Do you want a kid/kids?

[sparks19]

While I completely respect ones right or want for someone to NOT want kids, and find it a totally valid life choice, I feel really sad that the below is the view of what it is like to be a mom



"me" time can be a bit hard when they are young, but only because they really need a lot of time them. As they get older, that lessens dramatically. I am still the woman I always was, and in many ways better

OMG this 1000x over. Why am I supposedly some shell of my former self? I am a stay at home mom and yes most of my time is spent being MOM but does that make me less of a woman? NO it does not. I am me just the same. Beyond working hours, if I wanted to go out and do my thing I know my husband is more than willing to give me that time or I could get the girl
Across the street to babysit. I just choose not to because there is not much I would rather do than hang at home with a good show/movie and maybe a drink or two lol.

 

[Zoom]

While I completely respect ones right or want for someone to NOT want kids, and find it a totally valid life choice, I feel really sad that the below is the view of what it is like to be a mom



"me" time can be a bit hard when they are young, but only because they really need a lot of time them. As they get older, that lessens dramatically. I am still the woman I always was, and in many ways better

Years of reading Facebook posts, mommy blogs (because I have a morbid curiosity) and talking to countless women in the ordering room when I was a Passion Parties consultant have helped me to form that opinion. Everyone always prefaces--or tries to redact their statements--with "But I totally love them and wouldn't change for the world", but I don't even think they were aware of the resentment leaking out of their words. Maybe it balances out and to be fair a lot of these women sounded like they had dipsh*ts for husbands anyway, but still...what a massive risk to take. How do you come to terms with realizing you were wrong and you really do suck as a parent? It's not like with dogs, where you can honestly find a home that works better for them and be able to still hold your head up in public.

Those of you who have wonderful children, like Hannah (who seems to be the world's easiest kid), I'm sure it's a lot easier to tell everyone that they're missing out on something amazing and wonderful.

Those who have had the Children from Hell, I'm sure it's quite different. After my middle brother was born and the 3 years of incessant screaming, my parents were *terrified* when they found out my youngest brother was coming, because they couldn't take another round like that.

This sums up a lot of my (and others) feelings (caution for language):
Foamy the Squirrel

 

[Fran101]

Years of reading Facebook posts, mommy blogs (because I have a morbid curiosity) and talking to countless women in the ordering room when I was a Passion Parties consultant have helped me to form that opinion. Everyone always prefaces--or tries to redact their statements--with "But I totally love them and wouldn't change for the world", but I don't even think they were aware of the resentment leaking out of their words. Maybe it balances out and to be fair a lot of these women sounded like they had dipsh*ts for husbands anyway, but still...what a massive risk to take. How do you come to terms with realizing you were wrong and you really do suck as a parent? It's not like with dogs, where you can honestly find a home that works better for them and be able to still hold your head up in public.

Those of you who have wonderful children, like Hannah (who seems to be the world's easiest kid), I'm sure it's a lot easier to tell everyone that they're missing out on something amazing and wonderful.

Those who have had the Children from Hell, I'm sure it's quite different. After my middle brother was born and the 3 years of incessant screaming, my parents were *terrified* when they found out my youngest brother was coming, because they couldn't take another round like that.

This sums up a lot of my (and others) feelings (caution for language):
Foamy the Squirrel

That video is perfection :rofl1:

 

[sparks19]

Fair enough. I don't want to
Mislead. Hannah really is the easiest child... I swear I am not BSing. Even my family (or most of them) can't believe that I had such an easy going kid and B) that I am actually a good mother lol. NO ONE expected I could handle a kid of my own. I never likes kids... The only kid I ever took to was my one neice who hannah reminds me a lot of at this age.

I am also blessed with a spouse that does a lot to help besides his paying job.

It is probably TMI but we also have an above par sex life lol besides a great marriage. Our daily life is mostly about counting thw hours until he is done work and we can all be together for a few hours. So I suppose it should all be taken with a grain of salt but I guess it all comes down to the right person.

Its late and I have had a few drinks lol so forgive me

 

[Samantha's pet]

Uh, yeah, I've struggled enough with feeling meaningless, I really don't need Somethig else that also has the benefit of being a massive income drain to reinforce that.

