Dog Dies When Owner Leaves it Home Alone to Attend Competition

Muttkip

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#81
She actually had TWO Akitas, 2-4 JRT's, 5-6 APBT's, 2 SBT's, a Patterdale, a BC and another dog I think I'm forgetting. The other Akita she has is about 15 years old.
 

JessLough

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#82
and you don't HAVE to leave your dog for 30 minutes, but most do. In fact, I'd say every single dog owned by every person on this forum and all over the world has been left all alone with zero supervision for 12 hours or more, most probably have hit close to the 24 hour mark at least once in their lives for one reason or another. I bet few on this thread would admit to it. Dogs can die in the blink of an eye. A day without a human is nothing for dogs. Like I said, i'm surprised they aren't extinct with this 24 hour rule. It's amazing they're still alive.

A dog left alone in a shop, climate controlled 80 degrees with water would have a relative increase of danger of zero over one left alone for 5 hours in a house. The only difference is the one in your mind.

the dog was left in a shop, big deal. most of you would like to crucify her for that while she was at a competition. ignoring that for the entire week, she was at work WITH her dog, unlike the majority of owners that have to leave their dogs at home, unsupervised for hours, and it works for millions upon millions of dog owners.
Climate control fails. She had NOBODY to make sure that it kept working. An AKITA in Florida weather. With ONE bowl (or two small bowls, depending which article) or water. Yah, heat stroke DOES set in that fast, sorry to tell you.

Why yes, people leave their dogs for work. But they go home TO THEIR DOGS after. Most people work what? 8 hours? So they are away from their dogs for 8 hours... BUT THEY ARE HOME WITH THEM FOR 16 hours a day. It was longer than 24 hours, also ;)

and yah, I will be the first to fight that no, rosey has NEVER, in the 14 years and (almost) 9 months that we have had her, been left for anywhere near 12 hours without supervision. EVER. We have 5 people living here, somebody is always home, if we went somewhere for the day, my grandmother was more than happy to come sit with her. Yes, it would absolutely ruin her if she was left for that long, leave her for 2 hours and she is freaking out. There is Always somebody home with her ;)
 
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#83
This dog was left for more like 48 hours though no?
from the article it was sat morning, to sunday morning.

I trial, I have 7 dogs. I don't have neighbours who can check on them.
and I don't have neighbors I trust to check on mine, I take mine everywhere, or I don't go far, but because I live that way doesn't mean everybody else has to in order to be a loving dog owner. 24 hours is nothing for a dog to be left alone in a climate controlled shop with or without water and no food. it isn't. It might not be "nice" but it is hardly life threatening to any healthy dog.

I gave examples (with horses.. but I have ones with dogs too) of how something that might not be an issue for a few hours, even a day CAN become life threatenign if left for 24 hours.
and I gave an example of a guy, (with dogs) that fed his, let it out at night and woke up the next morning to a dead dog. He goes to bed about 10 and leaves for work at 430 everyday, so that is what, maybe 6 hours? Is he a criminal? Something can become life threatening in 10 minutes or less, what is your point? the fact of the matter remains the same. Almost every single dog alive is capable, and has probably at some point, has spent 12 hours or more alone, without food, without water and without a human and almost every single one has been just fine and should be. 24 hours is nothing it's not a week, it's a time frame that any dog should be able to be just fine and dandy for. because you don't live that way, doesn't mean it's criminal.



Is it ok to leave a dog for a month in fact a month is a little smaller in magnatude in the opposite direction. So a month should be just fine if there is enough food and water right?
yeah, let's make this more ridiculous, let's go from 24 hours to a month. They are obviously on the same level.

Laying around for a day with water in 80 shaded degrees with a fan is not life threatening. I don't care how many ways you want to argue that it is.

You can't reasonably expect a dog to die laying around in 80 degree weather, if so, there would be a ton of dead dogs everyday. They aren't that weak, or that stupid. It's humans that either put them in 130 degree situations, or run them to exhaustion in hot temps that cause a problem, not a dog left alone in 80 degrees.

