Dealing with Bamm and kids

Discussion in 'Dogs - General Dog Chat' started by skittledoo, May 8, 2013.

  1. Dizzy

    Dizzy Sit! Good dog.

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    I don't think anyone is saying put bamm to sleep before having a child. I think it's being said as a.. You have to be prepared for the worst.
     
  2. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    I absolutely love kids and I would do anything to protect my nieces. But I don't think every non child friendly dog should be put down before having kids. It really depends on the situation with that dog and how you can manage it. I would be very nervous with a dog that reacts aggressively towards sudden movement. But I think a dog that reacts by running could be managed. Ive only been around Bamm a short time though and he was behaving then so I've never seen this behavior. I don't think it's something that needs to be decided now though. Something to realize may come down the line though. No one will blame you for putting a kid before a dog though.
     
  3. skittledoo

    skittledoo Crazy naked dog lady

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    I've read the last few pages. Was working all day yesterday and then had class with Cricket so wasn't able to respond.

    I'll respond after I get my morning stuff done and am able to get on my actual computer since typing on my phone is a pain in the butt.
     
  4. skittledoo

    skittledoo Crazy naked dog lady

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    Alrighty... finally at my computer now so I can post

    I do have a softer basket muzzle. I think it's called the baskerville ultra muzzle or something like that. The basket is a foldable harder rubber. The only thing I don't like about it is it doesn't seem to fit him right and pushes on his nose a bit. The next size up was way too big for him though. We have worked with him in that muzzle a LOT though so he's gotten better with muzzles... basket style ones at least. I may look into getting a greyhound style basket muzzle for him since that probably wouldn't put pressure on his nose. I do like that the baskerville is great for being able to easily still give your dog treats for training though.

    I definitely will look into the chiropractor route. I'll probably wait on that until we are in our own place though. We are shooting for the end of the summer and Josh has some really big job bids that are coming up which will make putting aside extra money to rent out own place even easier. He's actually going to be redoing a bunch of stuff at a prison and then has a bunch of work he's going to be doing for a millionaire out here. Should be good money.

    On the subject of Josh... things are going MUCH better these days and have been for the most part the past 6 months. We do fight still on occasion, but not like we used to. Went through a marriage communication class that has helped us learn to really talk things out better and see each other as our own individuals that are allowed our own thoughts and opinions. He also chose to go see the marriage counselor on his own which was a huge step for mr pride. He's still a little controlling.... mainly when it comes to money, but I don't foresee that changing. He has gotten better though and I have access to our bank account now and he doesn't hassle me if I spend a little money here and there. He just asks that if I use the bank card that I let him know how much I spend and that if it's over a certain amount that I check in with him first to make sure we can afford for me to spend that money. I think that's pretty reasonable. It's his way of keeping track of the budget and not allowing our account to go into the negatives. My bank account when I was single was constantly going into the negatives. Since we've been married the bank account has not hit negatives once because he is so anal about budget. I don't give him my entire paychecks anymore though. I'll give him the money to help pay my car and the money to pay one or two of our bills, but that's it. The rest of what I make pays for dog food, raw cat food, vet bills, some of our meals, some gas and I have set myself a portion of my income to spend on fun stuff though most of that gets put away for tattoo savings or vet funds if something should arise that might cost more than what I have set aside for vet bills. Sometimes it also goes towards treating us to a nice dinner once in a while or date night of some sort. There are still things that we don't like so much about each other, but I think it's safe to say that in every relationship you will find something you don't like about the other person and the stuff we don't like about each other isn't exactly marriage ending. I can deal with stubborn and hard headed as long as the super controlling aspect that he had going on for a while there isn't rearing it's ugly head. Things have definitely gotten much better though and when he's an ass I stand up for myself now when I didn't so much before. I don't put up with it and he doesn't try to push my buttons much anymore.

    The bolded is what I experience. It could be that it really is predictable and that I'm failing to see the signs because I'm around him so much. Biggest reason why I need to get a behaviorist on board.
     