I'm sorry I'd like to retain my self identity and not become subsumed in being "MOM". It's going to be hard enough becoming a wife and losing my name as is.

When you have a kid, every single thing you do is now judged through the lens of "But you have a kid!" and that seems like the worst kind of prison possible. That comic strip "Rose" makes me so sad sometimes, when the mom only rarely gets to be the badass she is on the inside, because everyone else just sees her as a mother--frumpy, endlessly self-sacrificng...why the f*ck is it such a sin for a woman to want to retain some autonomy, to take "me time"?

THAT'S a huge reason why I don't want children.

I really don't care whether other people have kids or not. Heck, I hope lots of people don't have kids or only have one cause I worry about overpopulation (lots of things give me anxiety, lol) but I don't like the implication that you HAVE to fade into the background and lose your identity. I still have a full life and do the things I love. I sew, I cook, I do yoga, workout, travel, host parties, hang out with friends and family, AND do lots of fun mom things with my kid. She has only added to my life, not taken away from it. Sure, it involves more responsibility and planning. Can't up and do certain things on a whim and I could see not wanting to give up that spontaneity but I resolved to be the type of parent who live my life as close as I could to the way I always did and take her along for the ride as opposed to a different person who holes up in the house til the kid is grown and rarely leaves our city (like my friend). Of course it takes more effort than it did before but I find that my kid is better for it. She gets so many different experiences and she is exposed to things that my friend's kids will never see. Anyway, I am saying I decided what kind of person/parent I was going to be. She didn't make me into a different/less interesting person. I refused to become that way.

That said I certainly don't want anymore and I feel that way for the same reasons most people don't want any. I just refuse to become like my friend who has to plan every second of every day of her life and will not leave her house alone with her kids. Which means they are all stuck in the house from 8-5:30 every day when her husband is at work. It's also harder to get a sitter for more than one child, etc. I love having one but I don't like what my life will probably become with any more than that.

 

[Greenmagick]

I had a very hard baby, and neither one is at all easy. I am by nature a pretty selfish, impatient person and do need a LOT of me time. Still make a **** good mom though

The thing you have to remember, people are more likely to talk about and remember the bad vs the good. Just like if you hang out in the health section of big dog forums, it would seem dogs are by nature very sick. Well, no, you just dont post or talk about that. Like with children, you may post about the nights when you are up every hour, or where they are tantruming all day...more than likely you are NOT posting about all the nights you do get sleep, or the wonderful days and moments.

Look, I am not trying to convince anyone to have kids, but I have seen some very warped views of what motherhood actually is like, and that saddens me. I would not want anyone to make a decision about having kids based on things that really just arent the case.

For the women who really are miserable, I would be almost anything its not the kids, its them...and I dont mean that in a bad way but that they are not being true to themselves.

 

[Zoom]

Fair enough. I don't want to
Mislead. Hannah really is the easiest child... I swear I am not BSing. Even my family (or most of them) can't believe that I had such an easy going kid and B) that I am actually a good mother lol. NO ONE expected I could handle a kid of my own. I never likes kids... The only kid I ever took to was my one neice who hannah reminds me a lot of at this age.

I am also blessed with a spouse that does a lot to help besides his paying job.

It is probably TMI but we also have an above par sex life lol besides a great marriage. Our daily life is mostly about counting thw hours until he is done work and we can all be together for a few hours. So I suppose it should all be taken with a grain of salt but I guess it all comes down to the right person.

Its late and I have had a few drinks lol so forgive me

And that's quite enviable.

Forgive me if I seem to be ranting here, but this conversation just came up IRL recently and I got pretty p*ssed off because it seemed like all of my objections and reasons were just brushed aside with "Oh, you'll change your mind when it's your own."

Um...thanks for the utter invalidation of my thoughts there. It's not like I'll be the one carrying the kid in question to term or anything, so I can totally see why you think any opinions I might have about what would happen to my body/life/mental stability wouldn't matter.

