Do blindly trust doctors?

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#61
Sure, there is SOME merit in western medicine, but it's overrun with greed and avarice and many of the chemicals it employs are downright toxic, and the attitude about those chemicals is "the more the merrier." Health is not a priority. Healthy people aren't profitable.

Listen to a doctor rant about signing his terminal patient up for hospice care because "once these damned hospice people get hold of my patients I don't make any more money." Heard and witnessed.

My little Angie would likely be alive today if not for a doctor who didn't want to pass her on to the specialist she needed because her husband's railroad insurance paid well. Dead, with her daughter just four years old and her husband bereft without his soulmate.

I won't even go into my personal experiences . . .

And then we have people like DrMom who are shut out of practicing, people with ethics and compassion. People who are open minded and whose egos -- and bank accounts -- don't dictate their practices.
 

CaliTerp07

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#62
I didn't go to med school, so I hardly think I have a right to argue with a doctor. Ask questions? Of course! Ask if doing abc would work instead of xyz? Sure. But to refuse what they want to prescribe for me? No way, Jose.

Maybe I'm ridiculously lucky that I've never had an incident with doctors. Sure, sometimes they're gruff or rushed, but I'm inclined to believe that these horror stories of doctors are truly in the minority. It's like any service--negative reviews are shared on average with 6 people, positive ones with 2.

Like Lilavati said...when a doctor decides to tell me I don't know how to code software or navigate the world of investments, I'll tell them that I know more than they do about medicine.

ETA: Also, being a doctor isn't nearly as lucrative as one might think it is. A family friend is an OBGYN. His head-and-tail insurance is so high that his wife had to go back to work so they could afford their mortgage on their house. He makes good money, but the majority of it goes to paying insurance (and of course in the first years, med school loans)
 

sillysally

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#63
Sure, there is SOME merit in western medicine, but it's overrun with greed and avarice and many of the chemicals it employs are downright toxic, and the attitude about those chemicals is "the more the merrier." Health is not a priority. Healthy people aren't profitable.
Really?

Hmm....I wonder why I have had several doctors advise me about health issues like losing weight that will make me healthier, without me even bringing it up? I mean, if they make more money with me having higher blood pressure and being unhealthy, then I wonder why they would even bring it up. It seems strange that they would give me guidelines on healthier food choices and nutrition info. I know, they must be getting kickbacks from veggie growers!
 

sillysally

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#64
This is one of the things I don't understand. Why do people in the West seem to have such a romanticized notion of Asian health/medicine?

My mother is from one of those tiny, isolated Asian villages that depended on the romanticized eastern medicine. My great-grandfather was the village healer, specializing in herbals and traditional medicine. He was their day-to-day doctor, and did everything from treat arthritis to deliver babies.

Let me tell you what it was really like. Firsthand account, as heard from my mother who actually lived it every day. Overall, people were very healthy. They ate a very healthy diet, and worked hard and long in the fields. They caught very few viruses, mostly due to the isolation of the village from the rest of the world. And as all doctors will tell you, physical fitness and diet are 90 percent of your health nowdays. So everything was mostly pretty good.

Here's the downside. If you got appendicitis...you DIED. There was no surgery. If you couldn't deliver your baby naturally...you DIED. No C-section. If you got an infection, you had better be able to kick it on your own. No antibiotics unless they took you to a major city.

My mother had an ear infection when she was 8 years old. A very minor ailment by Western medical standards. But the traditional medicine didn't work. Candling, herbs...none of it. They had no antibiotics available. The infection grew in severity until she was in agonizing pain, and almost delirious with high fever. She was very sick for a long time. Fortunately her body beat the infection, but her hearing in that ear was beyond saving. She's almost completely deaf in that ear, and has a hole in her eardrum to this day.

Everyone in my mother's village, although healthy, had dental problems. They were losing their teeth by their 40s and 50s. All my mom's brothers and sisters had dental problems too, and it required extensive treatment as they aged. You know why? There was no flouride treatments. No regular dental cleanings. No flouride in their drinking water, either. And their teeth suffered.

My mom said they actually depended heavily on a team of Western doctors who came to their village twice annually to vaccinate the new babies, deworm the children (eww) and see to ailments that the traditional medicine simply couldn't help.

If traditional medicines are so good, why did people die with appalling frequency from ailments that are peanuts to treat nowdays? And in isolated areas of the world, you can still die from what are now considered minor problems. The elimination of polio....end of smallpox....antibiotics....ALL credited to Western medicine.

