premiums go up. I stand by my point that the end of the day, I'm paying... and right now I'm paying through taxes AND my premiums. And my taxes and premiums are paying for a very inefficient delivery of healthcare when the uninsured, for example, end up in expensive health crises instead of managing chronic conditions properly all along.
     
  7. ihartgonzo

    ihartgonzo and Fozzie B!

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    I would love to move to Denmark... my ancestor's homeland. They have socialized medicine & education, amazing people, music programs, animal welfare, AND it's the happiest place on earth! ;) I only wish the US could adapt the same social structure. But I feel like we're too far gone.

    As far as the election, I'm happy. Policies aside I feel that Mitt Romney is not a good person - and that's of utmost importance for me. I don't want a scumbag president. After his unbelievably ignorant statements about women and his hilarious dog abuse stories, not to mention his fake, wishy washy, cheeseball personality... no thanks.
     
  8. Pops2

    Pops2 New Member

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    we are NOT getting fully social healthcare like canada. the only thing that will change is that your premiums will go up because the insurance companies can't refuse pre-existing conditions. you'll still make up shortfall from the homeless & such (although they might be in prison since they surely won't be buying insurance) w/ your taxes. you'll still be buying health insurance. i have tricare so it won't change anything for me. my primary objection is the individual mandate & the adverse effect it will have on a lot of families barely making. think about this, they can't afford to buy insurance now. they won't be able to afford it after the law takes effect, AND they're going to be fined $2500 by the IRS for not buying it. how precisely is this a benefit to them or anyone?
     
  9. Tahla9999

    Tahla9999 Active Member

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  10. Pops2

    Pops2 New Member

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    i don't know that i'd call him a scumbag but i felt the same way.
     
  11. ihartgonzo

    ihartgonzo and Fozzie B!

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    I guess scumbag is harsh. But I get a grimey feeling whenever I watch him. It's unfortunate that the republican party didn't have a better candidate, not that I'm republican, but that's definitely not the candidate out there.
     
  12. Romy

    Romy Taxiderpy

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    I think Ryan killed it for him anyway. He is way too extreme for the undecided moderates, I know of many many moderate voters, especially women, who don't agree with Obama but were terrified of the prospect of Ryan potentially becoming pres if something happened to Romney.

    Looking at how close it was in the end, I really think that if they'd paired him with an intelligent moderate woman (like NOT Bachman, lol) he totally would have won.
     
  13. GipsyQueen

    GipsyQueen Active Member

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    Scandanavien Health care systems are pretty amazing. Unfortunatly, places like Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Finland have pretty high day-to-day living costs. Their paychecks are higher though. A friend of mine is in Norway at the moment - when she told me what minium wage was I went: :eek: . Your average income is about 4500€ a month. (after taxes).


    Germany's health care system isn't perfect - but if I think how little we actually pay when we see a doctor, I'm pretty thankful. You used to have to pay 10€ every quater you visit the doctors... Once 2013 comes along, it's "free" (most of the time)


    I was pretty relieved when I saw the election results. But - whats wrong with Florida? Why are they taking so long?
     
  14. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

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    Part of this is because the insurance industry gets HUGE discounts to what an uninsured person is charged. As an example, my mom had some minor surgery. The cost to the insurance company (less her $200 deductible) was just under $1000.

    However, if she had NOT had insurance, had been paying it out of pocket, the charge would have been $10,000.
     
  15. Fran27

    Fran27 New Member

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    Well, how many of those people are broke because of medical expenses? How will those people who can't afford $200 a month for a basic plan (totally putting a random number there) be able to afford a $30,000 bill if something happens and they have to go to the hospital? Honestly it's just crazy to me that people don't want health insurance. The meds I need to use alone cost like $1000 a month without insurance. Without them, I'd probably have to go to the hospital a lot. Paying for insurance is just cheaper in the long run.

    So... I see both points. But IMO it's still the lesser of two evils.

    But something needs to be done about health insurances. In France I was paying $50 out of pocket every month for my meds. Office visits were $15, and I was getting most of that back. I came here, no insurance, and paid $2500 for the same things. It's totally ridiculous. As far as I'm concerned, any business trying to make money out of people's health issues is just absolutely disgusting.
     
  16. Pops2

    Pops2 New Member

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    that's just it there WERE MUCH BETTER candidates. for all the demo hype romney was VERY moderate closer to a moderate dem than any kind of a repub. THAT pushed away a lot of people to 3rd party candidates that want to eliminate the overspending of BOTH parties.
     