 

[Beanie]

I don't think becoming a mom (or a wife for that matter) somehow takes away from who you are. I do think it becomes a part of you, but so do the jobs most of us do outside of work. The first time we meet new people, one of the first "getting to know you" questions we ask is "so what do you do for a living?"

That said, there are plenty of terrible parents in this world who completely disprove the theory that having children just somehow changes people and makes them all better. I just read an article this morning about a mother with two girls (11 and I think 7) and a son (8?). She got re-married and started drugging all three kids with meth and forcing them all to be involved with threesomes with her and their new stepfather. While I realize this is an extremely abusive situation and I don't think anybody here would do this, stories like that are depressingly common, and it's just as common to walk through Target or the grocery store or even Toys R Us and see or hear someone who maybe shouldn't be raising kids... or at the very least probably needs to take anger management classes. My heart breaks for some of those kids when I hear the things their mother/father says to them.
So having kids doesn't just make everybody a better person. I don't doubt for many people it truly is THE best thing in their lives to be a parent.
But that doesn't mean it's that way for everyone.

I don't think it really has anything to do with good child versus bad child either... mostly because I believe a LOT of that has to do with how kids are raised...

Also there are quite a few people who didn't give ANY reason as to why they don't want kids, so to say anybody who doesn't want kids is being selfish is unfair when you haven't heard every individual argument. For those who have posted, some people are probably oversimplifying. I doubt many people really go "Well, I could have kids. But OH SNAP. Then what about my trip to Hawaii?!" and that's the end of it. Sure, there probably are people who just being really selfish, but they are probably also being realistic... "I'm just really selfish and I would be a horrible parent because of that." I dunno, I can't find much wrong with that if somebody's just being blunt and honest about it.
I don't think many people are talking about how great they are - I have seen several posts where people are humble enough to know their own failings and to acknowledge that their failings would fail a child if they had one, and being mature enough to not want to inflict their failings as a human being on a child. So it's the opposite... they aren't great, therefore they aren't going to, uh, pass on a legacy of not being great.

I do think a lot of childfree people are needlessly harsh to parents. I was reading a community a while ago and kept seeing babies referred to as "parasites." WOW... talk about harsh and insulting. But I also kind of understand why - I think people have started to push back and lash out, because for so many years they've been insulted and told they are stupid and selfish and this and that. I think it's pretty sad that people can't just co-exist without being insulting to another person's decision about their life. And this isn't just "do you buy Ford or Chevy," "do you prefer Mexican or Chinese," this is a decision that can potentially affect a CHILD... a little life that can't fend for itself for a long time and needs to be loved and nurtured. DESERVES to be loved and nurtured.
It's not a decision to be made lightly, and not a decision anybody else should make for someone else.

 

[Fran101]

All I can say is this....

Having a child changes EVERYTHING. The biggest lesson of all? You (yourself) is meaningless. I really weep at how many good people donn't want kids for such selfish reasons. Stop looking inside. Having Hannah made me a better man. It will make you a better person.

I look at you people who the first answer is about how it will "effect you 'plans'" and I LOL. The first step at real freedom? Have something bigger than yourself.
Since Hannah was born, my life has been better than ever. If only one could put something above themself.
Stop looking at how having a child effects YOU, look at how having a child effects OUR future.


We have had at this before. People who have a work ethic (I.E. produce tax $$$) need to pass it on. SOMEBODY needs to pay for all of this stuff.

Umm.. I beg your pardon?.. selfish?

Selfish because I want to live in the kind of world where I would want to raise a child in before I pop one out?

Selfish because I like myself and my life as it is?

Selfish because I want to live my life and enjoy it and be sure I want to child and am ready emotionally to deal with one and not just take out my resentment for my lost life on it? (and please don't tell me it doesn't happen. I've seen it. I've felt it. and it sucks)

Selfish because I fear the risks of pregnancy and child-birth?

Selfish because I don't want to run the risk of having a child and being a bad parent?

Selfish because I think I can contribute more to this world than popping out the next generation?

Sure, maybe Hannah did make you a better person. That does not apply to everyone.

