Do blindly trust doctors?

Discussion in 'The Fire Hydrant' started by tessa_s212, Jun 5, 2009.

  1. smkie

    smkie pointer/labrador/terrier Staff Member

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    How do they treat a cleft palate in a clinic? I am just curious.
     
  2. sillysally

    sillysally Obey the Toad.

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    See, in my case, those doctors have been the minority.

    I have no complaints about my OBGYN, my GP, my dermatologist (I have skin cancer in my family and have had a number of moles removed--all fine thank G-d), my psychologist (bi-polar), my eye doctor, the doctor that did the biopsy on my lymph node and the doctors that I dealt with when i had the bile duct leak after my gall bladder surgery. All of them are great, took time to answer any questions, were honest with me, etc.

    When I had a cancer scare last year the oncologist they referred me to was a complete dick. I saw him once and did not return--I went to a well known teaching hospital instead. With my gall bladder I should have listened to my gut. I actually said to one of my co-workers that I wouldn't let the guy operate on my dogs, but I didn't feel I had the time to find another doctor considering that he said it had to come out right away. That will NEVER happen again. I often wonder if I would have experienced the same complications if someone else had done it. Maybe it would not have made a difference, but I didn't go with my gut and will now always wonder what might have been if I had.

    I have always been taught that I have a certain responsibility for my own health care. I take in lists of questions, I'll bring in a member of my family--usually my mom--for support to ask the things I don't think of. I am not shy about keeping a doctor longer than he intended so that I can get answers. I am like this with doctors, vets, farriers, etc.

    I really think that most doctors do have their patients best interests at heart, and I am certainly not jaded enough about modern medicine to abandon it, because I trust most of the alternative medicine industry less than I do doctors. However, if I get the feeling that I'm just another name on a chart that is just extra work if I ask questions, I'm gone.
     
  3. JennSLK

    JennSLK F150 and a .30-06

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    Some women are built in a away that child birth is hard. Thier hips are built right so it may well have ended up being to big.

    All I can say is to ask the hospital about polocies, it would suck to be in labour and find out doing or not doing something you want is strictly against policy.
     
  4. Lilavati

    Lilavati Arbitrary and Capricious

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    I read up on things, and try to stay informed. I went to law school, not medical school . . . to some extent I feel that I will argue with the doctor about medicine when he argues with me about the filed rate doctrine. But I've generally been lucky enough to have doctors that seemed competent and treated me like a person. When I have not had the feeling they were trustworthy, then I have gotten another doctor. So its not blind trust, and I make sure I know what I have, why they think that, what I'm taking and why . . . but on the other hand, they know infinitely more about medicine than I do, that is, after all, their job . . . and if they actually listen to me and think about it, I think they usually hit on the right answer. I think the doctor listening to you is very important.

    I'm actually probably fussier about vets than human doctors . . . its easy for me to tell if I feel better or not . . .harder with an animal, or to know what sideeffects are happening. I also tend to go to old-school vets who share my animal care philosphy . . .because I don't want to argue with them about what level of treatment I feel is appropriate.

    So . . . I guess my approach for both is find someone who respects you, who listens to you, and who seems intelligent and competent . . .but stay informed . . .but remember that you didn't got to medical school or vet school, and the internet is often, erm, wrong :)
     
  5. bubbatd

    bubbatd Moderator

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    Sorry , but though I believe in " natural and faith healing " I feel that the medical society is there for us and our loved ones . I too am interested how you handled the cleft pallet .
     
  6. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

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    We are not talking faith healing. Many 'natural' medicines can be very similar to the drug company ones.. just less processed.

    I have talked to too many people who have worked for pharmaceutical companies.. know what they were given to entice doctor's to prescribe 'their' drugs to assume that the medical society is there for us. Like any 'company' they are out for themselves. Which isn't the same as saying they don't care (where would you be with out your clients?).. but the medical machina is very very much influenced by the big pharmaceutical companies.
     
