Dilemma

Discussion in 'Dogs - General Dog Chat' started by Romy, Apr 24, 2013.

  1. Romy

    Romy Taxiderpy

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    I keep hashing this out and it's so hard to make it work in my head. :-/ What do I dooo!?!

    The plan is to breed Kaia on her next season. I deeply regret not keeping one from last time. Especially after seeing how they matured. So her breeder and I are going to co-breed a second, very last litter. If things work out like we hope, the dog I keep will become my foundation because I learned from the last litter that I love this breed enough to stick with them long term and want to begin building my own line.

    By then Strider will be 6. Kaia will be 4 when they're born. Depending on what is born I plan to keep pick bitch and my sister is getting pick dog since I won't make Strider live with another male.

    That will put me at 3 zois. It should work out totally fine and awesome. Kaia isn't a bitchy bitch and gets along great with other girls. She goes and visits one of her daughters regularly and all.

    Here's the dilemma part. I really need a guard/watch dog. There's a scary/dangerous domestic situation that will likely remain a problem my entire life. A few of you know the details. The person in question has shown they can navigate a yard and avoid cameras/motion sensors (not going to go in detail in public, but it was unnerving).

    I'm not expecting the dog to run interference on intruders, but won't complain if it decides to. What I do want is a dog that will raise Cain if someone enters our yard and especially if they come into the house. I am still going to utilize surveillance type tools on my private property and take other safety measures.

    One of the huge problems is this has me not sleeping at night. I just lay there thinking, what if he comes through the window right.... NOW. Or how about... NOW..... NOW... All. Night. Long. (thanks brain!) I feel like, if I had a dog that was hyper aware to things like that I could trust it enough to be able to relax in my own home, which will be huge when I can finally afford my own place because it will be just me and the kids at home at that point. The most likely scenario is to only have the 3 zois, work from home, and get the 4th when I move out.

    So... how to make 4 dogs work? Does this even sound like a good idea? Luckily the three are borzois which are really easy. It seems like a lot of the guardian/watchdog breeds are higher maintenance though, but maybe that's just skewed perception.

    I would really love a single dog in the household of sight hounds that is more into tracking and the tracking side of hunting, which it seems like a lot of the guarding/watching types are more suited for.
     
  2. Paige

    Paige Let it be

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    I think if you can afford four dogs this is a great idea. If it isn't., maybe not. Is that an issue?

    Also are you able to teach the zoi's to alert? Bandit alerts though he isn't tough looking so he doesn't really deter people on a physical aspect.
     
  3. crazedACD

    crazedACD Active Member

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    I don't see why you couldn't have four dogs. Multiple dogs work well for me, just make sure you are matching temperaments and sexes properly. A lot of the guardy breeds are prone to SSA, I think carefully choosing the right breed/dog would be best. Maybe even an adult dog? Seems kind of pointless to get a puppy puppy in a few months...I don't know what the situation is, but I would assume right now is the most 'danger', and it would lessen as time goes on.

    I do have to ask though, what happened with Katalin?
     
  4. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    Four dogs, if they all get along and can exercise/coexist with relative ease, is not that bad. The main issue for us is care while we leave town, finding someone we trust with them and someone who'd willing to care for 4, can manage 4, and won't cost a fortune is hard. The second concern is we have two who hate each other, we have to rotate when not calm and supervised, we have to always be aware and that is exhausting. The last concern is cost of feed, malinois (like a guardian breed, I assume) eat a ton and it adds up financially.

    We don't mind and are happy with four, we won't however have this many with rotations again.
     
  5. CaliTerp07

    CaliTerp07 New Member

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    Can you not set up a security system attached to all doors/windows? We have one that beeps any time any window or door is opened (just a quick chirp). If we had it activated, we could have it set to raise heck if it was opened during certain hours or whatever. Short of cutting a hole in your roof, I would think that would provide some peace of mind.
     
  6. PWCorgi

    PWCorgi Priscilla Winifred Corgi

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    I will answer all of your prayers by sending you Frodo :)
     
  7. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    This is very valid.
     
  8. Grab

    Grab Active Member

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    We have a similar security system at work..every time a window/door is opened, it beeps. Of course,when it's fully activated, the alarm goes off and notifies the alarm company if someone doesn't enter a code.
     
  9. ruffiangirl

    ruffiangirl New Member

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    Security systems is part of our business, and I Don't know what happened, but I would question the security system, or camera system installation, properly done Casper the friendly Ghost couldn't float his shimmery butt through without getting caught. IE there should be no holes that anyone can figure out and sneak by when it's armed. 360 degree motions are fantastic in areas that have multiple angles and a regular motion won't work. Like mentioned sensors on every window and door, and glass breaks in the rooms with window incase they decide to come in that way, thus negating the regular door contact. Also a system with 2-way voice for domestic situations is the cats butt!