  17. Romy

    Romy Taxiderpy

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    It's cheaper in the long run if you get hurt or sick. But for many families who are getting by paycheck to paycheck, the $$ just isn't there for insurance so it's just not possible. I can't afford it. The $$ is just absent. Been job hunting for months, still nothing. Thousands upon thousands of people are in the same situation.

    My mom has to buy insurance because she's older and has some age associated medical expenses. She used to pay $200 a month for private insurance. Since Obama introduced Obamacare and the thing where they can't deny preexisting conditions, they jacked up her premium to over $800 a month. And she can't find any private insurance for less than that. That's just for one person, and she still has to pay a $30 copay for visits and a copay for medication. It's super crappy, but she feels like she doesn't have a choice because if she was diagnosed with cancer or something she'd be screwed without it.

    If she wasn't a homeowner, there's no way she'd be able to afford it. If she had to pay rent, it'd be a choice between health insurance and rent. Many many people don't have that choice. I mean, they could buy insurance but then they and their children would be living under some bridge in a cardboard box.
     
  18. crazedACD

    crazedACD Active Member

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    +a million. He's a total sleezeball, just doesn't seem like a good person.
     
  19. release the hounds

    release the hounds Active Member

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    Insurance really a racket. It is. Let's say we have an E/M code, moderate complexity and for the geographical region a "normal charge can be between 90-150 bucks. Providers under contract with that ins. company are going to be reimbursed anywhere from 35-70 dollars for that code.

    Most providers would be more than happy to accept that from a non insured person too, but they can't "charge" you that much because ins company lobbying has made it "illegal" for a provider to have 2 different rate scales. You can get around this by having a TOS or time of service reduction and it has to be offered to everybody. There are certain criteria that must be met, like the appt has to be made so much in advance and you MUST pay at the time of service. If you only pay part, make a payment plan, get billed later etc it doesn't apply and legally you must be charged the full amount with no applicable discount or the provider runs the risk of being charged with insurance fraud.

    But if the provider is only charging 70 bucks for that same 99203 E/M code the insurers gather that info and it wouldn't be long till the reimbursement for those Evaluation codes went down to 35 bucks, so the charges are always going to be much higher.

    They also like to dictate procedure codes. They will continually deny certain procedure codes and make it very difficult to get paid. So the providers must pay staff to call, write letters and do appeals in order to get a procedure code paid that should be paid in the first place no questions asked. Usually it involves sending claims, getting denied and depending on the provider certain things happen from there. A lot of the larger ones will jsut pass it on to the patient and make them responsible, because ultimately they are. They can't or won't spend the extra overhead to fight insurance claims for hundreds of other people. But some will. They then have to send in requested notes, and they get denied again. Then they have to write a letter for an appeal and those go thru various stages. Some just a simple phone call, after a 30 minute wait, the adjuster will say, yep, you're right, and then pay it.

    Some say up, you're right, the claim will be reprocessed and payment should be recieved in 10-15 days. 15 days later it was denied again and the process starts over and they say, oops. our mistake, we'll have to reprocess, fun stuff.

    Others will tell you outright that you can appeal and we'll keep denying it, but if you use "X" code we'll pay. So a lot of providers will just do that, easier and less hassle. The problem in doing that is INS. companies are gathering all that info to deny future claims. they gather all the data and say, "see, nobody is using this procedure code anymore so the therapy or procedure must not be effective" and use that gathered info to deny more claims and other insurance companies latch on.

    It's really sad game of back and forth and trying to get paid and deny, but I guess necessary becaus so many try to screw the system in the first place.
     
  20. darkchild16

    darkchild16 We are Home.

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    Its not as easy as that though. Health insurance out of pocket for my family with Blue Cross and Blue Shield is:
    224.40 with a 5 THOUSAND dollar deductible.
    for a $1500 deductible it is
    585.00

    BEFORE we get into medical history. No maternity, no dental, only the 600 dollar one includes vision.

    To take my kids to the dr out of pocket is $120 for a check up and shots, $75 for a sick visit, $100 for a checkup no shots.

    For us we have a sliding scale dr. Hospitals will make payment plans/have grants.

    It literally would NOT pay for us to have health insurance out of pocket.

    Jeremy has been with his job 4 YEARS at full time hours and they refused to give him a full time employment status and that was legally ok.

    He gets a limited health plan for all of us with Pizza Hut that we are looking into I need to call them but its been insane with Savannah that I haven't had 2 seconds to figure it all out.

    Its not so cut and dry as OMG you are crazy for not having insurance. Out of pocket insurance is CRAZY.
     

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