Dog Breeding as a Profession
- Thread starter zaidoo
- Start date
Ok, now I have a question.
We got Marley from an extremly highly reputable boxer breeder in our city. Now they don't show their dogs anymore, they've been breeders for almost 35 years now. They have around 15 adult dogs, and in the spring, they have at least 2 puppy pools (children swimming pools with separate litters of puppies)
But they sell out of their home, its a nice, big out in the country home, and the dogs don't seem to be unhappy.Whenever someone mentions a BYB, it makes me wonder if Tanoaks is a BYB... but I can't tell.
Anyone ever heard of Tanoaks? They are known in our city. One can simply see a boxer, and just know that its a Tanoaks by its coat, and stance and overall appearance. They also have a screening process for owners, you get interviewed by them personally. You meet all their dogs, and they prefer that you play with each pup so that you find the right one for you. They call every couple of months to see how their puppy is doing and I just felt that they were wonderful people! (They refuse to have a website. Dieter - the owner, says that it minimizes the customer/dog chemistry.)
But again, they breed out of their homes, and they have a significant number of dogs. I always wonder if BYB just means someone who breeds out of their home. Is this the case? I don't think so, but I'm not sure.
We got Marley from an extremly highly reputable boxer breeder in our city. Now they don't show their dogs anymore, they've been breeders for almost 35 years now. They have around 15 adult dogs, and in the spring, they have at least 2 puppy pools (children swimming pools with separate litters of puppies)
But they sell out of their home, its a nice, big out in the country home, and the dogs don't seem to be unhappy.Whenever someone mentions a BYB, it makes me wonder if Tanoaks is a BYB... but I can't tell.
Anyone ever heard of Tanoaks? They are known in our city. One can simply see a boxer, and just know that its a Tanoaks by its coat, and stance and overall appearance. They also have a screening process for owners, you get interviewed by them personally. You meet all their dogs, and they prefer that you play with each pup so that you find the right one for you. They call every couple of months to see how their puppy is doing and I just felt that they were wonderful people! (They refuse to have a website. Dieter - the owner, says that it minimizes the customer/dog chemistry.)
But again, they breed out of their homes, and they have a significant number of dogs. I always wonder if BYB just means someone who breeds out of their home. Is this the case? I don't think so, but I'm not sure.
Selling dogs from your home doesnt make one a backyard breeder. It's actually preferred to kennel/yard raised pups due to lack of socialization. Basically, a BYB is in it for the wrong reason (1) money or (2) so the kids can see pups, the bitch can experience the miracle of life, etc. and (3) don't do any health testing nor prove their dogs temperament/abilities in any way.
I did a search and their name pops up alot, but I didn't find anything negative. They do have a lot of dogs though! I found this ad: http://www.dogsincanada.com/breeds/showcase/20281.html
I did a search and their name pops up alot, but I didn't find anything negative. They do have a lot of dogs though! I found this ad: http://www.dogsincanada.com/breeds/showcase/20281.html
From what I understand a lot of litters, is NOT a good thing.
Firstly, it's probably because they want money $$$$ The more puppies the more moola.
Secondly, it's very hard to give each puppy enough time, when you have 20 or 30 of them!
I've been looking at breeders for the past few months, and my trainer as well as a few people on chaz have told me, anymore than 3 or 4 litters a year...... is a no no. (1 or 2, is ideal)
Firstly, it's probably because they want money $$$$ The more puppies the more moola.
Secondly, it's very hard to give each puppy enough time, when you have 20 or 30 of them!
I've been looking at breeders for the past few months, and my trainer as well as a few people on chaz have told me, anymore than 3 or 4 litters a year...... is a no no. (1 or 2, is ideal)
Most people who REALLY love their dogs are scared to death to get into breeding because of all the heartbreak that it can bring.
I know I will probably end up breeding Alice when she finishes her championship and passes all her certifications, but the thought of it scares me to death. The sole reason I am breeding her is to obtain MY next show dog(s)...the thought of profit doesn't cross my mind.
If you love dogs, you will preserve and protect them, not try to profit off of them.
I know I will probably end up breeding Alice when she finishes her championship and passes all her certifications, but the thought of it scares me to death. The sole reason I am breeding her is to obtain MY next show dog(s)...the thought of profit doesn't cross my mind.
If you love dogs, you will preserve and protect them, not try to profit off of them.
I know where they are coming from .... I loved my Goldens and litters too . But that's A LOT of dogs !!! I could never have given my own dogs or my litters justice .... even though I always had more calls for pups than what I had. I never had 2 breed able ( in my mind ) females at one time. I never bred until after 2 yrs. with all tests and never more than every other year or so , so by the time one female was 7 , she was retired and another by then was over 2yrs. and tested. IF they have more than one person putting in at least 8 to 10 hrs a day , then fine . I figured a litter of 8 to 12 pups took me at LEAST.. 1 hours a day per pup , and 3 hours a day on top of that per litter. Add to that the Mom and the rest of the dogs...... doesn't leave much time for 8 weeks !!! Add to that the new owner's visitations when you HAVE to be watching every moment. !! Yes, maybe I was too cautious and concerned ,,,, but these were pups in my care and the welfare of all my dogs came first. Don't forget ... these were family , in house dogs .... not kenneled for reproduction purposes , you really need to know the breeders well and their purpose for breeding.