I know there are people who put their faith in traditional medicines. Not me.
Yep.

I would be dead of appendicitis if it were not for modern medicine. Actually, I probably would have been born brain dead or mentally handy capped if it were not for the C-section my mom had due to the fact that I was breech.
 

smkie

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#66
All mine does it give you more information then you can wrap your mind around for boosting the immune system. Betting this will get to be a real trend REAL soon. I am a guina pig that is paying for the privledge. I should be getting paid as a test subject. IT gets bad enough you will do whatever they tell you to do because to not is to be die a death you do not want to experience.
 
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#67
I didn't go to med school, so I hardly think I have a right to argue with a doctor. Ask questions? Of course! Ask if doing abc would work instead of xyz? Sure. But to refuse what they want to prescribe for me? No way, Jose.
As long as I am paying them, they are working for me and I have every right to question -- and discard -- anything I choose. If I hadn't figured that out when I was still very young, I'd be living the life of a cripple today.

As a whole, we're way too eager to let someone else tell us what to do.
 

CaliTerp07

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#68
As long as I am paying them, they are working for me and I have every right to question -- and discard -- anything I choose. If I hadn't figured that out when I was still very young, I'd be living the life of a cripple today.

As a whole, we're way too eager to let someone else tell us what to do.
I guess I phrased that wrong. I have a right, of course. But I don't think it's wise. I'm not going to pretend that reading internet articles and message boards and people's one-off experiences is better than going to 4 years of intensive med school
 

grab01

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#69
I guess it depends what sort of research one does. I've previously worked in a medical field where I had to study medications and their effects/side effects. So I feel pretty confident in my ability to judge what is and isn't a risk I'd take. I take very few meds...I didn't take pain meds when I had my appendix out, I worked to find triggers for my migraines so I could avoid them rather than use meds (largely successful..have one now and again, but I'm greatly able to avoid them) and so on. I don't get flu shots. There are many more ways to educate onesself on medical things than the internet, and I've utilized those enough to be comfortable enough to judge some of my medical care.

That doesn't mean I'd go internet searching and diagnose myself, but I do feel comfortable knowing what, if anything, I'm going to ingest into my body
 

bubbatd

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#70
my grandfather was a Homeopathic Doctor so I guess I was brought up in the best of 2 worlds .
 

Romy

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#71
Okinawa seems to have the highest percentage of centenarians. As a culture, they eat a TON of veggies, a ton whole grains and lots of fruit. Veggies, fruits and grains make up something like 70% of their diet. They don't eat anywhere near the amount of animal fat that we do here. In addition to the types of food they eat, they also eat a lot fewer calories and fats than people in Europe and North America. Exercise is also a big deal over there, as is spirituality (something that is known to improve health).

As far as health care goes, they incorporate BOTH eastern and western medicine. I'm not saying that there is no value in eastern medicine, but when many of those who practice it also traditionally have diet and exercise habits that we know equal better health it's hard to point to that practice as the only reason the people there are living so long. It's a combination of things.

I think it is always a good idea to have an open mind when it comes to health care. However, alternative medicine in the US is a very "buyer beware" situation. You have alternative health practitioners that are good people and good at what they do, but you also have a good deal of them who disreputable, greedy, and taking advantage of people.

People can do what they wish, but personally I don't automatically put more faith in a practitioner of alternative medicine just because they are not a western doctor. I am just as suspicious with either, and it seems that a frightening number of people will blindly trust alternative practitioners.
There is a village in central america (can't remember the name) which has a very high proportion of centenarians as well. They do have a similar eating style to the Okinawans. They also works into their 90s and hundreds every day. Not super intense labor, just getting up early and tending animals and vegetable fields kinds of activities.

I never said that western medicine is a bunch of crackpots and ineffective for treating disease. The opposite:

I acknowledged that western medicine reduces infant/child mortality rates with simple treatments that traditional medicine does not have.

And my cousin whose intestines burst was saved by a western doctor who took the risk to his patient survival score and operated anyway. No eastern doctor could have fixed what was wrong with him using herbs. Now, maybe it could have been prevented using alternative treatments, maybe not, but he was saved using western medicine.

And if I ever had a compound fracture in my arm, I'd be going to the emergency room of a hospital to have it fixed.