  5. skittledoo

    skittledoo Crazy naked dog lady

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    I love my dogs more than anything. Anyone that knows me knows this.... but in a situation where a child is brought into the equation, that child will always come first no matter what. I didn't understand that years ago, but now that I'm more in the stage of my life where kids are starting to become more of a reality I've had to really take a step back and swallow that thought. When I was younger there was not a thing in the world that I would be willing to put before my dog. Also... waiting until Bamm is old and gone isn't super realistic when conceiving is really hard to do. I'm not willing to wait until he has passed on to start trying because I might miss what little window I may have.

    That said, I still want to give it a shot and don't have any intentions of putting him to sleep before I have a kid. I'm going to work with a behaviorist, try meds, get him checked out to make sure there isn't anything else medically wrong that could be contributing, etc. He has had his thyroid checked before and that was fine, but it's been a while so I'm also going to have that checked out as well. If a child comes along and he ends up being too stressed over it and/or poses a danger than I'll cross that bridge and kindly choose to euthanize. Last night I went over and over in my head about whether or not I'd consider rehoming him to a trainer with no kids and no intentions of kids, but while he might do ok I don't think uprooting him from everything he knows and making him start over is a good idea and I think it could potentially wind up truly damaging him. I'd much rather euthanize him than have everything he knows ripped out from under him like that.

    In my defense... on the bold subject... he isn't allowed on couches anymore at all. I've come a LONG way in learning dog behavior since the incident Nolu was referring to. That was quite a few years ago.
     
  6. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    I just want to say while I appreciate the response I hope you know I think you're great and really know you mean best. I brought that up to point out at least one workable/preventable issue that, IMO, does not signify an unstable dog.
     
  7. skittledoo

    skittledoo Crazy naked dog lady

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    Oh ok. I gotcha. Sorry. Responded on sleepy brain lol. Reallly tired today.
     
  8. Dogdragoness

    Dogdragoness Happy Spring!!!!

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    This might seem a little blunt & I am sorry for that but I will Try not to be.

    The dog was there first ... YOU chose HIM he didn't get to choose. You could try to work with a trainer (a good one) but be prepared for the diagnosis of "he's just not that good with kids & that's who he is" Izze ... The best dog I had hated HATED kids under 7 & I wouldn't have have her up for anything so you can understand why I prickle a little when someone wants kids but their dog isn't god with them so they contemplate getting rid of the dog so they can have kids. Sorry if I say that sounds a little selfish.

    Given his tendencies & history you might have to wait til he passes on. It's only fair to him.
     
  9. Dogdragoness

    Dogdragoness Happy Spring!!!!

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    I wouldn't or couldn't do that ... Even though she has passed away ... When I think of doigrhatbto Izze my heart clenches & it's hard to breathe ... Like I am having a panic attack. It was hard enough to lose her by someone else's (we think but can't prove) hand was hard enough ... I can't imagine making the choice to end my dogs life myself.

    No just ... No.
     
  10. Zhucca

    Zhucca Lab Love

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    Yeah, say you have a 2yr old dog and you get pregnant. The dog displays all the same behaviours Bamm is displaying. You're saying you would put your child in danger because of that dog? What if your dog lives well into his teens; are you going to wait until you're in your 30s, 40s to have a kid? That's not reasonable for most people. If that would work for you, good for you.

    I love dogs as much as anyone, but humans always come first. Everyone should be in it for the long haul when they get a dog. But unexpected things happen. Animals develop issues and sometimes are incompatible with the owner, some things training and management cannot fix.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2013
  11. Dogdragoness

    Dogdragoness Happy Spring!!!!

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    Not to me ... Even OH knows if we are ever in an "it's me or the dog" situation he knows it would be the dog. Since I will never ever have kids I will never have to worry about this.

    But ... The thing IS as a human YOU chose the dog therefore IMHO I think some obligation is in order there also. In fact part of my decision not to have kids was because of my dogs & what's best for them because I chose them, they didn't choose me. They didn get a choice.