  7. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

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    I don't have a doctor. 'Nuff said ;)
     
  8. Romy

    Romy Taxiderpy

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    I have a strong distrust of doctors in general. I have met a handful of good ones, but those have been in minority by far.

    For example, I fell 30 feet when I was 10 years old (out of a tree) and broke my hip and one vertebrae. I could still walk...hobble..er..drag my leg behind me. The doctor DID NOT EVEN X-RAY ME. He told me if I could walk, I was fine. It wasn't unti l4 years later when I went to a chiropractor,that the horrified DC told me one leg was 3 inches shorter than the other, that my regular doctors decided to do a barium bone scan and found that, indeed, I had broken my bones. :mad:

    And another time I got rear ended on the freeway by a car traveling at 50 MPH, when mine was stopped in traffic. I drove myself to the hospital. It hurt SO bad. They x-rayed me, and said I had whiplash and gave me painkillers I was allergic to, even though I told him several times I was allergic and couldn't take them he just smiled and said "uh huh, you'll be fine in a week."

    The next day I woke up and my arms were paralyzed. Went back, did more x rays and they said I was fine and just experiencing "muscle weakness" in my arms. :rolleyes: Right..so weak I couldn't use the bathroom by myself...

    So my mom took me to the chiropractor again, who retook x-rays, and re-took, again and again. It turns out that in order to get an x-ray of the atlas and axis vertebrae you go have take the picture through the open mouth, and they don't always come out clear. So, the doctors decided that I was fine based on blurry x-rays, and the clear ones from my chiropractor showed that I had been walking around with a broken neck.:wall:

    If I had blindly trusted doctors, I would not have reproductive organs. I would not have my daughter. I would not have my colon. I might still be paralyzed (because neurologist #1 said "just wait a few months and see if use of your arms returns" Idiot.)

    That doesn't even scratch what has happened to my family. My sister's kidneys failed when she was five, and the doctor said it was the flu. My mom KNEW it wasn't, it was nothing like the flu so she yelled at him, argued with him, until he retested and when he read the results his face turned white and they literally grabbed her and threw her on a stretcher and into the ambulance, she was in that bad of shape.

    And the grapefruit sized tumor on my om's ovary that twisted and cut off circulation to her organs, was her being a hypochondriac. The only thing that saved her was my dad screaming that he would sue the #*$&(@# out of them if they didn't find out what was really wrong with her. Who tells a patient writhing in agony on the floor that it's all in their head anyway? Just because they are too busy/idiotic to diagnose it right away.

    And then my cousin, who I posted about a couple of months ago when his intestines burst and he was dying. The doctor refused to operate on him, because his "chances of surviving are virtually nothing". My cousin is alive because of ONE good doctor (Bless him). He remembers hearing their conversation. The good doctor said he wanted to give it a shot and operate, because he was going to di e anyway, and with the operation at least had a chance even if it was tiny. The first doctor's response? "Why would you do that? You know he's going to die and that will mess up your score."

    That scum was more worried about some stupid score of how many patients he operated on surviving surgery than actually saving someone's life. When I heard that I wanted to punch his stupid face.

    Sorry for the novel/rant. I just really, really don't trust doctors. I go to a chinese doctor for 99% of things now, and have been very happy with my treatment so far..
     
  9. sillysally

    sillysally Obey the Toad.

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    And they can also be snake oil. I always find it odd that people seem so much more willing to trust those in the "alternative" fields than modern doctors. I don't think that they are any less in it for themselves than anyone else--they're just doing it in a way that is less regulated. This is coming by the way, from someone who uses a chiropractor and swears by him, has used one for her horse, uses a massage and swim therapist for her dog, would willingly use acupuncture if necessary, uses supplements for horses and dogs and self. However, what I have learned from researching all that is buyer beware--big time.

