Crossbreeding
- Thread starter coreyk
- Start date
Hey guys everyone has their own opinion and I have mine and I have the right to have mine and by the way for all of those who don't think that I don't care about my dogs you don't know me and yes I do have a health guarantee on my dogs and haven't had to replace or refund a puppy yet.
Also I do make money on these dogs. I'm sure you do to LabBreeder but that doesn't mean that I don't care for the dogs. Another thing to learn in life is don't judge a person without knowing them. OVER AND OUT ALL I WANTED WAS AN OPINION AND I GOT IT THANKS JUST DONT JUDGE ANYONE UNTIL YOU KNOW THEM AND REMEMBER EVERYONE HAS THE RIGHT TO DO WHATEVER THEY WANT UNDER THE LAWS AND CROSSBREEDING IS UNDER THE LAWS SO IM GOING TO KEEP DOING IT........... LOOK FOR CAVA-PEKES IN THE FUTURE AND NO THEY WONT GO TO SHELTERS I WOULD RATHER HAVE 200 DOGS LIVING IN MY HOUSE THAN HAVING THEM IN SHELTERS SO DONT THINK IM JUST OUT FOR THE MONEY
Also I do make money on these dogs. I'm sure you do to LabBreeder but that doesn't mean that I don't care for the dogs. Another thing to learn in life is don't judge a person without knowing them. OVER AND OUT ALL I WANTED WAS AN OPINION AND I GOT IT THANKS JUST DONT JUDGE ANYONE UNTIL YOU KNOW THEM AND REMEMBER EVERYONE HAS THE RIGHT TO DO WHATEVER THEY WANT UNDER THE LAWS AND CROSSBREEDING IS UNDER THE LAWS SO IM GOING TO KEEP DOING IT........... LOOK FOR CAVA-PEKES IN THE FUTURE AND NO THEY WONT GO TO SHELTERS I WOULD RATHER HAVE 200 DOGS LIVING IN MY HOUSE THAN HAVING THEM IN SHELTERS SO DONT THINK IM JUST OUT FOR THE MONEY
L
First of all I don't make money because I don't breed yet. I wouldn't make money anyhow (when I do start) because of all the vet visits.
WHY would you breed mixes then say you'd keep them if it meant they'd go into a shelter? Why not rescue from shelters in the first place instead of mixing breeds (creating mutts) for profit? A good breeder doesn't make money and are lucky if they break even. There are vet visits, dewormers, heart worm preventatives, vaccines, socializing, training, preparing for whelping, etc. You can't make money unless you charge an arm and a leg for your mixes (which makes you a byb). What kind of health guarantee do you have anyways? 1 year (not good enough), 2 years (still on the verge), how about lifetime? Do you microchip the pups before they leave so you can track where they are? Do you check out potential buyers or just let them go to whomever can pay.
It's people like you that contribute to poor genes, mixed breed overpopulation and taking advantage of naive people that are willing to believe a "cava-pek" is a "breed" (not).
So, so sad.
WHY would you breed mixes then say you'd keep them if it meant they'd go into a shelter? Why not rescue from shelters in the first place instead of mixing breeds (creating mutts) for profit? A good breeder doesn't make money and are lucky if they break even. There are vet visits, dewormers, heart worm preventatives, vaccines, socializing, training, preparing for whelping, etc. You can't make money unless you charge an arm and a leg for your mixes (which makes you a byb). What kind of health guarantee do you have anyways? 1 year (not good enough), 2 years (still on the verge), how about lifetime? Do you microchip the pups before they leave so you can track where they are? Do you check out potential buyers or just let them go to whomever can pay.
It's people like you that contribute to poor genes, mixed breed overpopulation and taking advantage of naive people that are willing to believe a "cava-pek" is a "breed" (not).
So, so sad.
L
Check out a REAL Pekignese breeder. These people produce Champions - what do you produce? Oh yeah, LOL, mixes.
http://www.geocities.com/claymorepks/about.html
http://www.cavalierhealth.org/
Heart mitral valve disease (MVD) is a terminal illness which afflicts over half of all Cavalier King Charles Spaniels by the age of 5 years and nearly all Cavaliers by age 10 years, should they survive that long.
Syringomyelia (SM) is reported to be "very widespread" in the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel breed. Syringomyelia is a disorder of the brain and spinal cord, which may cause severe head and neck pain and possible paralysis.
Hip dysplasia reportedly afflicts up to one out of every three Cavalier King Charles Spaniels.
Brachycephalic Airway Obstruction Syndrome (BAOS) -
Elongated soft palates, stenotic nares, everted laryngeal saccules, and laryngeal collapse are inherited developmental defects in the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel, due to the size and shape of its head.
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/pekingese.htm
Pekingese tend to catch colds very easily. Very difficult births. Prone to herniated disks and dislocated kneecaps. Trichaiasis (lashes growing inwards toward the eyeballs). Breathing problems and heart problems are also common
http://www.geocities.com/claymorepks/about.html
http://www.cavalierhealth.org/
Heart mitral valve disease (MVD) is a terminal illness which afflicts over half of all Cavalier King Charles Spaniels by the age of 5 years and nearly all Cavaliers by age 10 years, should they survive that long.
Syringomyelia (SM) is reported to be "very widespread" in the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel breed. Syringomyelia is a disorder of the brain and spinal cord, which may cause severe head and neck pain and possible paralysis.