Here is my advice for you:
Do not breed until you have at least five or more years of experience in the breed of dog you wish to breed.
That will give you time to get your dog's championship, and possibly any certifications you want your dog to complete.
This will also let you get to know others involved in your breed, that can mentor you.
ANYONE INTERESTED IN BREEDING NEEDS A MENTOR WELL RESPECTED IN THEIR BREED.
If you try to shoot from the hip, you'll be classified as a back yard breeder who doesn't know what they're doing.
I suggest becoming a member of your local GSD breed club. That is a great way to become involved and get mentoring.
As for profit...honestly, that shouldn't even be on your mind. You should NEVER breed dogs soley for money.
Breeding for money will cause you to cut corners, possibly important ones, such as OFA and CERF testing.
Also, if you own the male, you should chip in some costs for the breeding female's care.
Truly, I hope you listen to all of this advice. I hope you take what you've heard here very seriously.
When you breed dogs, you are playing God with their genetics. Please remember that.
Do not breed until you have at least five or more years of experience in the breed of dog you wish to breed.
That will give you time to get your dog's championship, and possibly any certifications you want your dog to complete.
This will also let you get to know others involved in your breed, that can mentor you.
ANYONE INTERESTED IN BREEDING NEEDS A MENTOR WELL RESPECTED IN THEIR BREED.
If you try to shoot from the hip, you'll be classified as a back yard breeder who doesn't know what they're doing.
I suggest becoming a member of your local GSD breed club. That is a great way to become involved and get mentoring.
As for profit...honestly, that shouldn't even be on your mind. You should NEVER breed dogs soley for money.
Breeding for money will cause you to cut corners, possibly important ones, such as OFA and CERF testing.
Also, if you own the male, you should chip in some costs for the breeding female's care.
Truly, I hope you listen to all of this advice. I hope you take what you've heard here very seriously.
When you breed dogs, you are playing God with their genetics. Please remember that.
Cutting corners in any breed is risky business...but cutting corners in GSDs is playing with fire.
Depending on what lines of GSD you're talking about, the breed is in serious trouble. The LAST THING ON EARTH it needs is someone who's going to half-a$$ it as a way to make a few extra bucks. This is exactly what got GSDs into trouble in the first place. The only people that should be getting into breeding these wonderful animals are those that are willing to throw their heart, soul and paycheck (with no thought of return!!!) into it.
GSDs already have a bad rap with a lot of the general public- the last thing you want to do is PROVE to these people that their assumptions are right, by breeding animals that you don't have time for. Unsocialized dogs are a nightmare, unsocialized GSDs are more than that: they are risks for lawsuits just waiting to happen, or worse. These are big, powerful animals that can do alot of damage- so it is IMPERATIVE that pups are born from lines with rock-solid temperaments, and then socialized WELL.
This means HOURS UPON HOURS of work for EACH puppy. (And remember- time is money).
And the parents hips MUST MUST MUST be tested. This is NOT an option. Should you decide hip testing is too expensive- you effectively decide as well that you are a backyard breeder.
And you WON'T make money off of this. ESPECIALLY in this breed. Unless you show in conformation or work your dogs (in Schutzhund or herding etc.) you won't be taken seriously, and you shouldn't be. With so many people out there doing it right- why bother getting a dog from someone who cares only to do the bare minimum? You certainly won't get access to good breeding stock if you forgo working your dogs. So it's a necessity.
And campaigning GSDs is EXPENSIVE. It is well-known that this is a "handler breed" in AKC circles, which basically means that you will be more likely to win the lottery than you will be likely to finish your dog's championship owner-handled. (Unless that dog is REALLY spectacular). Your best bet is a pro handler...and they don't come cheap.
If you go the Schutzhund route we're STILL talking big bucks (and this is due to the HUGE amount of time you will spend training an animal in this sport). It's not really the kind of thing you "dabble" in. It IS the kind of thing that consumes your weekends, you weeknights, and eventually your life. But the people who do it LOVE that it consumes their lives. They could care less that they aren't making money- they love the sport, and they love their dogs.
If I remember correctly, you're the one who only has a few hours a day to spend with a single dog, right? In the most gentle way possible, can I suggest that breeding would be an absolute NIGHTMARE for you?
Breeding dogs IS a job....but it's one you DON'T get paid for. If you don't have HOURS AND HOURS of time to devote to tiny, helpless lives...it is NOT for you. Not only will the dam and puppies suffer, the BREED will.
Depending on what lines of GSD you're talking about, the breed is in serious trouble. The LAST THING ON EARTH it needs is someone who's going to half-a$$ it as a way to make a few extra bucks. This is exactly what got GSDs into trouble in the first place. The only people that should be getting into breeding these wonderful animals are those that are willing to throw their heart, soul and paycheck (with no thought of return!!!) into it.