YOu can't reasonably expect a dog to die from not having food for 24 hours.

you wouldn't reasonably expect a dog that has been given food and water, even if the water spills, to die 24 hours later. you wouldn't even reasonably expect a dog just laying around for 24 hours without water to be in any danger at all.

Any other situations that could become "dangerous" in your hypotheticals could become just as dangerous while you're gone to work or school for 5 hours as 24..
 
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#84
Climate control fails. She had NOBODY to make sure that it kept working. An AKITA in Florida weather. With ONE bowl (or two small bowls, depending which article) or water. Yah, heat stroke DOES set in that fast, sorry to tell you.

Why yes, people leave their dogs for work. But they go home TO THEIR DOGS after. Most people work what? 8 hours? So they are away from their dogs for 8 hours... BUT THEY ARE HOME WITH THEM FOR 16 hours a day. It was longer than 24 hours, also ;)

and yah, I will be the first to fight that no, rosey has NEVER, in the 14 years and (almost) 9 months that we have had her, been left for anywhere near 12 hours without supervision. EVER. We have 5 people living here, somebody is always home, if we went somewhere for the day, my grandmother was more than happy to come sit with her. Yes, it would absolutely ruin her if she was left for that long, leave her for 2 hours and she is freaking out. There is Always somebody home with her ;)
well of course not, you're perfect :) especially on the internet
 

AdrianneIsabel

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#85
If someone chased down and shot a dog there would still be devils advocates, honestly, at a certain point you just have to agree to disagree and go hug your animals knowing they're lucky to be safer in your arms.

The one part about the article that baffles me still is Carla had at least 12 dogs (verifiable on registries), now has at least 6 per her recent winnings posts( plus her other Akita in the article) and yet is only allowed 5? We're missing something...
 

CaliTerp07

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#86
In fact, I'd say every single dog owned by every person on this forum and all over the world has been left all alone with zero supervision for 12 hours or more, most probably have hit close to the 24 hour mark at least once in their lives for one reason or another.
Really? I would highly doubt that. The longest Lucy has every been alone is 10 or 11 hours, and that's very, very rarely--probably once a year when something drastic comes up at work last minute or I get stuck in horrible traffic on the way home.

I can't think of a reason why a dog would ever need to be alone for 12+ hours. If we're going to be gone overnight, Lucy comes with us or goes to a sitter.
 

~Tucker&Me~

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#87
I don't think my dogs have ever been left alone for more than about 9 hours without having a neighbour or family member at least check in and let them have a potty break... So I am with Cali on that one.
 

JennSLK

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#89
Personaly I would never willingly leave dogs for more than 12 hrs. I have. I hit about 23hrs once. However that was a extreem winter storm, closed hiways, downed powerlines, ect.. and I lived 35km out of town. Was I happy? No. Did I worry? Hell yeah.

I could not imagine leaveing a dog for that long to go have fun
 

Danefied

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#90
I think its pretty clear that not many on here would willingly leave a dog unattended like that, but like it or not, it is not illegal. Which is what bothers ME about the whole situation. The way I see it, there is probably more to the story - I'm thinking there were other incidents and the owner had been previously warned which is usually the case when you see a judge throw the book at someone for a seemingly minor deal. Plus we don't know what condition the dog was found in, we don't know what the dog died of, there was no autopsy, there's a lot we don't know. (Though I do know that the person in question was logged on to Chaz last night.)

But if in fact it was just this one incident, then that worries me for all dog owners. Does that mean that if one of my old men crosses the bridge when I'm at school, and the UPS guy happens to notice before I get home, that I too am liable to fines and 30 days in jail in addition to the pain of losing one of my dogs?
Is it the time frame that is an issue? Is there a law in Florida that states how long an animal can be left without supervision? Does it specify what types of animals? Because I know for sure there are people with cats and livestock in Florida who leave them unattended for longer than 24 hours and don't get in trouble when one dies.

FWIW, I think a lot of us are reacting to WHY the dog was left alone. It was planned and willing for a frivolous reason. I don't think the response would be as strong if she had intended to only leave the dog for say 8 hours, but had maybe been in a car accident on her way home from visiting an elderly relative and was stuck in the hospital or something.
 

