Doodles (and how Labradoodles are different)

[~Dixie's_Mom~]

I was a tad sarcastic when I said that the Australian Labrapoo was totally unique. I am well aware that it isn't a simple mix of lab & poodle, but has an added injection of several other breeds.

The cross may be well on its way towards becoming a breed, but you CANNOT deny that it has a long way to go! Here's a quote from the "breed standard" of the "Australian Labradoodle Club of America".

"Size: Sizes are still "somewhat inconsistent" with no definition between male and female at this time. Accurate prediction of size, even by an experienced breeder, is not expected at this time." :yikes:

As for consistency, I guess there is even controversy by the "respected" breeders as to the name the breed should have!! (Actually, I think that would be the BEST thing they could do, as "labradoodle" has some serious negative conotations, and serious breeders would do well to avoid that label.)

Now, I never said that you breeder was a BYB... never even implied it! I understand what is happening with a few dedicated breeders creating a new breed from a cross. It is a fascinating process to watch, but you have to admit that 99% of the labrapoo owners out there have no idea what is going on... they just want one of those fancy "hypo-allergenic" dogs they've been hearing about. And I think we both agree that BYBs have been breeding like crazy to satisfy the crazy demand for these "designer dogs".


As for my statement about the number of show quality per litter, it was neither pro or con... just a fact. If everyone who thought they had a show quality dog actually DID, you'd see them on every streetcorner! Most people who spend $1000 on a dog seem to think it is Westminster quality.

Oh, and the 14-yr-old part wasn't a reference to you but to a few other folks who have posted with big plans to breed designer dogs, even though they have no experience in showing or breeding.
Ever meet a 14-yr-old who DIDN'T know more than someone twice (or three times) their age? :lol-sign:

http://www.chazhound.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34666

Please read....I'm the "14 yr old" you're talking about, and I'm not breeding any 'designer' breeds anytime in the future, and I don't have show experience myself, no, I'm 14....I've visited many local shows, and I'm learning.-And I have experience in breeding. Anyway, back on topic-Labradoodles.

 

[LabBreeder]

Hopefully no designer breeding at all...not just "anytime in the future".

 

[~Dixie's_Mom~]

-Oh, and I've never met anyone who doesn't know someone 2-3x their own age....my parents are *almost* 3x(dad) and 4x(mom) my age...lol. But, that may not have been what you meant-

 

[~Dixie's_Mom~]

Hopefully no designer breeding at all...not just "anytime in the future".

*lol, -at all :lol-sign:

 

[micro202]

if you aim for the best and only end up with a couple of show quality dogs and a bunch of pet quality dogs, what happens when you only aim for mediocrity? responsible breeders are trying to produce the best dogs both physically (health and conformation) and temperamentally. whether these dogs are used for show or for companionship shouldn't matter. don't pet owners deserve physically sound and healthy, temperamentally solid dogs, too? doesn't it matter just as much to a pet owner that their dog doesn't go blind at the age of 4 or isn't crippled by hip dysplasia or isn't so temperamentally unsound that it requires a huge amount of work just to make the dog into a reasonable pet?

well, that's not really what i was trying to get at. if you notice at the beginning of my post i stated that i completely understand the arguments concerning proper health testing and other related issues.

i'm actually not advocating breeding specifically for pets, but at the same time i think it's kind of hypocritical in some circumstances to rationalize breeding solely for conformation for dogs that are often never going to be used in a working situation.

it often seems like a strawman argument to get a free ride in the breeding debate and to me is often no more or less justified that a person that "responsibly" breeds for pets. does it matter if the dog's shoulder is 10 inches from the ground instead of 12? does it matter if they have white spots when the breed conformation says they shouldn't? how is breeding for those abitrary traits not related to health and temperment any more acceptible in today's world when there is no real world use for the dog having 10 inch shoulders and a coat that blends in with its surroundings?

 

[lakotasong]

We also intend to show/breed Huskies, and Maltese and they are not added to the site yet. We're still looking for quality dogs of these breeds.