    I was just speaking hypothetically in Reference to the situation.
     
  12. skittledoo

    skittledoo Crazy naked dog lady

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    And that is your opinion. Do you want kids? Guessing probably not which is why you feel the way you do. You only have a certain window of opportunity to conceive. The older you get the harder it is to conceive and the higher the possibility of a high risk pregnancy. I'm not exactly having an easy time getting pregnant as it is currently and I'm almost 27 years old. Time is ticking.

    When I first got Bamm I wasn't even aware of how he was with kids. I had him around a 2 year old and he seemed fine and you know what? Sometimes he does seem "fine"... And then all of a sudden he just isn't. Sometimes he shows sign that he is uncomfortable... Whale eye, lip licking etc... Sometimes he doesn't show major signs... Or at least not that are obvious to my somewhat trained eye. This is where yes a behaviorist is a good idea to get involved.

    He is 7 years old. If he lives another 7 years that will put me at 33 years old. My mom had an emergency hysterectomy at 32 because of cysts that were causing her tremendous pain. I'm pretty sure I have PCOS and honestly knowing that about my mom does make me want to conceive before anything happens that makes the idea of conceiving a healthy child and having a healthy pregnancy a near impossibility.

    And not once did I say I want to get rid of my dog just so I can have kids. Please don't put me in that category of people that just give up their pets willy nilly because they are having kids. It's really not that black and white. You haven't been on this forum long enough to really know me and my relationship with Bamm. I would jump off a **** cliff for that dog, but I will not put a child human being's life at major risk for any dog. If you think that's selfish then so be it. Hell, if Cricket was aggressive towards kids i'd be going over the same thoughts in my head and she is my true heart dog. That doesn't mean I don't love her, Bamm or Joey at all.
     
  13. Dogdragoness

    Dogdragoness Happy Spring!!!!

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    Has he been to the vet & had BW done? Maybe something is off, which makes him act the way he does.
     
  14. milos_mommy

    milos_mommy Active Member

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    There is a huge difference between giving up a dog because you have kids because you suddenly "don't have time" or "don't have extra money" even though you're still paying for cable and an iphone and your weekly manicure, and giving up or euthanizing a dog who is jeopardizing the safety of your children.

    I also think it's incredibly skewed to judge someone who is planning on trying to conceive a child for trying to do whatever they can to protect both their dog and their family, even if that means making really hard decisions for the dog.
     
  15. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    I'm really not sure why dogdragoness is even on this thread, she hates kids(which probably went down te lead to her dog), how could she possibly have a relatable stance and unbiased advice?
     
  16. Paige

    Paige Let it be

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    As a parent (or wanting to be a parent) you put your child's needs above all else. It is not selfish. It is SELFLESS. You putting your baby's needs above anyone else's. Sorry, but that includes the dog. Anything putting my child at risk be it a person I love, my dear dog or a wild animal is going to be dealt with in whatever way it needs to be to protect my baby from harm.

    Before having children I was not a kid person. I thought the love I had for my horse and dog was the most extreme love I could feel. Then I had Briggs and nothing compares. My dogs still is my best friend. I am sitting in bed with Bandit right now listening to him breathe. He is the greatest companion I will ever have but my babies? Life would loose its meaning without them.

    Anyways, ramble ramble. Amber if you feel Bamm is not stable enough after putting the work in there is no shame in going forward with your life, making the choice to have a family and letting him go. You have given him your all and most people would not have granted him that. Bamm is one lucky guy to have such an amazing person.

    I have given up and done so much to be able to keep Bandit in my home. I love this dog to pieces. He is apart of my family. I would rather eat macaroni for the rest of my days than see him pass on before his natural life. But I would not hesitate to put my dog down if he was endangering anyone's child. Especially my own.
     