Romy

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#91
I think its pretty clear that not many on here would willingly leave a dog unattended like that, but like it or not, it is not illegal. Which is what bothers ME about the whole situation. The way I see it, there is probably more to the story - I'm thinking there were other incidents and the owner had been previously warned which is usually the case when you see a judge throw the book at someone for a seemingly minor deal. Plus we don't know what condition the dog was found in, we don't know what the dog died of, there was no autopsy, there's a lot we don't know. (Though I do know that the person in question was logged on to Chaz last night.)

But if in fact it was just this one incident, then that worries me for all dog owners. Does that mean that if one of my old men crosses the bridge when I'm at school, and the UPS guy happens to notice before I get home, that I too am liable to fines and 30 days in jail in addition to the pain of losing one of my dogs?
Is it the time frame that is an issue? Is there a law in Florida that states how long an animal can be left without supervision? Does it specify what types of animals? Because I know for sure there are people with cats and livestock in Florida who leave them unattended for longer than 24 hours and don't get in trouble when one dies.

FWIW, I think a lot of us are reacting to WHY the dog was left alone. It was planned and willing for a frivolous reason. I don't think the response would be as strong if she had intended to only leave the dog for say 8 hours, but had maybe been in a car accident on her way home from visiting an elderly relative and was stuck in the hospital or something.
If I was on the jury I would have wanted to see an autopsy or something. Who knows what evidence was presented though. It's entirely possible the judge was reacting to it being a planned absence like a lot of people here are. An emergency situation where crap just happened is different, as the intent isn't there.

No idea if the laws are anything like Arizona, but in Tucson you are not allowed to put your dog on a tie out, among other things, because the risk of your dog ending up dead within minutes if it gets tangled and can't get out of the sun or dumps its water is too high. I have no idea what the weather is like in that part of Florida, but it's possible they have something similar. I know in Tucson nobody left their dog crated in the house even without putting water in it. The risk of it ending badly if the AC went out was too high. If a dog died in those circumstances because of the heat, I imagine someone would be in deep doodoo down there too.
 

Dekka

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#92
yeah, let's make this more ridiculous, let's go from 24 hours to a month. They are obviously on the same level.
You were the one who made it ridiculous, I just pointed it out ;) 30 minutes is to 24 hours what 24 hours is to ~ a month. I was just extrapolating the other way to show the fallacy of your argument.

Laying around for a day with water in 80 shaded degrees with a fan is not life threatening. I don't care how many ways you want to argue that it is.

You can't reasonably expect a dog to die laying around in 80 degree weather, if so, there would be a ton of dead dogs everyday. They aren't that weak, or that stupid. It's humans that either put them in 130 degree situations, or run them to exhaustion in hot temps that cause a problem, not a dog left alone in 80 degrees.

YOu can't reasonably expect a dog to die from not having food for 24 hours.

you wouldn't reasonably expect a dog that has been given food and water, even if the water spills, to die 24 hours later. you wouldn't even reasonably expect a dog just laying around for 24 hours without water to be in any danger at all.

Any other situations that could become "dangerous" in your hypotheticals could become just as dangerous while you're gone to work or school for 5 hours as 24..
I guess you didn't read them. /Shrugs. And left alone in 80 weather is fine? What if there is no air? Buildings like cars can heat up.

I am also agreeing we don't know the whole situation. Likely there is more. BUT regardless I (as in me personally) don't think someone should up and leave a dog with out anyone to check on them to go show for a weekend. THAT is what I have an issue with. Do I think she should have been charged? If this was a one time thing, no other incidents, no necropsy and no other circumstances... then no. But I never said she did.. I said I think its wrong to plan to leave your dog alone that long to go play with your others.
 

cloudcandy

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#93
Very sad for the poor dog,and the owner...ish?Whether it's right or wrong to leave your dog alone that long,I just would not feel comfortable doing so!I wouldn't be able to relax or focus on other things tbh!
Would be interested to know what the dog died of though,since as other people have pointed out dog's that have been rescued from dire situations have been found alive?
Also not comfortable with the store dog idea,how could you have 5 dog's at home and then leave this poor one by himself!Not nice! :(
 