All of our horrible experiences I have had with DOCTORS makes me distrust DOCTORS, which was the topic of this thread. Not whether eastern medicine is better than western. The malpractice that many of my family members has been subject to has led to us looking at alternative treatments for the resulting chronic conditions. If we had been correctly diagnosed to begin with, we probably could have received timely treatment and not needed to make legal threats and throw tantrums in order to keep from having family members die. If DOCTORS had used readily available diagnostic equipment (X-rays) instead of sending me out of their office with a broken hip, spine, and later on neck, I would probably not being having the chronic problems I struggle with now. When my mom's ovary twisted, the surgeon said that if another 20 minutes had gone by without surgery she might not have made it.

My chiropractor is my cousin, and he and his associates do not charge me so I know that they do not have money as a motivation for what they do.

My chinese doctor, and I had to search a long time before finding one that was trained in the best way to help me with my chronic problems, is a great guy. He actually had identical hip and back fractures to mine when he was 3 years old and so that has given him a lot of insight into how to rehabilitate me after my injuries, more so than other alternative practitioners and western doctors. Not all branches of eastern medicine are the same, and different approaches are more effective for different issues, and different people's bodies.

The main issue I have with western medicine is that our mainstream medical system is set up in such a way as to be focused around money. Drug companies, insurance companies, etc. all have high motivations for making money, and promoting certain treatments over others not because they are better or more effective, but for money. Naturopathy definitely has it's share of scammers among their ranks, but you have to be aware of that every where you go. I have found that alternative practitioners are generally more interested in serving me, and helping me get well, which is the job they are getting paid to do. And in order to become certified they also spend upwards of a decade taking intense medical classes, the good ones traveling far and wide, sometimes internationally to attend training seminars and courses to stay up to date with current research and techniques.

Right now I am on a waiting list for an integrated medicine practitioner. They are regular western MDs who also use naturopathy, nutrition, eastern medicine, etc. taking the best of each and using what is most effective in diagnosing and treating the individual patients. That, IMO, is ideal.

I am glad we live in a country where we have so many health care options available however, as everyone has different things that work for them and that they are comfortable with.
 

Romy

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#72
Maybe I'm ridiculously lucky that I've never had an incident with doctors. Sure, sometimes they're gruff or rushed, but I'm inclined to believe that these horror stories of doctors are truly in the minority. It's like any service--negative reviews are shared on average with 6 people, positive ones with 2.
Maybe you are ridiculously lucky.
FDA: drug interactions

In Tucson I was fortunate enough to work as a nanny for a couple who were a physician and a pharmacist. They insisted on checking every single medication prescribed to make sure it wasn't going to hurt Aurelia while I was pregnant.

And my regular doctor had prescribed me two different drugs that were known to cause birth defects. I took them back and showed her the printouts my boss gave me, she was like: "Whoops, sorry about that. Here you go." :mad:
 

sillysally

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#73
There is a village in central america (can't remember the name) which has a very high proportion of centenarians as well. They do have a similar eating style to the Okinawans. They also works into their 90s and hundreds every day. Not super intense labor, just getting up early and tending animals and vegetable fields kinds of activities.

I never said that western medicine is a bunch of crackpots and ineffective for treating disease. The opposite:

I acknowledged that western medicine reduces infant/child mortality rates with simple treatments that traditional medicine does not have.

And my cousin whose intestines burst was saved by a western doctor who took the risk to his patient survival score and operated anyway. No eastern doctor could have fixed what was wrong with him using herbs. Now, maybe it could have been prevented using alternative treatments, maybe not, but he was saved using western medicine.

And if I ever had a compound fracture in my arm, I'd be going to the emergency room of a hospital to have it fixed.

All of our horrible experiences I have had with DOCTORS makes me distrust DOCTORS, which was the topic of this thread. Not whether eastern medicine is better than western. The malpractice that many of my family members has been subject to has led to us looking at alternative treatments for the resulting chronic conditions. If we had been correctly diagnosed to begin with, we probably could have received timely treatment and not needed to make legal threats and throw tantrums in order to keep from having family members die. If DOCTORS had used readily available diagnostic equipment (X-rays) instead of sending me out of their office with a broken hip, spine, and later on neck, I would probably not being having the chronic problems I struggle with now. When my mom's ovary twisted, the surgeon said that if another 20 minutes had gone by without surgery she might not have made it.

My chiropractor is my cousin, and he and his associates do not charge me so I know that they do not have money as a motivation for what they do.

My chinese doctor, and I had to search a long time before finding one that was trained in the best way to help me with my chronic problems, is a great guy. He actually had identical hip and back fractures to mine when he was 3 years old and so that has given him a lot of insight into how to rehabilitate me after my injuries, more so than other alternative practitioners and western doctors. Not all branches of eastern medicine are the same, and different approaches are more effective for different issues, and different people's bodies.