  17. Panzerotti

    Panzerotti New Member

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    I agree, as would pretty much any sane person. I so know what you are going through. I have an unpredictably aggressive dog as well (Solo, my mutt), and he was my major learning dog as well. We have gone through so much together and I have done so much for him, but if he proved to be unsafe around a child of mine, I would not hesitate to euthanize.

    Like most people here, I love my dogs an insane amount, do everything I can to keep them in optimal health, and provide them with what I think is the best dog life possible. However, potentially scarring a child physically, psychologically, or emotionally; putting a child's well being in second place, favoring a dog that has severe issues is not something that I would ever do.
     
  18. Airn

    Airn New Member

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    Lol. Dogdragoness on parenting.


    I really hope Bamm does a turnaround and loves your child(ren). I really have no advice, at least nothing that hasn't been said. I would love to see how everything goes, as Gwen doesn't like children and I also have PCOS and will be looking to possibly have a child (or at least try) in the next few years.

    Children come first. HUMAN children. It's great that you love your dogs, but I'm glad you realize that a baby would be more important than maybe another 7 years with one of your dogs.
     
  19. StillandSilent

    StillandSilent New Member

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    Let me point out that I also hate kids and genuinley do not understand why any sane person would desire one.

    I would still choose the life and safety of a child over a dog. Gambit does not have a bite history and is safe with people he knows. That said, I don't think he would be any safer then Bamm with a small child. If I desired a kid, I would have the same tough decision to make.

    See a behaviorist, try the meds, and do everything possible. Then, if worst comes to worst, you will know you tried everything before euthanasia. Good luck
     
  20. crazedACD

    crazedACD Active Member

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    This.

    I had a puppy that I got out of a yard at 3-4 months old. Pit mix. He seemed fine right off, but immediately started shying from people when I took him out. I was going out places with him maybe 4-5 days a week, socializing out the wazoo. Pet stores, dog parks, we went to a benefit for a rescue at an off leash dog park. I had him out somewhere and he was sitting against my leg, my friend started approaching, I reached down to stroke him and he snapped at me. Sweet. Next dog park visit he was screeching at all the dogs, and snapping at people. On walks he would almost attack anything weird (like a trash can or a big rock that he found odd). Visited a fellow dog-nerd for an outside opinion and she was very concerned by his behavior.

    Did the trainer thing, they said euthanize or manage. I managed for a while. We moved. I was in a hotel, going out the door, and I dropped the leash. He recalled after a minute but thankfully there wasn't anyone around. It snowed. My brother was on the other side of the fence in a winter jacket and Finn freaked out and attacked the fence. Thankfully he wasn't in the fence. Friend walked in my room, thankfully he was crated, he would have eaten her. My dad walked over and Finn bit his hand. Thankfully it wasn't a bad bite. At this point I had managed to train ALL warning signs out of him, he no longer barked, screeched, or snapped. He was a pretty awesome little obedience dog. He just launched himself straight for anyone in reach with the intention of biting. Saw another trainer, she seemed hopeful until he launched himself at her and grabbed ahold of her arm (thankfully layered with jackets). She wasn't as hopeful after that. I put him to sleep the next week. Too many incidents. Too many close calls. Too many "THANKFULLY!"s. He was dangerous, quite frankly, and if a major mistake was made he would have hurt someone. If it was just me in the house and I lived somewhere remote? He would still be alive.

    I wholeheartedly believe you could probably manage Bamm. Crate/rotate..he could be in a bedroom or an indoor pen, put him out in a fenced yard, muzzles, it would probably be OK. But, there is always the chance of a mistake, and you have to consider Bamm's personality and how he would take to the managing. I don't think either decision (management or euthanasia) is a bad option (considering you have put time and training into him). He might be fine with a baby that is part of his family and grows up. I don't quite know how you can proof that though or ever trust him.

    I think starting with a behaviorist and doing some soul searching about what you could do in your life would be a good place to start. I'm not advocating euthanasia at all (you have to live with that yourself, too, it's not easy). I'm not advocating management either. I don't really know the whole situation. Good luck though, I hope you can work it out.
     

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