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#94
FWIW, I think a lot of us are reacting to WHY the dog was left alone. It was planned and willing for a frivolous reason. I don't think the response would be as strong if she had intended to only leave the dog for say 8 hours, but had maybe been in a car accident on her way home from visiting an elderly relative and was stuck in the hospital or something.
and I don't think her reason was very good either. But it worked for her. She had 5 at home and one that she kept at her work, seemingly because that one and her other akita did not get along. People find themselves in less than ideal situations with dogs all the time, and short of beating, strangling, starving, etc, i'm willing to give owners the benefit of the doubt to make something work for themselves.

You were the one who made it ridiculous, I just pointed it out 30 minutes is to 24 hours what 24 hours is to ~ a month. I was just extrapolating the other way to show the fallacy of your argument.
a dog can go 30 minutes without water, it can go 24 hours as well if it's water dish tips over. A dog can go for 30 minutes in 80 degree temps and no be in any danger at all, just as it can easily lay around in a shaded store of those same temps for 24 hours with no danger to it. It can go 30 minutes without food the same as it can 24 hours, with a zero increase of relative danger to it. Extrapolate it out to 30 days and I think the outcomes change drastically. Sorry you can't see the difference.

I guess you didn't read them. /Shrugs. And left alone in 80 weather is fine? What if there is no air? Buildings like cars can heat up.
I don't care if it was 90. and buildings don't heat up that fast. WHen a building is left at a constant temp most of the time and the ac fails for a day, it will warm up a few degrees, I don't care where you live unless you're all windows and no insulation, and no "stuff" in the building it just won't heat up that much. There's too much heat energy that has to transfer to all of the stuff in side to warm it up significantly. Buildings don't heat up anywhere near as fast as cars, why must you try and make all your points with some so ridiculous?

it would be fun to learn of all the dogs that died, with or without supervision and then pick apart the owners for things we would have done differently. It's so much fun to judge, especially based on 2 news articles with little detail. Imagine the fun we could have in here.
 

Danefied

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#95
and I don't think her reason was very good either. But it worked for her.
But no, actually it didn't. The dog died and she was the one who ended up in jail. Whether or not she deserved the conviction is another matter, but the fact of the matter is, she has been held criminally liable for a dog's death. This is a person who makes her living off of dogs, at the very least, I can't imagine a criminal record of animal abuse/neglect resulting in the death of a dog is good for business.

She had 5 at home and one that she kept at her work, seemingly because that one and her other akita did not get along. People find themselves in less than ideal situations with dogs all the time, and short of beating, strangling, starving, etc, i'm willing to give owners the benefit of the doubt to make something work for themselves.
I see the point you're trying to make, and its a valid one, sometimes you make things work however you can. But your statement implies a certain lack of choice in the matter. She didn't "find herself" having to attend a dog show, she CHOSE to go to a dog show, she planned to go, knowing full well that the Akita would be alone in the building for at least 24 hours.

I'm of the mind that you should not own more dogs than you can responsibly care for (and yes, "responsibly" is going to have different meanings for different folks).
 

AdrianneIsabel

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#96
Is it the time frame that is an issue? Is there a law in Florida that states how long an animal can be left without supervision? Does it specify what types of animals? Because I know for sure there are people with cats and livestock in Florida who leave them unattended for longer than 24 hours and don't get in trouble when one dies.
The legal issue is the dog was left without food and water and a proper place to eliminate itself. Most states have a law about food and water and shelter and or a place to eliminate itself.


Florida:
828.12. Cruelty to animals

(1) A person who unnecessarily overloads, overdrives, torments, deprives of necessary sustenance or shelter, or unnecessarily mutilates, or kills any animal, or causes the same to be done, or carries in or upon any vehicle, or otherwise, any animal in a cruel or inhumane manner, is guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or by a fine of not more than $5,000, or both.
828.13. Confinement of animals without sufficient food, water, or exercise; abandonment of animals

(1) As used in this section:

(a) "Abandon" means to forsake an animal entirely or to neglect or refuse to provide or perform the legal obligations for care and support of an animal by its owner.