:yikes:

 

[MomOf7]

My whole problem with doodles (and purebreds from BYBs) is the lack of health testing. I check various doodle sites when I run across them and they often talk about the coat and color, but I've yet to see one who does OFA and CERF. Both Poodles and Labradors have genetic hip and eye problems in their breed, so breeding them together will mean the pups could develop problems as well. (It is NOT true that mixing breeds automatically makes them immune to genetic disorders).

This is exactly what concerns me. If you know a little about genetics it would concern you as well. There is not enough history with the "doodles" to constitute enough study and research done on genetic anomalies.
It would be like taking a gorilla and breeding it to a chimpanzee. Never know what your going to end up with. At least with purebreds who have specific well known lineage bred to well thought out and researched lineage you can have more specific traits and possible problems that you already are aware of.
By traits I mean body styles, performance, temperments, and potential genetic anomalies such as HD or PRA.
In Doodles there just isnt enough real scientific study and research.
There are so many different breeds out there that can fit our suit different needs why even take a chance? I can tell you why. Because these doodle breeders while some may seem to be careful and responsible really dont have the best for their breed in mind. If they did they wouldnt even of made a doodle. They would have studied and researched different breeds that could fit thier needs and desires of a working/show dog. Most dogs are bred for a purpose other then to be just a pet.

 

[lakotasong]

I'm not the only one who'd breeding. My sister will be breeding, and titleing the Husky (and she's going to be fine with my Yorkies, I've had the 2 breeds together in the past, and all was FINE), the maltese will be bred by my mother (who has no computer experience, so she's educating herself w/ books) and I'm breeding the Silkshire and Yorkie. We're a family kennel as explained in the website. I'm not a BYB. Yes, I am 14, but everyone starts somewhere. I'm more educated then most 50yr olds on dogs, and I'm learning more everyday.

Don't come crying when whatever poorly bred Siberian your family manages to acquire intact scarfs up your toy dogs in a single bite. You are a BYB and you certainly are not very educated. I know families like yours, I've kicked them out of our local 4H dog club because of their lack of ethics. Kids to parents, all they wanted to do was pop out cute puppies and sell them to unsuspecting buyers. Stating that you're going to show and health test on your site means nothing - actions speak louder than words and you've already bred irresponsibly (the Yorkie mutts).

 

[MomOf7]

ok, can somebody explain what niche the labradoodle and such is filling that we need to continue to create them? you're crossing a retriever breed to another retriever breed. how is this making anything so earth-shatteringly new?

and no, most breeds did *not* begin as crossbreeds.

LMAO!!! I will never understand this as well! :lol-sign:
The day I mix one of my labs with a poodle you can go ahead and shoot me cause I am out of my mind anyways:yikes:

 

[stevinski]

Ever meet a 14-yr-old who DIDN'T know more than someone twice (or three times) their age?

i'm 14 and i probs no more about dogs then half the BYB's on here

 

[stevinski]

I'm not the only one who'd breeding. My sister will be breeding, and titleing the Husky (and she's going to be fine with my Yorkies, I've had the 2 breeds together in the past, and all was FINE), the maltese will be bred by my mother (who has no computer experience, so she's educating herself w/ books) and I'm breeding the Silkshire and Yorkie. We're a family kennel as explained in the website. I'm not a BYB. Yes, I am 14, but everyone starts somewhere. I'm more educated then most 50yr olds on dogs, and I'm learning more everyday.

your not very eucated if you think anyone will take you seriously as a responsible breeder with a post like that

 

[lakotasong]

Steve,

I wish more young'ns could be like you!!

 

[MomOf7]

your not very eucated if you think anyone will take you seriously as a responsible breeder with a post like that

Were obviously not edumacated enough Steve. All us who appose just need to learn more about breeding practices huh?!:lol-sign:

 

[stevinski]

thanks Summit

lol i know what you mean,

how can anyone use i'm breeding silkshires and yorkies
and then i am not a byb in the same sentence?

