Do I have reason?

Discussion in 'The Breeding Ground' started by currywoodcollies, Sep 11, 2009.

  1. currywoodcollies

    currywoodcollies New Member

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    My collies had their first litter of puppies on Valentine's day of 2008. I had a lady email me way before I even bred them wanting a male collie. She told me he was going to be used as a seizure alert dog and MAY be bred for seizure alert dogs. Well, he is now just a stud and nothing more. Everytime I see him (in person or in pics) he looks scared to death. I found a thread about this woman on Complaintsboard.com. I have never been to this woman's home, but according to this board, it is disgusting. I have recently learned that she never lets her puppies or maltese outside. They are able to use the bathroom in the house. She keeps puppy pads everywhere and the puppies and dogs are hit and miss. I had a very long discussion/argument with her about how she should not breed her dog every heat. I hope she is not going to. Her collie just had puppies in April and she is in heat now. I have been looking her up online and she has apparantly used many different names and has many different kennel names as well. I do not think I have enough evidence that she is harming my dog, but I really want to take him back. This lady has mental problems and does suffer from seizures. She is 36 and lives with her mother. I should truly be angry with her mother.. and I guess I am. I looked for 2 years for my collies. I made sure I picked two that were healthy, beautiful, and had great temperaments. They also have good pedigrees and come from very reputable breeders. I feel horrible that I sold this dog to her and now she is undoing all of the hard work that those breeders and I did in choosing a good pair of collies. Her female is very far from breed standard and is not what you would call a "healthy" collie. She did not have this female when I sold my collie to her. What can I do to get my collie back? Do I have grounds to do so?
     
  2. CaliTerp07

    CaliTerp07 New Member

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    What kind of a contract did you make the woman sign? That piece of paper is what's going to give you any ground to stand on.
     
  3. Fran101

    Fran101 Resident fainting goat

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    When you sold her the collie,did you make her sign a contract?
    did you contract say that you could take the dog back if its being mistreated?

    call her animal control in her local area, have them take a look at the house. if they take her animals away, show them the contract that SHOULD say "if you cant keep the dog, the dog returns to ME the breeder".

    if you didn't have a contract, then im sorry but you are SOL


    you could try to, talk to her, deal with her, buy the dog back if you have to.
     
  4. release the hounds

    release the hounds Active Member

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    probably nothing, next time be more careful


    Next time you'll know that anybody that knows anything about service dogs will not be searching for a puppy in which to breed more service dogs. As soon as I heard that the woman would have been scratched off any potential list of every getting a dog from me.
     
  5. Fran101

    Fran101 Resident fainting goat

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    you beat me to it lol
     
  6. Fran101

    Fran101 Resident fainting goat

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    Oh I misunderstood. i thought she said that the woman wanted a puppy to train to be HER service dog.
    why would you sell to someone that plans to breed your dog, service dogs or not?

    I have a heart condition, and Im getting a puppy, i would LOVE if this pup had the potential to get her CGC and be my service dog so that when I faint, she can learn what to do. but im not counting on it.
    you can't tell if a puppy is going to be good enough to be a service dog... it takes a very special dog.
     
  7. sammgirl

    sammgirl ACoops favorite

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    You probably do have a reason, but I don't know what you could do about it. Unfortunately, possession is 9/10 of the law, and that woman possesses the dog.

    What you could do is call animal control in her area and put in an anonymous complaint.

    Other then that, you're probably stuck. Those breeder's contracts rarely stand up in court, unfortunately.
     
  8. sammgirl

    sammgirl ACoops favorite

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    I thought better of posting what I actually think on this one, so I deleted it in favor of keeping my mouth shut. :rofl1:
     
  9. currywoodcollies

    currywoodcollies New Member

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    I do have a contract with her and it states
    Buyer agrees that at NO time will this puppy be re-sold or given to a puppy mill, dog pound, broker, or any similar compound. If at any time the buyer needs to find a new home for the puppy/dog, the breeder MUST be notified for possible placement assistance or return of the puppy to the breeder at buyers cost.

    Buyer agrees that this puppy is to become a member of the family and is to be treated with love, care, and respect. Buyer must give all health care and attention to the puppy necessary to become a valued family member. This includes food, socialization, and medical care normally incurred with a puppy.

    Buyer agrees to notify seller if there is emergency medical care needed for the puppy that the buyer cannot financially afford for any medical treatment not covered by this guarantee. This is so the seller can assist the buyer in finding options to help cover needed care costs in buyers local area. The buyer agrees to return the puppy to the seller (at buyers cost) with no refund if the buyer feels he/she cannot afford to give the puppy the proper care.

    The woman was looking for a collie to be her service dog and she said her mother may want to breed in the future for another service dog when this one was older.
     
  10. Miakoda

    Miakoda New Member

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    Yep.

    All you can do is chalk it up to a lesson learned and be a helluva lot more careful to whom you sell puppies to.
     
  11. Miakoda

    Miakoda New Member

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    I know many people who use such contracts and according to my friend (and attorney), they will rarely ever hold up in a court of law. For those that do, those contracts were notarized and a lot more specific and some serious violations involving the health and wellbeing of the dog were in question.
     
  12. Fran101

    Fran101 Resident fainting goat

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    well.. although that contract SOUNDS all well and good. but it doesn't give you the right to take the dog back. especially the part about "love, care and respect" that isn't going to hold up in court.