(b) "Owner" includes any owner, custodian, or other person in charge of an animal.

(2) Whoever:

(a) Impounds or confines any animal in any place and fails to supply the animal during such confinement with a sufficient quantity of good and wholesome food and water,

(b) Keeps any animals in any enclosure without wholesome exercise and change of air, or

(c) Abandons to die any animal that is maimed, sick, infirm, or diseased,

is guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or by a fine of not more than $5,000, or by both imprisonment and a fine.

(3) Any person who is the owner or possessor, or has charge or custody, of any animal who abandons such animal to suffer injury or malnutrition or abandons any animal in a street, road, or public place without providing for the care, sustenance, protection, and shelter of such animal is guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or by a fine of not more than $5,000, or by both imprisonment and a fine.
Whether she intended to appear as such (neglectful) or not, that may be the stance the law is taking. I do agree, I believe this case may be unlawful (but not wrong) if the animal had not an autopsy. However, appearing from the legal statues the dog does not need to have died from the conditions, it merely needed to be placed in an area lacking "wholesome exercise, food, water, and change of air" (FL gets mighty stuffy in the summer without forced air).

I believe she is being made an example of and believe she should have every right and is doing the right thing by appealing it. I do not believe she was in the right though, she set her dog up for failure (and I don't care how many swear their dogs are safe when they do this) and above that she set herself up for failure. If you fast a dog, fast it when you're home. If you leave a dog, leave it with unlimited water such as an undumpable bucket, a toilet open, a something other than "four small bowls" according to the article. Leave word with the landlord that you'll be out of town but a dog will be in the shop while it appears closed and unoccupied, that way if the LL screws up you have a leg to stand on. No one wants to think about how to protect themselves as well as their dogs safety but if this case teaches people anything I think that should be a vital aspect.



a dog can go 30 minutes without water, it can go 24 hours as well if it's water dish tips over. A dog can go for 30 minutes in 80 degree temps and no be in any danger at all, just as it can easily lay around in a shaded store of those same temps for 24 hours with no danger to it. It can go 30 minutes without food the same as it can 24 hours, with a zero increase of relative danger to it. Extrapolate it out to 30 days and I think the outcomes change drastically. Sorry you can't see the difference.

I understand, yes, my dog is in the yard as we speak, he could in theory die right now (god forbid) but the likelihood of something happening and my inability to help is diminished because I make a choice to not leave my dogs alone for longer than 8 hours at a time and when they have those 8 hour stints they are inside my house with AC, fans, and when appropriate excessive water. I am also lucky I have a roommate who stays home for most of the day and that eases my nerves over the super hot days and wondering if AC may fail, etc. My point with this not perfect example is, yes, everyone takes time the have to leave their dogs (this case is about a fun choice btw) but most of the pet loving world make extreme efforts to try and not leave their dogs for more than 6-8 and rarely more than 12 hours without at least edging their bets and having someone check on their animals when they cannot be home within a longer time frame.

it would be fun to learn of all the dogs that died, with or without supervision and then pick apart the owners for things we would have done differently. It's so much fun to judge, especially based on 2 news articles with little detail. Imagine the fun we could have in here.
You have a strange perversion of fun, unfortunately I don't believe this is fun. I have said over, and over, again that it is a conflicting issue for me and I for one hate being conflicted but I do believe (court case aside) it is wrong to purposefully leave an animal in your care for over 24 hours without anyone checking in on them. It is neglectful and cruel.


ETA to fix quote boxes
 
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Picklepaige

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#97
I wonder, do fish count? When I was living in a dorm and coming home on the weekends, I would feed my betta Friday morning, and I wouldn't come back until Monday morning. I still go one day a week without feeding him, though I've had people tell me that I should go more.

So, he was alone for well over 24 hours every weekend. I'm just wondering if that is against the law or not??

Oh, and Dekka, sorry, I thought you meant if you leave a dog for 12 hours, period. My apologies.
 