    I have been to a ton of doctors and never had one push one drug over the other if there were a number of options (and I know if there are because I check). They willingly answered my questions and have all made efforts to put me on generics of that is what I choose. Actually, recently DH left the doctors all mad because he would not give him an antibiotic because he didn't believe that he needed one, that his body could fight off what was ailing him. It would have been much easier for that doctor to just send him off with a Z pack rather than argue with him, but he didn't think it was best so they didn't prescribe it. Turns out, the doctor was right and he got over it in a week.
     
  10. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

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    Last time I heard there were a few bazillion Chinese people still populating the earth. Maybe the medicine they've been practicing for thousands of years has some merit, hmm? ;)

    One of my biggest gripes with western medicine is that we give drugs to cover up symptoms and mask pain.

    And a lot of the "medicines" that are being put out into the market aren't much better -- if any at all -- than pure poison.

    "Do no harm" my ass.
     
  11. sillysally

    sillysally Obey the Toad.

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    Actually, from what I've read China's average life span has jumped in the last 50 years or so and is expected to rise. Interestingly enough, this coincides with in introduction to modern medicine to the country....

    I think that Chinese medicine does have merit, have investigated it for use with Jack's elbow, and if he were not doing well now would go to a vet practiced in such things and use it.

    The truth is that in many Asian countries people are healthier than here in the states, and a lot of that has to do with diet. I do think that now western medicine is coming to grips with the fact that the best cure is prevention, but there is only so much a doctor can do--he can't force you to eat more veggies and less Big Macs.
     
  12. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

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    Statistics regarding lifespan in China are so nebulous. How do you know that the figures include only naturally occurring deaths and not executions, ad nauseum.

    I have to love the great aunt of an acquaintance. She's in her mid 90s and had never seen a doctor until just recently when her family pressured her into a check up. The doctor was aghast that she was in her 90s and was taking no prescription drugs and wanted to put her on several, even though there was nothing wrong with her. It was inconceivable that someone of that age wouldn't be dependent on prescriptions for SOMETHING.

    No, I think I will continue my practice of staying as far away from western medicine as possible in this culture. And consider that I was diagnosed with myasthenia gravis back when I was 14 -- maybe it was 15. I haven't taken a single med or seen a neurologist since I was 18 when I decided I was done with their bullshit.
     
  13. Romy

    Romy Taxiderpy

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    If you look at statistics, they are based on averages. Now consider, in times past, infant mortality has always been much higher that in times where we have things like incubators, etc. for all the preemies and other distressed infants who might not otherwise survive, or simply hydrating IV drips for toddlers and younger so that simple diseases that cause diarrhea and vomiting don't end up killing, etc.

    So in the past, you have tons of people who die before the age of two. But then the ones who survive past childhood tended to live a loooong time. Average those out, and you get and average life span for the population as a whole, not the average life span an individual could be expected to live.

    It's interesting that places with the highest concentrations of centenarians are in underdeveloped places with little to no access to conventional western medicine.

    What I love about eastern medicine is the emphasis on balance. The idea that excesses cause imbalances, which lead to disease and that restoring that balance allows the body to heal itself. That approach has worked extremely well for my chronic problems. After a year of treatment, my vertebrae is no longer fused. No surgery needed. That is a huge deal for me.

    An awesome story about my old tai chi instructor. He was a doctor in the US army, and got stationed in Korea. He was one of the unfortunate few who are served the poisonous part of the fugu fish. He became quadriplegic as a result. None of the western doctors in Korea could make any headway with his condition. His Korean friends poo pooed the American doctors and told him "we have doctors who can fix fugu fish poisoning" so he went with an eastern doctor. And it worked.

    The guy is in his 70s, and I SWEAR he looks like he's in his late 30s/early 40s. I want what he's got! And his tai chi instructor in still alive, he recently moved back to Hong Kong. He was over 100 years old last time I saw him. Taking no meds, strong as anything. He has been doing tai chi his whole life. He studied under the actual Yang Chen Fu. :eek:
     
  14. sillysally

    sillysally Obey the Toad.