The main issue I have with western medicine is that our mainstream medical system is set up in such a way as to be focused around money. Drug companies, insurance companies, etc. all have high motivations for making money, and promoting certain treatments over others not because they are better or more effective, but for money. Naturopathy definitely has it's share of scammers among their ranks, but you have to be aware of that every where you go. I have found that alternative practitioners are generally more interested in serving me, and helping me get well, which is the job they are getting paid to do. And in order to become certified they also spend upwards of a decade taking intense medical classes, the good ones traveling far and wide, sometimes internationally to attend training seminars and courses to stay up to date with current research and techniques.

Right now I am on a waiting list for an integrated medicine practitioner. They are regular western MDs who also use naturopathy, nutrition, eastern medicine, etc. taking the best of each and using what is most effective in diagnosing and treating the individual patients. That, IMO, is ideal.

I am glad we live in a country where we have so many health care options available however, as everyone has different things that work for them and that they are comfortable with.
My uncle is an orthodontist and everyone in my family got free work done--doesn't mean he doesn't charge his other patients-lol.

My intention was not to pick on eastern medicine, but rather to point out that alternative medicine in general has grown in popularity of late and whenever that is the case, people must be very careful when choosing alternative medicine and practitioners. The complementary and alternative medicine is a $39 billion dollar industry and supplementation market is worth something like 1.9 billion dollars. In addition, the industry is hardly highly regulated. You don't think that the potential for greed, abuse, questionable practitioners/practices is there?

For example, many people seem to assume that things like supplements are "natural" and therefore somehow do no harm. St. John 's Wart was brought to the forefront as a "natural" way to combat mood issues. Too bad it interferes with birth control and if you happen to be bi-polar it can actually make you worse by triggering your symptoms...

I have no issue with alternative medicine in general. I go to a chiropractor and have used one for a horse of mine. My dog is fed supplements for his elbow dysplasia daily and sees a massage/swim therapist. I am open to things like acupuncture for him in the future. However, in doing research on alternative therapies for my animals, I learned to have my BS detector out and know what the risks vs potential rewards are with each thing I try.
 

Saje

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#74
Maybe you are ridiculously lucky.
FDA: drug interactions

In Tucson I was fortunate enough to work as a nanny for a couple who were a physician and a pharmacist. They insisted on checking every single medication prescribed to make sure it wasn't going to hurt Aurelia while I was pregnant.

And my regular doctor had prescribed me two different drugs that were known to cause birth defects. I took them back and showed her the printouts my boss gave me, she was like: "Whoops, sorry about that. Here you go." :mad:
Does your pharmacist not double check them for you? Whenever I pick up a prescription I make the pharmacist double check on any interactions or if it gets into breast milk. That's after reminding the doctor about any concerns/issues I have. And I certainly wouldn't stay with a doctor that had made such a mistake. :(
 

pitbullpony

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#75
First; the cleft palate clinic -- in Ontario we are lucky to have the services of "cleft and cleft related symptoms" as a clinic; in fact the child is attended by a team until the age of 22.

Avi has a minor cleft - uvula and a bit of her soft palate; it was a few different clinics attended at different ages; up to 1 year; then her palate was repaired and ear tubes put in due to excessive fluid that could have lead to ear infections. She currently has only one tube in (both ears check out fine), palate repaired and is in speech therapy - delayed due to the inability to speak properly and most likely hear until she was 1 year of age. This was all done (except the surgery which was overnight) as outpatient clinic settings.

Let's see; why I don't do doctors.

Diet and exercise are my main proponents; for the family, pets and myself. Good genetics help a lot; again family, pets and myself. Natural medicines as opposed to the allopathic medicines; again I do not trust the FDA and unfortunately Canada blindly (for the most part) follows along with what the FDA approves.

Here is my most recent read;
Corrupt to the Core” paints a disturbing picture of the internal machinations of a government regulator bent on pleasing its drug company ‘clients’, often with scant concern for the public health implications.

Dr. Shiv Chopra is one of three Health Canada scientists whose testimony before a Senate Committee in 1998 triggered headlines around the world. The scientists testified that Health Canada managers had pressured them to release suspect veterinary drugs into the food chain without the evidence of safety required by the Food and Drugs Act.
One of my favourite websites; WHALE

There is a lot of evidence to suggest that many of the dis-eases that we could suffer from; disappeared long before vaccines even became commonly used.
Antibiotics have been overused; and there are other options.
Painkillers are overused; without the underlying cause being addressed.

