Dealing with Bamm and kids

Discussion in 'Dogs - General Dog Chat' started by skittledoo, May 8, 2013.

  1. Danefied

    Danefied New Member

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    Meh... that's another "there is no black and white, hard and fast rules".
    I had a c-section and felt like a train wreck the first day, was mucking stalls the 3rd day. The 4th day we had an ice storm and I was trying to bring horses in and one reared and I thought I had ripped everything in my gut, but I was fine. I am in NO way recommending this to anyone, just saying experiences differ.
     
  2. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    I really think it is valid to say she'll be exhausted and no one should have to, nor really wants to, balance other things right after a baby but many do. I wouldn't weaken Amber before she gets there, only she can judge what she can handle and I guarantee it will be more than she thinks it is.
     
  3. JacksonsMom

    JacksonsMom Active Member

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    I posted like a bagillion pages ago, but I actually kind of completely forgot about my childhood German Shepherd, Sadie.

    She was an extremely unstable dog. My dad got her for me when I was 10yrs old so we bonded. And that was the problem... she became SO protective of me. By the time she was 3, she had bitten (that I can recall) my step-mom's father, one of my close friends, and two of my dads friends. And last but not least, at 4yrs old, she attacked a man who came onto our property to check the oil in our house.

    All of these were our fault. For the most part, we managed very well, but I forget sometimes how difficult it really was living with her. Any time we knew someone was coming over, we finally started locking her up in the bedroom, but well... people are stupid. When she bit my dads friend, it was because he claimed "every dog loves me" and decided to let her out. He reached out to pet her and she bit (but let go quickly). That was forgiven. My stepmoms father once went into a bedroom where he did not know she was and she got him, but he closed the door quickly enough to not have too much damage. My friend, who was 13 at the time, was being obnoxious and jumping up and down on my bed and Sadie went after her. The last time, she was off leash in an unfenced yard and we did not know the service man was coming to our house. She full on attacked him, puncture wounds, etc, and he had to call AC since he was on the job. They put her to sleep that day. I think they basically told my dad that he was obviously getting cited or whatever, and she would now have a bite record, and if it happened again, there'd be huge fines and a whole mess.

    But my dad being the kind of person he was, wouldn't have put her down had that not happened. And he would've continued living the way we did.

    But with all that said, my brother Camron was born about 8 months before she was put to sleep... we honestly never even worried about it. She never cared at all about the new baby and if anything, was very protective of him. So that was the main thing we were worried about -- we would put her away when visitors came over because we did not want her thinking they were harming the baby.

    But it WAS very stressful from what I remember.
     
  4. Dogdragoness

    Dogdragoness Happy Spring!!!!

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    Yes, generally speaking ... People who work with horses are as a whole tougher then the average person ;). Not claiming to onow for sure lf course ... But I am sure just like every person is different, not all pregnancies or birthing/ post birth experiences are created equal either.
     
  5. stafinois

    stafinois Professional Nerd

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    Can i just say I hate the term "unstable"? It means very little and is often applied to dogs that are actually very predictable. I don't consider that unstable. We may as well be using the term "crazy". I've yet to see a dog that is truly unpredictable. Perhaps they exist. I've seen many labeled as such that practically took out an ad in the paper warning that they were going to bite, but nobody read it. I don't like to even attempt to diagnose described behavior as I've often seen with my own eyes that what is being described and what is actually happening are so very different. Hence why I don't comment in behavior threads often.

    Bamm needs to be seen by a behaviorist in person. If they use the term "unstable" they are not a behaviorist or a scientist. We need to answer the question of why before we can proceed in any direction. As both Adrianne and I both mentioned, my nasty pants of a dog was amazing with my kid. It can go either way, and nobody on the Internet can begin to guess how it will.
     
  6. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    Where is that clapping emoticon when you need it?
     
  7. Picklepaige

    Picklepaige Active Member

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  8. milos_mommy

    milos_mommy Active Member

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    Yes...and I think many people in this thread who are suggesting that a dog that has bitten or may bite isn't necessarily more of a danger, or less of a good pet, than a dog that won't ever bite, are recounting bites they've witnessed or bites they received as children, that never did any serious or permanent damage and didn't escalate without intervention.

    It does seem unreasonable for someone to say "No dog who's ever bitten or who might bite should be allowed in a household with children".

    It seems just as unreasonable for someone to look at a dog with a bite history that is with multiple bites, serious bites, and bites that have continually been unpredictable for an owner, and say "lots of dogs bite kids, but they're still good family dogs, so maybe he'll be fine around your child".
     
  9. stafinois

    stafinois Professional Nerd

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    That would have been Harry in less capable hands. I could read him like a book, but a lot of people don't have that ability. He got in a couple of live bites with people who didn't take NO TRESPASSING seriously. And, he was damned good with my kid.

    That's why I'm saying this Internet Quarterbacking is pointless. He needs to be evaluated by a professional, preferably a board certified behaviorist.
     