    As for the cameras, again properly mounted, should have no way for anyone to get near them to vandalize, turn or wreck them without being seen. And with a proper surveillance system and security system a dog would be able to be an alert/protection dog that is kept close to you in the event that a person decides to go for broke and take his chances. As apposed to a dog that is in the yard and easily tampered with, poisoned, shot, let loose anything to put it out of commission.

    Just my two cents.
     
  10. Saeleofu

    Saeleofu Active Member

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    Well, if you want a dog that will alert bark, you should get a collie. They're not really high maintenance. Just sayin' ;)

    Really, though, lots of people make 4 dogs work. I dogsat 8 dogs and had my two and Tango in the same house (so 11 dogs total) and it wasn't that bad. It took forever to feed and medicate everyone, but they could all go outside together (except Tango due to raptors) after the first several weeks. She had it set up so my three were in one room, her 4 oldest were in one room, and the 4 youngest were in one room. So her dogs were always kept in groups of 4 without any serious problems.

    I think if you want to make it super easy, get a 4th dog that is roughly the same size as the zois. Then you don't have to worry about one dog being vastly bigger or smaller than the others, which can cause issues depending on the dogs.
     
  11. Xandra

    Xandra Active Member

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    I hate to admit it because it is WAY less fun than a new dog, but I think a security system is probably a better bet.

    Roman doesn't always bark when he should (mind you usually when he barks I just tell him to be quite :p), and I know of quite a few other dogs that SHOULD be alert and wary enough to bark in the night, but don't. What happens if you get a dog who's a total bum?? Then you have 4 dogs and you still can't sleep at night. A security system never sleeps, and if it isn't up to snuff you can replace it without feeling guilty :p.
     
  12. Toller_08

    Toller_08 Active Member

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    I know nothing about security systems, but I do have lots of 4+ dog experience. And honestly, while sometimes four dogs can seem like a lot, most of the time it's pretty easy and no different than having three in most ways. If the dogs didn't get along then it would definitely be stressful, but mine do all get along and are matched well to eachother. I also have two with lower activity needs which helps make caring for all of them even easier. With that said, I don't know how I would feel if I were the sole caretaker all the time, although I am most of the time. So yeah, if you can afford it, I don't see a big difference between three and four. Food bills might be pretty high though. Adding a fourth here increased food costs surprisingly considerably. Not horribly, but noticeable for sure on the months I pay for everybody.
     
  13. Pops2

    Pops2 New Member

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    I'd recommend a good cur dog probably black mouth, but an ALCBA leopard or currish plott would work too. WORKING houlas are prone to SSA and dominance related aggression but they are also a lot more touchy about strangers coming around uninvited. July & plott hounds are supposed to have some of that as well but not to the same degree as the curs. Also drathaar or German wire hair might fill the bill on your needs.
    I wish I had a Jack (houlaXamerican bulldog) for you as he was exactly what you need.
     
  14. Aescleah

    Aescleah New Member

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    I am so sorry this is happening to you and your family first and foremost i would get a better security system maybe leave the one you have since he is used to it and have a another one he does not know about since he is probley a cocky *******
    another thing instead of a guardian breed how about a small terrier small dogs can be better at alerting my min pin for instance is very alert and is the first to tell me something is amiss i worked for a kennel once and there was a building that housed toy poodles and rotties only it was the poodles who warned the rotties no matter where you entered the building they were truly amazing
    and he might feel threatened enough to poison a guardian breed where a alert little dog he might just laugh at how about a cheeky jack russell

    Ashley

    ps i hope you have a restraining order out on this tosser
     
  15. Romy

    Romy Taxiderpy

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    Deal! :cool:

    The SSA is something I'm really concerned about with a lot of breeds. Strider isn't outright SSA, but other males do get on his nerves and he's way less tolerant of their shenanigans than he is with females (who can get away with murder. Well, eating out of his bowl at the same time as him anyway. lol).

    I really don't want to have to crate and rotate. Especially since I have two small kids, the younger is at face height with the zois and I don't want them getting caught between two snarking dogs. Especially two big powerful ones. I worked really really hard to eliminate food guarding between the zois specifically for that reason.