My old doctor was a pill doctor - here try this; it's new; just got the samples today; yadayadayada.

There is a doctor in our town who prescribes oxy in 150 pill count; atrocious. Ends up being sold on the street.

My 65 (at the time) father had to have a circumcision due to phimosis; because the doctor had no clue how to catheterize a man with a foreskin. His current doctor had my father on 3 different medications; 2 for high blood pressure and another to counter the effects of the high blood pressure. My dad is currently in the hospital awaiting treatment for complications due to the interactions of the prescribed medicines.

I agree you can't be stupid about your health; but choosing to not go the allopathic route is not stupid; just a different mentality. I believe in striving to be as healthy as possible with the least intervention; not the most.

I used to remember attending parties with friends; whose children were the same age; and the entire evening would be spent with them detailing the neverending appointments of their children; ear infections, cough, strep throat, etc, etc; I could never join in; my kids were never sick enough to attend a doctor or emergency room. It used to make me chuckle however because every story would end with; but he's such a healthy child; twisted idea of healthy.
 

puppydog

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#76
Do I trust my doctors? Hell yes. I no longer go to my GP, not because he is a bad doctor, but because he was rude to me and I don't need that crap. I will find someone else to write me my scripts for my Zoloft.
My OBGYN. Of course I trust him. He is an amazing doctor and will deliver my babies and tend to my gyn care for as long as I need it. I would not go to a doctor I did not trust.

As for post delivery care of my baby, they must do whatever they need to do for it. It is very unlikely your baby will latch right away anyway, you also need to be stitched up, tended to, the baby need to be weighed and cared for. You will probably only be able to nurse about half an hour after the birth. Don't try and plan too much, you are only setting yourself up for dissapointment.
 
T

tessa_s212

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#77
Don't try and plan too much, you are only setting yourself up for dissapointment.
Being dissapointed in how majority of hospital births are handled now-a-days is inevitable, no matter how much or little planning I do, now that I'm educated and have done so much reading. I expect that no matter what, I will be dissapointed in some way with my child's birth. Even if I do achieve a natural birth, I'll be dissapointed with fighting off the nurses and doctor that push drugs on me and unnecessary things for my baby. I'm looking at this quite realistically - I can and will plan on my birth going the way I wish for it to, however I don't expect for one moment that any nurse or doctor will like my decisions. If somehow a miracle happens and I'm treated respectfully, no complications, and I acheive the natural birth I want, GREAT! But I already know I'm going to have to fight like he|| for it.
 

CaliTerp07

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#78
Why are you so adamant that the whole process is going to be awful and filled with disappointment? It sounds to me like you've read too many horror stories online...I know my friends and family who had babies recently had no major issues or complaints--they just didn't feel a need to go online and write on every message board and blog how wonderful it was the way those who had bad experiences did.
 

Romy

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#79
Does your pharmacist not double check them for you? Whenever I pick up a prescription I make the pharmacist double check on any interactions or if it gets into breast milk. That's after reminding the doctor about any concerns/issues I have. And I certainly wouldn't stay with a doctor that had made such a mistake. :(
She gave me a big pile of free samples, so no phamacist was involved in the transaction. I am really glad my boss insisted on checking.
 

Saje

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#80
I'm sure in all your research you've read What to Expect When Expecting and I suggest you follow their advice Tessa. Sit down with your doctor and work out an ideal birth plan.

Let him (or her) know what you want to have happen in ideal circumstances and what you want to have happen in other circumstances. They will tell you the same thing at your prenatal classes. Everyone woman has a different idea of how things will go and every doctor has different ideas as well. That's why it's important that you communicate with your doctor. Then make sure he has a copy of your birth plan in his file and keep one with you at the hospital.

I don't know how it is in other places but I was 'assigned' a prenatal nurse who stayed with me until the day after fiona was born. She was beyond fabulous and I talked to her about what I wanted to have happen too. Get your SO involved too and make sure he understands, in great deal, what you want. Because he might have to speak for you if you get too stressed out or emotional.

Doing some work beforehand will help you from being disappointed. Hearing that you are going into it expecting to be disappointed is ... disappointing. It's going to be one of the most memorable days of your life. Try to make it a good one.

And Romy I'm glad your boss did that for you too! I'd have been furious at my doc :mad:
 

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