  10. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    Again, a fantastic post from someone with experience. Thank you for speaking up.
     
  11. sparks19

    sparks19 I'd rather be at Disney

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    Amber... You do what you feel is necessary when the time comes. YOU know Bamm and we are all just going by what you post. NONE of us are experts in your dog.

    I have had dogs and been around dogs my whole life and never been truly bitten... EVER.... but that is not a method to diagnose your dog.

    If Beezer or Belle bit Hannah... they are gone and I really don't care what anyone has to say about that. they aren't liable for my daughters well being... I am. That being said she is not interested in the dogs. She doesn't mess with them and has never been allowed to mistreat them IE: crawl on them, pull their ears/tails, etc. She just doesn't do it and never has. BUT I also fully admit I a NOT the home for them if they decide that simple movements are reason to strike. I am not behaviourist dog owner who can handle everything.

    Belle could probably be reliably rehomed and be happy and stable... although I certainly don't expect a bite from her ever. Beezer... there are factors. I dont' expect a bite from him either but if he ever became unpredictable TO ME (as NON super human dog owner)... he couldn't handle a rehoming again. He also couldn't handle a life of being banished to another room or crate. I would euth him as it would be best for him.

    Death is not always the worst case scenario.
     
  12. Applebear

    Applebear New Member

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    Don't have anything to add, as I'm sure it's been covered. Just wanted to wish you lots of luck and a bit of support. I have PCOS too, and it is very difficult. If you haven't all ready, look into Metformin [it can actually increase fertility and is used to help treat PCOS].

    Anyhow, know this is a bit off topic but just wanted to let you know you're not alone. Good luck with everything, including Bamm...really hope it works out.
     
  13. Cardiparty

    Cardiparty New Member

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    Really? lol

    I try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, regardless of what everyone else says. I'm going to make sure I don't see your posts from now on, but just a piece of advice: people would probably take you more seriously if you worked on your "soft" skills.
     
  14. sassafras

    sassafras mushinois

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    I know people who were basically back to normal a few days after having a baby, and people who were essentially debilitated for awhile afterwards. I don't think anyone really knows what their experience is going to be like until it happens, so I think it's probably best to plan for the worst and hope for the best. Since it very well could be a factor coming home.

    And just to be clear, I'm not trying to say "oh everything will be fine la la la"... I just think things could be ok even with past bites and that the past incidents need to be analyzed and understood before deciding that the sky is falling. Maybe things will be fine and maybe they won't, but at this point it's really all just speculation.
     
  15. Dizzy

    Dizzy Sit! Good dog.

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    I wonder what amber thinks about this thread :D
     
  16. milos_mommy

    milos_mommy Active Member

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    Being able to read the dog is definitely a key factor, and I know Amber's said she can't reliable read Bamm.

    I'm not sure what the behaviorist that's evaluated Bamm's credentials are like...I guess I make the assumption when someone says "he saw a behaviorist" or "my boss is a behaviorist" that they have a master's degree in ethology at the least, and if they work as a behaviorist for a living, ARE board certified. But I guess plenty of people (illegally) refer to themselves as a behaviorist when doing business, even without the education necessary for the title.

    I'd be curious to know Amber's boss's background.
     
  17. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    She posted a few pages back, she is formulating a response with an outline of Bamms bites/experiences to see if it helps her find triggers and patterns. She's been working and trialing plus it's a hard post to write, I'm sure, so it may take some time.
     
  18. sassafras

    sassafras mushinois

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    Well regardless of their credentials I wouldn't take a person seriously if they told me my dog "had a screw loose."

    When I say behaviorist, I mean ideally a competent board certified veterinary behaviorist. Depending on the individual I would also trust a veterinarian with training and experience in behavior (there is one locally I trust very much even though she is not board certified). There are a few trainers locally I would trust but wouldn't actually call them behaviorists.
     
  19. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    Because she can't read him now does not mean she will never be able to.

    Further, behaviorists are not all created equally, just like anything. If this one has a bias against this dog, no matter the quality of their work elsewhere, I would seek a second opinion.
     
  20. milos_mommy

    milos_mommy Active Member

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    I just went back and re-read the scenario where Bamm reacted to Josh. You say he was laying down - is it possible he was sleeping? It sounds quite a bit like he may have been startled in his sleep, and got defensive, and could have been too disoriented to realize who Josh was/what was going on.

    Milo does something similar (not like he has any kind of trustworthy record of non-aggression)...but he can be totally fine if someone is coming in and out of the room or house, but after he falls asleep, if someone opens or shuts a door or goes up or down stairs or enters the room, he'll jump up barking and growling and go at them, until he realizes who it is, then he's perfectly fine.

    He doesn't often fall asleep in the common spaces - usually only in the bedrooms, but if he does need to be woken up, we have to do so really gently or from a bit of a distance.
     

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