 

[~Dixie's_Mom~]

thanks Summit

lol i know what you mean,

how can anyone use i'm breeding silkshires and yorkies
and then i am not a byb in the same sentence?

http://www.chazhound.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34666

Must I post this again? People, please read the other posts before you make rude comments...

 

[~Dixie's_Mom~]

your not very eucated if you think anyone will take you seriously as a responsible breeder with a post like that

Okay, just to clear this all up, so people will stop yelling at me, we're no longer going to breed our Silkshire(silky/yorkie) or Huskies. We'll be spaying both our Husky (when we get her) and our Silkshire when she's 6mo. I'm going to be breeding my Yorkie when she's 2yrs old and has been OFA, and CERF tested, and my sister is getting a Maltese who she'll get tested, and we're going to breed Yorkies and Maltese. NOT mixes. If you have anything else to say to me please PM me. We're going too off-topic.

 

[stevinski]

why are you going to breed your yorkie though?

even if they are being tested it still doesnt give a reason for the breeding?

 

[stevinski]

also you do realise there is alot more to breeding then having two tested dogs,

theres picking the perfect stud, picking one that has good points that can help your bitches bad points (vice, versa),
how they would help the breed, do they have good temperament, valued by yorkie breeders and the yorkie breed?

and there is more tests that should be done other then OFA and CERF

and you said you want to show one of the puppies,
what if they arent show worthy?
what if they are deformed?
what if the bitch has a terrible labour and looses the pups?
what if you get the pups but the bitch dies and you have to raise the pups yourself?

these things and more should ALL be considered and you should be prepared for all events when breeding a dog.

any good breeder will tell you that dog breeding is often risky and uncertain

 

[Whisper]

why are you going to breed your yorkie though?

even if they are being tested it still doesnt give a reason for the breeding?

I was also wondering. Kudos to thinking about spaying your Silkshire. . .by why does your Yorkie need to be bred? (I don't mean to sound accusatory at all.)

 

[CamzKees]

To the OP

My problems with designer dogs are varied

1) most designer dog breeders are unethical
2) there is no standard to judge a good dog
3) most aren't even what the breeders claim them to be a) non shedding b) free of health problems
4) you can't show them, but they cost more then most purebred dogs
5) there are shelter puppies who are mixed who need homes just as badly (and yes, you can ask about a dog's back ground before you adopt it. you just wanted a designer dog, rather then a pound puppy)

Comparing two mixed breeds, lets do Labradoodles and Eurasiers.

Labradoodles = poodle + lab
Eurasiers = keeshond + chow + samoyed

Both breeds have been around only a short time. HOwever, Eurasiers already have a standard, and are about to become recognized as a breed in Europe, if they haven't already been made a breed.

Here is an exerpt from www.eurasiers.org :

The Eurasier is a German dog breed that was developed in the 1960s. The ancestors of the Eurasier, the Wolfspitz and the Chow Chow, were cross-bred and the new breed was then called the Wolf-Chow. In 1972 the Wolf-Chow was crossed with the Samoyed and the offspring was renamed Eurasier. A year later the Eurasier was recognized by the Federation Cynologique International (FCI).

The Eurasier is a medium-size, Spitz-type dog with a medium bone structure and a soft, medium length coat in various colors. The Eurasier can also have a pink, blue-black or spotted tongue.

Height and Weight
Males: 52 - 60cm (20.5 - 23.6 inches); 23 - 32 kg (50.6 - 70.4 lbs)
Females: 48 - 56 cm (18.9 - 22 inches); 18 - 26 kg (39.6 - 57.2 lbs)

Eurasiers are intelligent and self-confident; well-balanced, and with a high tolerance level. They are watchful and alert without being incessant barkers; they are loyal to the family but reserved with strangers without being unfriendly. The Eurasier is also loving with children and gets along well with other family pets. In the home the Eurasier is calm; during walks he is lively and full of energy.

The excellent qualities of the Eurasier will only develop if he is allowed to live in close contact with his family. He cannot be housed in kennels or left tied up outside. Easily trained, the Eurasier needs love and understanding.