Take note of the entitled, stressed, over-worked, rude, pod people/crazy folk running around having nervous breakdowns or beating their kids to a pulp or dumping their kids at daycare/boarding school/with nannies 24 hours a day or even foster care because they simply cannot handle the stress or time or commitment for children
Take note of pod parents whose lives revolve around their children and who isolate themselves to the point of obsession and mental distress.
Take note of parents who have kids to please parents or society or to feel like they've done something with their lives (and what a laughable concept that is)

Did it make them better?
How do you think the kids feel about their parents having them to make themselves better people? or to change their lives? or just because?

Having a child so you can feel like a better person, because you want a lifestyle change or just so you can wear your superhero outfit and claim you are saving the world because you pro-created or because you think your DNA is that special that you need to pass it on MAKES ME WEEP.

I have plenty of things and plans bigger than myself.

I'm going to change the world for the better one day.
Who knows? Maybe I'll write a novel that inspires, maybe I'll find the cure for something, maybe I'll just be kind to everyone that I meet and inspire kindness in others, maybe I'll travel and give and help those who need it, who knows.

having a child is NOT a way to have plans bigger than yourself or to be a better person. Sure, sometimes it does work out that way..but it doesn't always and it sure as hell doesn't mean people that don't want one are selfish any more than it means that all parents are selfless good people.. HA!

Me not wanting to pop out a child is not about me being a selfish person.
It's about me not wanting one.

You want to be meaningless, that's just fine.
I don't.
I want my life to have meaning, to have purpose, I want to make the world better and kinder and cleaner and happier.. my life isn't meaningless. I'm not meaningless.
I CAN CHANGE and CREATE CHANGE. I don't need a child to hand it off to, I can keep myself and be part of it now.

My uterus is not my self worth and wether I want a child or not does not define how I see myself or how good of a person I am.

I plan on being the best person I can be.

and I think it's SELFISH to think that having a child will somehow make you better.
Having something doesn't make you anything.

Being a good person makes you better.
Being a kind person makes you better.
Being a smart person makes you better.
Being a compassionate person makes you better.
Being a passionate person makes you better.

BEING BEING BEING
Not having.
Not having a baby or a dog or a prius or a spaceshuttle.

Being a good parent does light the spark sometimes that leads to people being more compassionate, patient, kind.. but it sure as HELL doesn't do it all the time.

Having a child for any reason except wanting a child and wanting to be a parent.. is selfish.

 

[JessLough]

I really don't care whether other people have kids or not. Heck, I hope lots of people don't have kids or only have one cause I worry about overpopulation (lots of things give me anxiety, lol) but I don't like the implication that you HAVE to fade into the background and lose your identity. I still have a full life and do the things I love. I sew, I cook, I do yoga, workout, travel, host parties, hang out with friends and family, AND do lots of fun mom things with my kid. She has only added to my life, not taken away from it. Sure, it involves more responsibility and planning. Can't up and do certain things on a whim and I could see not wanting to give up that spontaneity but I resolved to be the type of parent who live my life as close as I could to the way I always did and take her along for the ride as opposed to a different person who holes up in the house til the kid is grown and rarely leaves our city (like my friend). Of course it takes more effort than it did before but I find that my kid is better for it. She gets so many different experiences and she is exposed to things that my friend's kids will never see. Anyway, I am saying I decided what kind of person/parent I was going to be. She didn't make me into a different/less interesting person. I refused to become that way.

This. IMO this is *so* important. Friend of mine has 2 kids, she still does EVERYTHING she used to do, she just takes the kid with her from day 1. Her older child is now nearly 2 (at the end of the month) and is just happy and a go with the flow type of kid. It's because she just brought her everywhere, and didn't be overprotective -- the child can now be left with anybody and is fine with it.

People are always so adament about puppy socialization, but think for some reason it's fine to just keep your child away from the world and expect it to grow up well-rounded

ETA: And the same goes for people without kids who tend to think kids shouldn't be in public until they are perfect angels. How exactly should they learn how to act, if they are never allowed in public? Would you expect your dog to know how to play with a dog, if they are never allowed to be near another dog?