    Kaia sometimes alerts if she sees something/someone suspicious, but the problem with the zois is when they're asleep, they're dead asleep and totally oblivious to the world. We had several people over today and they slept through it all even though they were in the same room as the visitors. And one time a burglar tried to bust through the front door in broad daylight. It was locked, my sister started screaming bloody murder, and they slept through the entire thing! Even when we brought the police in and chatted with them for about 45 mins. Watchdog fail. lol. Also, the two older zois were raised with Scary Guy so I don't know what they'd do exactly. Strider is afraid of him, Kaia I don't know at this point. I think a third zoi would take cues from the older ones and not do much though.

    Putting alarms on the windows too is definitely a good idea. I'll check into those as well!

    Kat is still here, Stephy is saving up for a dog-friendly apartment and I'm really glad to have a kuvasz as a house guest at the moment. Long term she's not going to stay though so I'm looking for one of my own. After living with her, I've discovered that I love the breed but the fluffy white coat is super unpractical here in the NW. Poor Kat looked more like a sarplaninac than a kuvasz most of the winter, and never really fully dried out between going outside and inside. :( If they made smooth coated kuvasz I'd get one in an instant. She's great with my dogs and kids, and actually has run off a couple of prowlers. Kuvasz also aren't terribly interested in tracking, but that's not the top of the list priority.

    Unfortunately, her only vice is that she devours socks. I try really hard to keep things picked up, but with the two kids it's impossible to get every single sock. At night she'll find secret socks under rugs, furniture, stuffed behind bookcases (the joys of babies) then she barfs them up a couple of days later. I really don't want her to get an impaction or something so she's confined at night. The kids and I share a room right now and it's too cramped to fit a giant sized crate in addition to the zoi beds.

    So far I've sort of narrowed it down to several possible breeds. The most important qualities being:

    Gets along with other dogs
    Strong watchdog and/or guarding ability
    Smooth or medium coat (like a GSD type coat)

    Preferences:

    Tracking ability
    Prey Drive
    Not white
    35-110 lbs. Bigger is okay but prefer something I can lift.

    Of actual breeds, the SSA potential wiped most of them off the list. :( And with any of the LGDs, I strongly prefer to raise them from puppies myself.
     
  16. ruffiangirl

    ruffiangirl New Member

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    Just going to say that rotties usually are not alerting dogs, protection dogs, yes, but they were supposed to work silently. For us out poodle/yorkie mix is defiantly the alerting dog, Diesel barks, Gage (rottie/mastiff mix) investigates and barks if he feels its warranted.
     
  17. ruffiangirl

    ruffiangirl New Member

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    What brand is your security system? Not your monitoring, but the actual system? If you don't know send me a pic of the keypad and I can look and see what the different kinds of sensors are available for that system that can help you.

    If you would like.
     
  18. Saeleofu

    Saeleofu Active Member

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    What about a boxer? Gavroche can be downright terrifying, and nothing slips past him. They're a bit on the smaller side, especially if you get a female (which I would recommend, since males can be jerks with other dogs...like Gavroche). Only thing is I don't know if Gavroche's reactions are typical of boxers, since he's my first and I can't even say if he's purebred. He freaking LOVES kids, though, and will protect them with his life if he had to. He hates, hate, HATES water, but jumped in the pool multiple times when my nephew was "in danger" (not really in danger, but Gavroche though he was!). I need to get a video of him barking at church solicitors ones of these days, he's terrifying. And he has GRIP. I would not want to get on this dog's bag side. He's shown an inclination for scenting, too, and I was actually going to start a thread earlier on introducing nosework because he's such a sniffer lol.
     
  19. Romy

    Romy Taxiderpy

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    Oh man so many people replied because I took forever writing my reply. lol

    Sael, you should know that collies don't bark, they beep. BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP :rofl1:

    I love them, but for some reason most herding breeds get on my nerves while living with them. Also, ever since Logan humped her Kaia has despised collies. Even girl collies. Breedist. She'd probably get friendly with a collie that became part of the family though.

    Awesome! What do the security systems run off of? Like, if the house lost power would the security system fail?

    I definitely don't intend for the dog to live outside. My dogs go outside but the don't spend hours and hours unattended or anything. We keep padlocks on the gates around here because of problems with yard prowlers before Kat ran them off and I plan to continue doing that. And keep up with the "don't eat random food outside" training. They'd all be in the house with the family at night for sure.

    I looked into a working bred cur/hound blend, scent or sight would work if it had alert dog ability. Unfortunately I don't know of anybody around here that has something like that. Ever since the state banned hunting cougars and bears with hounds people only hunt raccoons. I only see walkers and redbones with hunters any more, except the bird hunters but I don't want a bird dog.
     
  20. Saeleofu

    Saeleofu Active Member

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    That's okay, Gavroche hates boxers. Even girl ones lol.
     

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