Dobermans?

Discussion in 'The Dog Breeds' started by ravennr, Jan 4, 2012.

  1. ravennr

    ravennr ಥ⌣ಥ

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    we keep coming back to them more and more. they seem to fit us quite well and i am now at the point of negligent petfinder searches for Dobes in particular. i've spent some time around them, but i don't know the intricacies of Dobership. every Dobe person i know is so in love with the breed, too!

    what can you tell me about their overall personality, trainability, and let's say we don't rescue for some reason and go to a breeder, what specifically should i look out for? should i be worried about smaller pets? will i become addicted and if so is there help for that? anything else?
    i've seen a lot of hot debates on Chaz about this breed in particular.


    :popcorn:
     
  2. SizzleDog

    SizzleDog Lord Cynical

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    I had a post all written up, but it was disjointed and kind of random.... so I'll try again.

    To answer your specific questions:

    They're not velcro... they're tumors... they want to be touching their owners at all times. They will follow you from room to room, constantly pay attention to see where you're going to go next. When you sit down, you've got every Doberman you own instantly in your lap. (Mine even pile up on top of each other so they can all be as close to me as possible.)

    They're intuitive and empathetic, sometimes to a fault. Dobermans were created for personal protection, so their connection to their owner is quite strong. They are highly devoted to their owners, so if you sully that relationship by treating them too harshly.... you create a rift in that relationship that takes a lot of work to fix.

    The girls are more serious, whereas the boys seem to be more sensitive and sweet... but not in a gentle way! The Doberman has been said to possess "the heart and soul of a gentleman" - even as puppies. Doberman puppies are crazy and fun, but they are also wise and respectful beyond measure. I've never seen such innate respect and understanding from any other dog I've encountered.


    They're very smart and learn quickly if you train them right, but they are not a breed that is very forgiving of training error. If they feel as if they're being treated unfairly, they will not work for you.... I've seen several breeds that cannot seem be overcorrected... Dobermans are not one of them.

    If you train too harshly, a Doberman won't be afraid of your or get mad at you - the Doberman will simply say, "well F**k you then" and won't work with you. On the flip side, if you're too soft with a Doberman they'll realize they can outsmart you... and then you have a problem. They read emotions well, so you have to be confident and kind... faking it won't fool a Doberman.

    Dobes are versatile dogs - they'll try their best at everything you throw at them... except maybe swimming!


    HEALTH TESTING! Health testing health testing health testing. With a scant few exceptions, you want to be seeing fully health tested parents - hips, elbows, thyroid, vwd and a recent holter are my personal bare minimum. Throw in CERF, bile acid and the WSU cardio gene test and I'm a happy camper.

    In my opinion, the #1 thing you need to worry about is health testing. Everything else comes second.

    As for titles... it depends on what you want to do with your dog. Contrary to popular belief, Dobermans from "show" breeders can and do train/title successfully in protection sports. Your standard North American show-bred Doberman is where you'd probably want to go if you want an extremely versatile companion.... especially if you want to do Agility. Most Agility dobermans you see are bitches, and most are from show breeders.

    Do not confuse "European" with "working", and always remember that a Doberman is supposed to be a medium-sized and moderate breed - they're not supposed to look like mastiff crosses - that's all I'll say on that. ;)

    You should be vigilant and train the dog to leave small pets alone, but I won't say that having Dobermans and cats is impossible. ;) Dobes do have a healthy dose of prey drive, some more than others, so if you get a puppy you need to keep on them about leaving smaller pets alone. Adults, it's best to get one that has been tested on small animals.

    If they're the type of breed that meshes with your personality, yes - you'll become hopelessly addicted and there is no cure. Nor should there be. ;)


    A few parting thoughts...

    1. If you get a dog in North America from a responsible breeder, it'll be cropped and docked unless there's a one-in-a-milion fluke. Get used to the idea. (1:1,000,000 Fluke = my breeder has a puppy right now that can't be cropped due to an ear injury - so he'll stay natural.)

    2. If you want to excel in Agility, get a bitch. Not saying the boys don't do well, but to be truly competitive IMO you need a bitch. There's a reason why most of the top Agility dobes (and every T20 Agility winner in the past decade) are girls. ;)

    3. Dog aggression. Expect it in males, no matter how much you try to train it out. If you have multiple males (irregardless of age, neuter status and breed) expect to crate 'n' rotate. Same sex DA is less common in bitches, but when it does happen it's 100x worse than the boys.