Sorry if I offend people by comparing a kid to a dog, I figured it's the way most chazzers will understand LOL

For the women who really are miserable, I would be almost anything its not the kids, its them...and I dont mean that in a bad way but that they are not being true to themselves.

I agree it's not the specific child, but it's the situation. They wouldn't be in the situation without having the child. It's a big circle

 

[Greenmagick]

This. IMO this is *so* important. Friend of mine has 2 kids, she still does EVERYTHING she used to do, she just takes the kid with her from day 1. Her older child is now nearly 2 (at the end of the month) and is just happy and a go with the flow type of kid. It's because she just brought her everywhere, and didn't be overprotective -- the child can now be left with anybody and is fine with it.

People are always so adament about puppy socialization, but think for some reason it's fine to just keep your child away from the world and expect it to grow up well-rounded

ETA: And the same goes for people without kids who tend to think kids shouldn't be in public until they are perfect angels. How exactly should they learn how to act, if they are never allowed in public? Would you expect your dog to know how to play with a dog, if they are never allowed to be near another dog?

Sorry if I offend people by comparing a kid to a dog, I figured it's the way most chazzers will understand LOL



I agree it's not the specific child, but it's the situation. They wouldn't be in the situation without having the child. It's a big circle

I compare my kids to dogs all the time Its true to an extent, about socialization children, but again, like dogs, nature is still there regardless of nurture. My plan with my dd was to be a go go go mom, doing all kind of things, walks, hikes, museums. Well, that didnt work. She screamed whenever something new happened, new person enter the room, new diaper, in the car, out of the car, etc. She was really really hard. Strangers freaked her totally out. So my plans changed, thats life. Now though, at
6 (and this started earlier) she is so outgoing, so easy going, etc.

And with the women being miserable...I meant more that its not about them being moms, more often its probably them just being miserable about themselves. If it wasnt about being mom, it would be about their job, or their relationship, or etc. Some people are just negative and blame evreyone around them for it.

 

[Zoom]

My plan with my dd was to be a go go go mom, doing all kind of things, walks, hikes, museums. Well, that didnt work. She screamed whenever something new happened, new person enter the room, new diaper, in the car, out of the car, etc. She was really really hard. Strangers freaked her totally out.

This was my brother. Change of any sort just threw him for a wicked loop. Toss in two working parents on top of that and life apparently was pretty d*mn miserable.

I do agree socialization plays a huge role in both children and dogs and that's why I searched and searched very carefully for my dogs, to stack the deck in my favor as much as possible that I would have a stable, go-anywhere dog.

If I could somehow stack the deck like that with children, maybe I wouldn't be quite so adamantly against a huge part of parenthood. However, given OH's reclusive tendencies and my own bipolar-esque quirks, any hypothetical spawn are potentially f*cked from the start.

And with the women being miserable...I meant more that its not about them being moms, more often its probably them just being miserable about themselves. If it wasnt about being mom, it would be about their job, or their relationship, or etc. Some people are just negative and blame evreyone around them for it.

Sleep deprivation is a pretty key factor to being miserable, too. J/K

I would, however, hazard a guess that those women were also the ones I was hearing the most out of in the ordering room. Their lives, their wants, their needs were going unheard and unmet, because their husbands, their children and the people around them saw them as MOTHER and WIFE and forgot about PERSON. Obviously it's not a universal constant, but it is out there.

I still don't see why I need to procreate to prove I'm not selfish. I give a lot in a ton of other areas and enjoy being able to shower whenever I want, I don't see how that's a mutually exclusive arrangement.

 

[Red.Apricot]

Thank you so much, Fran--your post was lovely.

I am sort of 'lucky' in that when I say I don't want kids, I can hide behind the disease I have (autosomal dominant; 50% chance of passing it on to each kid), but I shouldn't have to. I do think it's wonderful that good people have children. I sort of hope my sister has kids eventually, because I'd make a great aunt.

But I do think people can contribute more to the world than just their children.

 

[Paige]

Whenever this conversation comes up I cringe. It is always the same. A parent says something non child wanting people find offensive so non child wanting people come back with some very harsh words.