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    And I know cats who have lived to 20 eating nothing but Meow Mix and Cat Chow. I know dogs that have lived well into their teens on Pedigree. There are people that have smoked and lived well into their 90's. Do we take that as evidence that those foods and that habit is the key to a long life?
     
  15. sillysally

    sillysally Obey the Toad.

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    Okinawa seems to have the highest percentage of centenarians. As a culture, they eat a TON of veggies, a ton whole grains and lots of fruit. Veggies, fruits and grains make up something like 70% of their diet. They don't eat anywhere near the amount of animal fat that we do here. In addition to the types of food they eat, they also eat a lot fewer calories and fats than people in Europe and North America. Exercise is also a big deal over there, as is spirituality (something that is known to improve health).

    As far as health care goes, they incorporate BOTH eastern and western medicine. I'm not saying that there is no value in eastern medicine, but when many of those who practice it also traditionally have diet and exercise habits that we know equal better health it's hard to point to that practice as the only reason the people there are living so long. It's a combination of things.

    I think it is always a good idea to have an open mind when it comes to health care. However, alternative medicine in the US is a very "buyer beware" situation. You have alternative health practitioners that are good people and good at what they do, but you also have a good deal of them who disreputable, greedy, and taking advantage of people.

    People can do what they wish, but personally I don't automatically put more faith in a practitioner of alternative medicine just because they are not a western doctor. I am just as suspicious with either, and it seems that a frightening number of people will blindly trust alternative practitioners.
     
  16. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

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    That is true of anything.

    I don't blindly trust ANYTHING lol. I had neck and back problems my Dr couldn't help. Figured what the heck and tried chiropractic. WOW... things got fixed that I didn't think could get fixed through chiropractic. (I wasn't expecting much)

    Acupuncture helped bring me into labour when 12 hours of pictocin wouldn't.

    I DO go to my Dr... I love LOVE the Canadian health system-but I don't think they are the end all and be all of for health.
     
  17. bubbatd

    bubbatd Moderator

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    I basically just have a yearly check up ...... but if there's a red flag I check with my Dr.
     
  18. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

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    :wall: All that is an integral part of the Eastern "medical" philosophy.

    But, obviously, I'm not going to be joining the ranks of the conformists any time in the foreseeable future. Maybe if I were enthralled with the idea of going back to living in a physical state where I couldn't even hold a hair dryer up long enough to dry my hair, or even chew food half the time . . .
     
  19. sparks19

    sparks19 I'd rather be at Disney

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    9 times out of 10 my Doctor and Hannahs pediatrician has prescribe generics.... especially for me since I have no insurance at the moment so she makes it a point to prescribe the generics for me to keep my cost down... I don't even have to ask :)

    And Hannah's backup pediatrician? I don't EVER have any questions to ask him lol. When she has to see him we usually sit in the examination room for 40 minutes waiting for our turn... why does he take so long? because he ALWAYS covers EVERYTHING. For example... Hannah had a nasty cough that wasn't going away after a week so I took her to the doctor (I always get a little nervous after her being born with Pneumonia so when she starts coughing or having difficulty breathing for a prolonged period of time I don't mess around lol) . WE waited and waited and finally he came in. he spent some time with Hannah just getting her comfortable with him and getting as much info from us as he could about what was going on and for how long. then he listened to her chest and her breathing and everything else and told us exactly what it sounded like. said that her cough was productive but her lungs were nice and clear. NO fever etc etc. So he went into our options. HIs FIRST recommendation? don't treat her. her lungs were free and clear, she didn't have a fever and he thought that maybe this was something that she would be able to kick on her own without any medication. Then he said that if she started to get worse or wasn't getting any better after another week that we could put her on antibiotics and then went into the info about the different types of antibiotics and what they are good for treating. Like some are better for ear infections, some are good for a combo of issues etc etc. said that if she DID end up needing to take antibiotics that he would prescribe her a lower dosage instead of a regular dosage and made a POINT to tell us to double check at the pharmacy when they gave us the antibiotics that they mixed it at the lower dosage... and low and behold that's exactly what happened. Brian checked it and it was the full dose so he had to tell them to remix it. if the Doctor hadn't make a point to tell us that we would have taken the full dose home.... it wouldn't have hurt Hannah but she didn't NEED a full dosage. honestly... when we see this doctor we are often in the room with him for almost a half an hour while he goes over every single little detail and tells us exactly what we can expect... and so far he has never steered up wrong yet :)