GSDs already have a bad rap with a lot of the general public- the last thing you want to do is PROVE to these people that their assumptions are right, by breeding animals that you don't have time for. Unsocialized dogs are a nightmare, unsocialized GSDs are more than that: they are risks for lawsuits just waiting to happen, or worse. These are big, powerful animals that can do alot of damage- so it is IMPERATIVE that pups are born from lines with rock-solid temperaments, and then socialized WELL.
This means HOURS UPON HOURS of work for EACH puppy. (And remember- time is money).
And the parents hips MUST MUST MUST be tested. This is NOT an option. Should you decide hip testing is too expensive- you effectively decide as well that you are a backyard breeder.
And you WON'T make money off of this. ESPECIALLY in this breed. Unless you show in conformation or work your dogs (in Schutzhund or herding etc.) you won't be taken seriously, and you shouldn't be. With so many people out there doing it right- why bother getting a dog from someone who cares only to do the bare minimum? You certainly won't get access to good breeding stock if you forgo working your dogs. So it's a necessity.
And campaigning GSDs is EXPENSIVE. It is well-known that this is a "handler breed" in AKC circles, which basically means that you will be more likely to win the lottery than you will be likely to finish your dog's championship owner-handled. (Unless that dog is REALLY spectacular). Your best bet is a pro handler...and they don't come cheap.
If you go the Schutzhund route we're STILL talking big bucks (and this is due to the HUGE amount of time you will spend training an animal in this sport). It's not really the kind of thing you "dabble" in. It IS the kind of thing that consumes your weekends, you weeknights, and eventually your life. But the people who do it LOVE that it consumes their lives. They could care less that they aren't making money- they love the sport, and they love their dogs.
If I remember correctly, you're the one who only has a few hours a day to spend with a single dog, right? In the most gentle way possible, can I suggest that breeding would be an absolute NIGHTMARE for you?
Breeding dogs IS a job....but it's one you DON'T get paid for. If you don't have HOURS AND HOURS of time to devote to tiny, helpless lives...it is NOT for you. Not only will the dam and puppies suffer, the BREED will.
Like Tempura stated about campaigning. It is very expensive to campaign a dog. Were talking thousands of dollars.
I spent 5k on training alone last year. Not to mention all the competitions I entered, expenses to go to the competitions. Many times you are traveling many miles just to go to a competition. Sometimes you have to travel just to train. I have yet to break even in a year. Yes having litters does offset some of the costs but not all that much. My losses are at around 1300 on up.
I spent 5k on training alone last year. Not to mention all the competitions I entered, expenses to go to the competitions. Many times you are traveling many miles just to go to a competition. Sometimes you have to travel just to train. I have yet to break even in a year. Yes having litters does offset some of the costs but not all that much. My losses are at around 1300 on up.
Totally understand. Sometimes I think my heart is more on the rescue side than the breeding side. Regardless, if I breed, I will also aid in pug rescue at the same time. I think if you breed, you owe it to the dogs to rescue too. Nothing breaks my heart more than neglected, abused and abandoned pugs
I don't even show yet (with my mutts) and I've spent thousands on training in the past 6 months.
As tempura said, confirmation show is a hard thing to do well in. It's very political from the sounds of it, and even my trainer, who's been doing this for over a decade, hires a professional handler for confirmation. I've asked her about this, and it's apparently very common, even with experienced trainers. And as tempura said a well known handler is not cheap. And if you plan on finishing a dog, you need a good, reputable handler, that knows the judges inside and out. (my trainers handler, is actually related to a few of the judges in the CKC ring)
Overall, if your breeding and making money, you've either dedicated your life to competing and working with your pups or your a BYB.
As tempura said, confirmation show is a hard thing to do well in. It's very political from the sounds of it, and even my trainer, who's been doing this for over a decade, hires a professional handler for confirmation. I've asked her about this, and it's apparently very common, even with experienced trainers. And as tempura said a well known handler is not cheap. And if you plan on finishing a dog, you need a good, reputable handler, that knows the judges inside and out. (my trainers handler, is actually related to a few of the judges in the CKC ring)
Overall, if your breeding and making money, you've either dedicated your life to competing and working with your pups or your a BYB.
L
Breeding is not a profession that you can make money at. You health test the parents, title them, make sure they are healthy, buy the right kind of food, sonograms, x-rays (sometimes), post whelping shots, etc. You have to have a whelping pen, heat lamps (unless you keep your house around 70), puppy vaccines, dewormer, heartworm preventative, title the parents before breeding, provide excellent health guarantees, be improving upon the breed and not just "breeding for money". There are so many things that I don't think you've taken into consideration. A good breeder is lucky to break even when they are selling their puppies.
I didn't read the other replies, just thought I'd drop my .02 in the bucket.
I didn't read the other replies, just thought I'd drop my .02 in the bucket.