I do not resent my son. I do not speak of him like he is the child from hell even on bad days. I love spending all my time with him. I don't want to leave him for a minute because I enjoy him so much. I may be just a boring person to someone else but to me this is exactly where I want to be. Holding my son while he is little, talking about diapers and milestones with like minded people. I don't care if you don't want kids. I will never say a rude thing towards someone who doesn't. I will not even ask you why. I just will accept it upon hearing it because you know yourself better than I do... but that doesn't mean I resent my son because you've listened to people vent. I'm sure EVERY single one of us has vented, gone home and hugged our dog at the end of the day. Kids are no different.

 

[Dizzy]

I just tend to find older or old people without kids looking mostly..... empty. Not always unhappy, just unfulfilled.

As you age, friends disappear, people move on, have kids, and they're just left. Their spouse/partner/friends die and then....

That being said I don't give a monkeys if people don't procreate. There's a lot of people i wish wouldn't.

 

[shazbot]

I can understand why people get offended when they are called selfish for not wanting children. OMG, how can you NOT want kids? It's gotten to the point where I laugh when some one calls me selfish or anything else for not wanting kids. My aunt even went off on me when I told her I didn't want kids, something about denying my body the miracle of birth. Sorry but I think being pregnant is gross, I cringe at the thought of it. I also know that most people who do judg me have no idea what my life is like and and have no say in it, so who are they to tell me that I'm selfish. I enjoy the life that I have and won't change that, if that makes me selfish in peoples eyes then so be it. Some people are cut out to be parents others aren't.

 

[Whisper]

Great post, Fran.

I really weep at how many good people donn't want kids for such selfish reasons.

I really weep at how many neglected, unwanted kids there are because their parents had kids for reasons like, "It's the thing to do," etc.
Hannah is a great kid. She has great parents. I've seen pics of vids of you with her, and if I had half of the love from my father that you give to Hannah, I would have probably grown up a very different person.
Some people really want kids, some people don't. Some people are fantastic parents, some suck and should have been speutered before being allowed to procreate. I don't think there's a wrong answer when it comes to wanting to have kids. Sometimes knowing yourself, knowing you wouldn't be a good parent, and choosing not to have children because of that is the selfless thing to do.

 

[Tortilla]

I feel like it would be selfish of me to HAVE a kid when I don't really want one just to get a sense of 'fulfillment.'

 

[SarahHound]

After this thread, I had the WEIRDEST dream last night. My sister had a baby (she is 17 and not planning any at the moment in real life!), and she was packing her stuff to go away to University in September. She was only packing stuff for herself, and I was saying to her, where's the baby's stuff going to go. She said, Oh, I thought I'd leave him here, because there's no space for his clothes as well.

So she left me, with the baby, and a book called 'How to look after babies cheaply'. :yikes:

So I decided I was going to make the nappies, as they are expensive to buy, but in the book, it said to make them out of fuzzy felt (for anyone who doesn't know, fuzzy felt is a kids game/craft thing - https://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=...urce=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=ZPaDT5L3JIWs0QWCntS3Bw) and basically, no good for a nappy! So it kept getting wet, and I had to keep making more felt nappies.

And then I woke up Thank god!

 

[SarahHound]

All I can say is this....

Having a child changes EVERYTHING. The biggest lesson of all? You (yourself) is meaningless. I really weep at how many good people donn't want kids for such selfish reasons. Stop looking inside. Having Hannah made me a better man. It will make you a better person.

I look at you people who the first answer is about how it will "effect you 'plans'" and I LOL. The first step at real freedom? Have something bigger than yourself.
Since Hannah was born, my life has been better than ever. If only one could put something above themself.
Stop looking at how having a child effects YOU, look at how having a child effects OUR future.


We have had at this before. People who have a work ethic (I.E. produce tax $$$) need to pass it on. SOMEBODY needs to pay for all of this stuff.

Don't weep for me, I am selfish and happy that way

Seriously, I have no patience for kids, and I'd end up being one of those mothers on the news who has smothered her kid because it wouldn't stop crying. Better if I just don't have one really.