    I think you need to call animal control anonymously, tell them about what you have seen/heard and ask them to check it out and if your lucky, THEY will confiscate the dog and you can go from there.

    that should've been a BIG red flag on your part. it sounds like you didn't even really get to know these people at all. your a BREEDER and if you really have the best interest of the breed and your dogs in mind, theres no WAY you should've sold your dog to someone who planned on breeding it, service dog or NOT.
    an EASY fix would've been to sell this dog neutered, and agree that when this dog is older, they can return to you and get another dog/puppy from YOU. but honestly, i wouldnt have given a dog to these people at all.

    anybody that knows anything about service dogs knows that it isn't just any dog/puppy. it takes something special and its rare. if any pup could be a service dog, all the service dog training centers wouldn't put the effort in time into CHOOSING puppies, something like 1/4 even make the cut!


    I hope you do get this dog back. but honestly, as long as the dog has FOOD, WATER and SHELTER. your chances of ever seeing this dog again, IMO are slim.
     
  13. Zoom

    Zoom Twin 2.0

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    You might be able to force your contract, as those conditions sound highly unsanitary, but it's probably going to be a long, tough legal battle, especially as she keeps throwing around the term "service dog" to everyone she meets. That's going to make you seem like the bad guy, even if you aren't.

    I would, at least, file an anonymous complaint with the Animal Control person in that area on the conditions of the house.
     
  14. currywoodcollies

    currywoodcollies New Member

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    I haven't sold a puppy since with breeding rights and I have a full list of questions to ask potential buyers. It was my fist litter and I definitely made a huge mistake. I did talk to people who have sold her other dogs to her and to people who have bought from her. I did not hear anything negative until these last few months. I thought I did the right thing by contacting other breeders who knew of her before I sold a pup to her.. looks like everyone was wrong about her.
     
  15. currywoodcollies

    currywoodcollies New Member

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    I do not think I am going to have any luck getting animal control in on this. I live in Northern Louisiana... enough said. So, I guess I just have to live with it.
     
  16. Fran101

    Fran101 Resident fainting goat

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    ok im going to take a deep breath and say this as nicely as I possibly can.

    YOU gave that dog to those people. IMO you owe it to that dog to atleast TRY. talk to the woman, visit her, talk to her about proper care, offer to help. or even just try to buy the dog back

    I think there are a couple of things that you need to do.

    1. start health testing your dogs

    2. do SOMETHING with them (herd, obedience , show, etc..)

    3. start SCREENING puppy buyers MUCH more thoroughly. this means REFERENCES, PHONE CALLS, EMAILS, GOOGLE THEM, and if they have other pets.. VET REFERENCES!

    4. Talk to the your local breed club. get in touch with some GOOD breeders and LEARN
     
  17. MafiaPrincess

    MafiaPrincess Obvious trollsare Obvious

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    Monetary damages are enforceable for breaking a contract. No matter how well worded, usually trying to force the return of a dog for a broken contract is not.

    Lot of people trade contracts on showdogs-L. Some have had lawyers look over and reword their contracts. Most these days only mention the return of the dog if the owner can't keep it,.. and have high enough, but not ridiculous damages to hope that the buyer will think twice about violating the contract.

    Short of AC doing something for terrible living conditions.. ad you may not receive the dog back even then.. I doubt you can get the dog back even through legal channels.
     
  18. currywoodcollies

    currywoodcollies New Member

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    I knew I would get judged by this and I don't mind it and yes, I need the criticism. I made a mistake 1 1/2 years ago and I have learned from it. I am going to try to contact animal control. I said I do not think I will have any luck. If not, then what can I do about it? They have had the dog for 1 1/2 years. I did look into her. I even visited her veterinarian. He was the one that tested the puppies' eyes. The vet told me they are never late on their vaccines and they do put their dogs through seizure alert dog training if that is what they intend to do with the dog. This dog was put through training and did well, but he was never housebroken or socialized so he does not do well indoors (in retail environments). I have had my dogs health tested. Both are normal eyed and have good hips. Neither have red mange in their pedigrees. I am not someone who just threw two dogs together. They are my dogs and they go and do everything with me. They are not just breeding dogs.
    I have mentioned buying the dog back and they won't have it. I have not brought up the contract because I was waiting on evidence. I found the complaint board today. So a lot of this is new info to me. She sends me pics regularly and emails me when he gets back form the vet everytime. My main concern is the environment he is in and with the mother (she is the one I have bad blood with). My other concern is the quality dog she is breeding him with, but there really is nothing I can do about that. I have never been to her home and have never been invited. I am going to talk them into inviting me to let me "visit" the dog. If the home and the dog are in bad conditions then I will bring up the contract. Hopefully some poeple on here are right and that will scare them into giving him back.

    As I said before, I have learned from this and I have started screening potential buyers. I have not had any problems out of anyone else.
     
  19. sammgirl

    sammgirl ACoops favorite

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    Hi Currywood,

    I looked at your website and it doesn't look like you health test. If you do, you don't post links to the results.

    If you do health test, you should proudly post the results. I would in your place.


    It also doesn't look like you title your dogs, so I'm not sure how you can be so sure that your puppies will grow up to be therapy dogs if their parents weren't therapy dogs.

    Not that collies aren't fantastic pets, they are. But it does take a special kind of dog to be a therapy dog. One in a million.

    This is just my opinion on what you have posted and what has been opened up and called into question by this thread. As I've said before, my opinions aren't gospel and just because I feel strongly doesn't mean I'm right.
     
  20. dobesgalore

    dobesgalore New Member

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    It sounds like you did the right things, just not enough. That was your first litter, lesson learned. I would change the wording of my contract, including that you will take the dog back if you suspect mistreatment, unsaitary conditions etc... And no, contracts don't always hold up in court. You have to have LOTS of phisical evidence to back you up. More than just because you feel its a bad situation. But I think you will have to swallow this as a lesson, and improve from here.
     

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