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#98
You have a strange perversion of fun, unfortunately I don't believe this is fun
It isn't fun, just pointing out that quite a few like to take advantage of everyone else's misfortune to tell us all how they would do things, when i'm sure we could sit and pick apart everyone on here.

your name wouldn't happen to be Sheldon Cooper is it? :)

and since when is 80 stifling? 98 is hot, 80 is pretty much a common place. the meaningful exercise, pertains to crates, a pet food store probably has more than ample room to get up and move around. maybe it had access to an outside run, maybe not it doesn't say. air exchange? probably has to do with people using old chicken coops and garages to house dogs and breed them. A commercial building is not the same thing.

and it was April in FL, unless there was an abnormal heat wave at the time, which i'm assuming there wasn't or they'd have made reference to it, 80 for a high and low 60's for lows are not dangerous temps for a dog at all.
 

Giny

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#99
And this is the reason I responded on another thread as to why I would never want to be a dog. They depend on use for their survival and can't imagine what this dog went through before he died. Does it say through necropsy what was the cause of death?

True, he could have died a few minutes after being left alone, but leaving him alone for 24 hours, confined in a place where he couldn't get food or water (even if he did have water, you never know what could have happened to his water dish when not being check after 24 hours). Shoot, I feel guilty when one of the dogs water dish is empty and I keep 3 water bowls in the house just in case.

Sad situation.
 

AdrianneIsabel

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It isn't fun, just pointing out that quite a few like to take advantage of everyone else's misfortune to tell us all how they would do things, when i'm sure we could sit and pick apart everyone on here.

your name wouldn't happen to be Sheldon Cooper is it? :)

and since when is 80 stifling? 98 is hot, 80 is pretty much a common place. the meaningful exercise, pertains to crates, a pet food store probably has more than ample room to get up and move around. maybe it had access to an outside run, maybe not it doesn't say. air exchange? probably has to do with people using old chicken coops and garages to house dogs and breed them. A commercial building is not the same thing.

and it was April in FL, unless there was an abnormal heat wave at the time, which i'm assuming there wasn't or they'd have made reference to it, 80 for a high and low 60's for lows are not dangerous temps for a dog at all.
Unfortunately or fortunately, the law disagrees with you.

I really don't catch the Sheldon Cooper comment, sorry.

My place of business can get pretty stuffy without forced air running. Obviously hers did as well, per the "intense smell of urine and feces".

Frankly, my dog in this race was less the actual case at hand, but those who rush to the "No, no, it's cool I leave my dogs all the time for 24-48 (or more!) hours all alone and they're fine!" That, is what kills me, but hey... like I said, someone could strangle a dogs and people will still say "No, no, it's cool, I choke my dog out all the time and they always recover just fine!"

I think some people are so overly focused on the enjoyment and adrenaline being the devils advocate that they forget the issue at hand. These are domestic animals, reliant on our care, to do them less respect than they deserve imo is shameful. I know, very well, I could be a better owner in many ways, I don't pretend I'm perfect but leaving an animal in my care alone for an extended period of time to in theory fend for itself (good luck foofoo, try not to knock over your water or you're screwed) is beyond my realm of understanding.

I don't own fish but even fish can/maybe should have someone to swing by and peak in on the temperature, or power, if you value their life. Some, naw, I'm sure they're fine but I have a few clients who own fish that are vital to them and I don't think it's at all silly to make sure the power hasn't failed, the heater hasn't failed, and the PH hasn't changed drastically. Really, it's an average of $0-$20 dollars a day you're gone for a check in, are your companions really not worth that?

People do leave cats alone all the time, I personally don't think it's wise for longer than 24 hours, but I do believe there is a noted difference between dogs and cats and should be taken into consideration when setting up care plans for domestic animals.

Horses, again, could in theory, go without, but in my mindset why risk it? Horses, for as large as they are, can be very fragile animals and sadly can fail quickly. The first few hours of treatment in many cases are the most vital so if you can hedge your bets and have someone peek on them and ensure they're fine every few hours, why not?
 

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