    4. Dobermans are expensive.... breeders charge $2000-$3000.

    5. I'm sure someone will mention the longevity program. Keep in mind that just because a breeder's dogs aren't on the list, that doesn't mean their dogs aren't long-lived. There's politics in everything.... hint hint.

    Oh, and because this thread is useless without a photo or two....

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  3. ravennr

    ravennr ಥ⌣ಥ

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    yes! thank you!

    i went through your photos since i've been gone, today with the boyfriend, and he is drooling over your girls (though he has expressed he wants a boy). he is also in love with Revy haha. i told him no Corgi right now :p

    i used to be very iffy on cropping, not just the idea but i think the taping, for whatever reason, very much intimidated me. i'm much better with the idea of it now. i love the look and i'm confident i can take care of any ears in recovery :p

    we have gone back and forth on where we would want to get a dog from. if i could show, i would really love to do it. i imagine it would be best to own the breed before investing that sort of time into it, though? i've never gotten the chance to show before and it is a little intimidating. mostly though we are just looking for an all-around companion. maybe i could try my hand at some sort of dog sport though!

    are there any skin issues associated with any of the colour variants? i'm partial to black-and-tans myself but i've seen some gorgeous blues and fawns up for adoption that got me a tad bit hooked.

    i will definitely be paying very close attention to health testing with any breeders we may look at.

    thanks so much!
     
  4. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    Sizzle, do you have a few of your dogs sitting? They're beautiful and I love the breed. I actually, very seriously, think about them often. The overly deep chest bothers me with the way it juts out when they sit.

    I train with a lot of them from winmar kennels.

    They're great dogs and the most intradog affectionate dogs I've ever met. With their housemates they make out, constantly, it's adorable.

    The rock back sit kills me from my obedience views.

    They have a very interesting drive, imo, they have a lot of it and great sustainability but it's a quiet, calm, not spastic drive.

    That's about all I have right now having not owned one.
     
  5. SizzleDog

    SizzleDog Lord Cynical

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    Greyhounds were used in the development of the breed - they have the deep chest for lung capacity, so it's not entirely incorrect. However, chests have become overdone (IMO) and the crazy-huge ones bother me too.

    Here's what I found of my own dogs...

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    (Haha I see a trend.... Jayne doesn't sit much!)


    Honestly, I think the dogs do it more than the bitches. Kaylee doesn't rock back, but she's a pretty stellar obedience dog if I do say so myself. I think with most issues with Dobermans, it's all in how they're trained and what they're allowed to get away with while learning their fundamentals.

    Yep! It's a hard drive to explain, isn't it? It's not bad, but it's different than what people are used to when they think "tons of drive."

    PS... You totally should have gotten in on Kaylee's litter if you wanted an obedience dobe. She loves it... even when she has to wear a thong. ;)

    [​IMG]

    (I need to get good obedience photos of her, I really do.)
     
  6. ravennr

    ravennr ಥ⌣ಥ

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    i am a sucker for their necks. i love a good collar on a Dobe's neck, for some reason.
    i'm sure that's where my money will go to.
     
  7. SarahHound

    SarahHound New Member

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    I'd love a Dobermann, but they seem like they would be a bit out of my control compared to what I am used to. Still, beautiful dogs.
     
  8. Hillside

    Hillside Original Twin

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    Not if you got a Saga. All she does is sleep. I joke that she is an oversized cat. :rofl1: Most Dobes do have a pretty good off switch, Saga's is so good that I can't find the ON switch.
     
  9. SarahHound

    SarahHound New Member

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    Maybe in the future, some seem a bit similar to greyhounds in someways (like having an off switch!). I would worry about the training though, they seem like the type of dog that would be quite easy for me to go 'wrong' with.
     
  10. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    Sizzle, your dogs are definitely not bad. The dobes at my work are beautiful standing but I would like a less exaggerated chest.

    On the left is the most over done but several others are similar.
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  11. Zoom

    Zoom Twin 2.0

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    Holy crap, I'd swear the dog on the left had a tumor or something. o_O

    There's a weim at work right now who has outstanding conformation--if he was a Dobe. It's the strangest thing to watch him--the cognitive dissonance about kills me. I like a deep chest on that type of dog, but not to the point that it looks like the prow of a submarine.
     
  12. SarahHound

    SarahHound New Member

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    Wow, I have never seen anything like that! Is it quite normal to see?
     