    Hannahs main pediatrician is also very wonderful. she's young ... like closer in age to us and actually just had her first child :) so it's nice having a doctor I can really relate to on a personal level. If she is not absolutely 100% positive about something... she will look it up and TELL you that she is going to look it up to make absolutely sure. Like when Hannah needed some serious cream for her eczema. She wanted to make doubly triply sure before she prescribed anything for her. I LOVE having a family doctor that isn't afraid to admit that she wants to double check her info.

    Now that being said... When I lived in London I was going to the only doctor that was taking on new patients... she was TERRIBLE. absolutely horrible. she treated you like you were a waste of her time and she coudln't be bothered to talk to you. I won't go into tons of details here lol as there are a lot. but she has never once diagnosed me correctly... no wonder she was the only doctor in London taking on patients lol.

    so I have been on both sides of the spectrum. there are good and bad in every profession but when you find a good one... stick with them if you can. I'm more likely to trust a doctor that I have bonded with and formed a good relationship with who KNOWS me and KNOWS my history rather than hopping from one doctor to another.
     
  20. Gempress

    Gempress Walks into Mordor

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    This is one of the things I don't understand. Why do people in the West seem to have such a romanticized notion of Asian health/medicine?

    My mother is from one of those tiny, isolated Asian villages that depended on the romanticized eastern medicine. My great-grandfather was the village healer, specializing in herbals and traditional medicine. He was their day-to-day doctor, and did everything from treat arthritis to deliver babies.

    Let me tell you what it was really like. Firsthand account, as heard from my mother who actually lived it every day. Overall, people were very healthy. They ate a very healthy diet, and worked hard and long in the fields. They caught very few viruses, mostly due to the isolation of the village from the rest of the world. And as all doctors will tell you, physical fitness and diet are 90 percent of your health nowdays. So everything was mostly pretty good.

    Here's the downside. If you got appendicitis...you DIED. There was no surgery. If you couldn't deliver your baby naturally...you DIED. No C-section. If you got an infection, you had better be able to kick it on your own. No antibiotics unless they took you to a major city.

    My mother had an ear infection when she was 8 years old. A very minor ailment by Western medical standards. But the traditional medicine didn't work. Candling, herbs...none of it. They had no antibiotics available. The infection grew in severity until she was in agonizing pain, and almost delirious with high fever. She was very sick for a long time. Fortunately her body beat the infection, but her hearing in that ear was beyond saving. She's almost completely deaf in that ear, and has a hole in her eardrum to this day.

    Everyone in my mother's village, although healthy, had dental problems. They were losing their teeth by their 40s and 50s. All my mom's brothers and sisters had dental problems too, and it required extensive treatment as they aged. You know why? There was no flouride treatments. No regular dental cleanings. No flouride in their drinking water, either. And their teeth suffered.

    My mom said they actually depended heavily on a team of Western doctors who came to their village twice annually to vaccinate the new babies, deworm the children (eww) and see to ailments that the traditional medicine simply couldn't help.

    If traditional medicines are so good, why did people die with appalling frequency from ailments that are peanuts to treat nowdays? And in isolated areas of the world, you can still die from what are now considered minor problems. The elimination of polio....end of smallpox....antibiotics....ALL credited to Western medicine.

    I know there are people who put their faith in traditional medicines. Not me.
     

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