  13. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    Yeah, I feel guilty posting that because he is a really nice dog and a nice owner but I just don't like the way most of the dobes at my work have that chest. It's true though, the boys are worse than the girls.
     
  14. Toller_08

    Toller_08 Active Member

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    I don't really have anything to add to this thread since Leah already said everything I would have... but in a much more condensed way! I had a huge long jumbled story written out. But I do have some photos of my dogs sitting for you. I agree that some Dobermans have way too large and overdone chests. I don't like it either. I wish I had a picture of a dog that I knew with a huge chest. She was pretty when standing, but when she sat she had a chest that looked like it belonged to another dog.

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    Here is one of both from the front:

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    Keira:

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    Well, I thought I had more photos of them sitting than that. Looks like they're all mostly from the front, though. But as you can see, neither one is overdone (IMO). Keira's kind of a chest-less wonder. She hardly has any at all, though she's so fine boned and petite as it is, she'd probably look goofy with more chest. I like Ripley's though. I don't think I'd want him to have a chest any bigger than it is. The first picture is kind of deceiving in that I think he looks more moderate than how it appears in that one. I wish I had more side angles of both that would show a better example.
     
  15. JennSLK

    JennSLK F150 and a .30-06

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    OP: I see you are from Ontario. There are alot of good breeders there. Alot of bad ones as well. You can also look into the states that are close to you for breeders as well. It is VERY VERY easy to get a dog between Canada and the US. It is also to reg the puppy with the CKC if it is already AKC reg. Google the Doberman Pinscher Club Of Canada for info and breeders, as well as the Doberman Pinscher Club Of America. You can search by state/province and the US site has so much info on it.

    I would avoid anyone who sells warlock or over sized dogs. They are BYB at best. Avoid Von Luxus in Ontario. They talk a good game, but do not sell quality dogs or give you support after the purchase.

    Beware of politics. A good breeder should not bad mouth another breeder. Now, if they are clearly a mill, byb or do not health test it is a different story. There are a few breeders here in AB I would not buy a dog from, but I respect them. Their dogs are simply not my type but I have and will continue to refer people to them.

    Sizzle covered basically everything. She is very knowledgeable in the breed.
     
  16. Zoom

    Zoom Twin 2.0

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    FWIW: I love Jayne and Ripley's chesticles.
     
  17. ravennr

    ravennr ಥ⌣ಥ

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    that one red, that's the most exaggerated chest i've seen on a dog period, wow.
    is this something that some breeders actually breed for? i've never seen it before!

    i have heard of the warlocks in the past and how it's best to stay clear of them. i will keep my eye open for any that appear to be the same thing for sure. and i'll give some looks into close breeders in the states as well. if it were soon, i couldn't go myself to pick it up or visit, which would bum me out a bit (i'm still working on my residency and as of right now, i can't leave and re-enter, but if i find a good breeder i'm willing to wait).

    Keira is another Chaz Dobe that i have fallen in love with. i love her frame!

    perhaps i should go and grab some breed-specific books! :)
    i've been looking through the breeders and rescues in Ontario and saving a lot of them. it'd be neat if i got a chance to meet a few of them.


    thanks guys, this is helping a lot! we're both giving multiple thumbs up over here :p
     
  18. Aleron

    Aleron New Member

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    I had a very Dobe like Dobe mix and really like the breed. IME with them, the boys tend to be rather dorky and yeah, most of the good obedience/performance ones I've seen were girls. It's too bad the breed has such a short life expectancy and such widespread healthy issues though :(

    IME It's not all that uncommon to see show Dobes with really exaggerated chests. Course, you usually see them standing:

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    Historical photos of Dobes show a much more shallow chested dog than even the moderate Dobes one sees today. It is the same with GSDs and has always made me wonder if those earlier dogs were as prone to bloat as our modern dogs are.

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  19. ravennr

    ravennr ಥ⌣ಥ

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    those old photos are great. thanks for posting them. i have been on a "this is what breeds used to look like" kick for a little while.
     
  20. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    How are Dobe hips and knees? They often have some really extreme angles.

    I liked the breed a lot but have been hooked since the flick Hugo and our friend Candice at splash dogs, her rescue dobes are AMAZING jumpers and can fly even though I heard most dobies are water-resistant . I need to talk myself out of them before they become my next dog.


    I also don't know if I could tape my dogs ears for as long as it takes but I do enjoy the cropped look. Is it really as traumatic as people say? I know a lot of people who gave up because it was annoying/upsetting the dog and the owner got soft so now they have cropped floppy ears.
     

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