Hip dysplasia reportedly afflicts up to one out of every three Cavalier King Charles Spaniels.
Brachycephalic Airway Obstruction Syndrome (BAOS) -
Elongated soft palates, stenotic nares, everted laryngeal saccules, and laryngeal collapse are inherited developmental defects in the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel, due to the size and shape of its head.
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/pekingese.htm
Pekingese tend to catch colds very easily. Very difficult births. Prone to herniated disks and dislocated kneecaps. Trichaiasis (lashes growing inwards toward the eyeballs). Breathing problems and heart problems are also common
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S
To the OP. You said that you have a health guarantee but no one ever phones you to tell you if something has gone wrong. You also say that your dogs don't go to shelters. How do you know where they end up????? I bet you don't check up on your dogs at all after they go to homes. You take that poor persons money and are happy you are making money off of selling mutts to people that don't know any better. Then if they don't call you to let you know how the pups are doing thats great WTF do you care right? You got your money and now you could give a SH!T less what happens to those dogs.
YOU ARE A BACK YARD BREEDER just like all of them that we post here to warn people.
IT IS NOT OK TO BREED CROSSBRED DOGS!!!!! You are only adding to the overpopulations problem!!!!
YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT THE DOGS!!! If you did you wouldn't breed them JUST FOR THE HELL OF IT!
Aaaaannnnnnddddd another thing that makes me a little angry is that you said that you don't know if the owners of your puppies S/N them. I am sorry to say that a lot of those people will end up doing the same thing you are doing! Killing innocent lives!!!! The more dogs you produce, the more those people that you sell them to can produce, and it goes on and on. If you cared for these puppies like you say you do you would at least get them S/N before they leave your home!
By the way when the OP said that they get health checks done they were probably thinking of the (maybe) yearly health check that there dogs might get!
I am sorry for getting so annoyed but its people like the OP that cause the overpopulation problem. It needs to stop and this person doesnt think they are doing anything wrong when we have tried to explain to them why it is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YOU ARE A BACK YARD BREEDER just like all of them that we post here to warn people.
IT IS NOT OK TO BREED CROSSBRED DOGS!!!!! You are only adding to the overpopulations problem!!!!
YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT THE DOGS!!! If you did you wouldn't breed them JUST FOR THE HELL OF IT!
Aaaaannnnnnddddd another thing that makes me a little angry is that you said that you don't know if the owners of your puppies S/N them. I am sorry to say that a lot of those people will end up doing the same thing you are doing! Killing innocent lives!!!! The more dogs you produce, the more those people that you sell them to can produce, and it goes on and on. If you cared for these puppies like you say you do you would at least get them S/N before they leave your home!
By the way when the OP said that they get health checks done they were probably thinking of the (maybe) yearly health check that there dogs might get!
I am sorry for getting so annoyed but its people like the OP that cause the overpopulation problem. It needs to stop and this person doesnt think they are doing anything wrong when we have tried to explain to them why it is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why breed a crossbreed for anyway.... Why not stay with a purebred dog... There are way tooooooooooooooo many mutts in this world as it is... Dogs that are unwanted and uncared for... For the LOVE OF A DOG IS BETTER THAN ANYTHING IN THE WORLD...... I think you should stay with purebreds and breed out as many of the problems as you can.... JMO.
L
I wouldn't recommend "breeding out" the problems unless someone knows what they are doing. This person obviously does not.
You can never totally "breed out" a genetic problem. Each breed is predisposed towards certain defects. Not all defects are seen, but most can be tested for. If you have a dog with hereditary defects DO NOT breed it. Spay/Neuter and keep it as a pet and give it the proper medical care.
Only breed healthy, sound temperament, tested, proven purebreeds.
You can never totally "breed out" a genetic problem. Each breed is predisposed towards certain defects. Not all defects are seen, but most can be tested for. If you have a dog with hereditary defects DO NOT breed it. Spay/Neuter and keep it as a pet and give it the proper medical care.
Only breed healthy, sound temperament, tested, proven purebreeds.
I see...
I think someone said the same for puggles- you get a dog that wants to run all day but has breathing problems.
Kinda sad to me- the designer dog craze just doesn't seem like its a good idea. There are so many dogs in shelters.
Even designer dogs end up in shelters- they end up just like every other sad mutt in need of a home.
I've learned alot about breeding in the past year, but mostly what I've realized is the more I know, the more I need to know.
I definately think its not something that should ever be taken lightly.
When you think about it, breeders play "God" with their specific breed(s). Any genetic health problems that come out in the puppies are the breeder's fault, whether they see it that way or not.
I think someone said the same for puggles- you get a dog that wants to run all day but has breathing problems.
Kinda sad to me- the designer dog craze just doesn't seem like its a good idea. There are so many dogs in shelters.
Even designer dogs end up in shelters- they end up just like every other sad mutt in need of a home.
I've learned alot about breeding in the past year, but mostly what I've realized is the more I know, the more I need to know.
I definately think its not something that should ever be taken lightly.
When you think about it, breeders play "God" with their specific breed(s). Any genetic health problems that come out in the puppies are the breeder's fault, whether they see it that way or not.
Breed if you have healthy , tested registered dogs and can afford it and have a waiting list . But don't mix breeds !!! Why do you want a litter of mutts when you have pure breds ?? Leave the money factor out of it !!! Don't add to what " designer " breeders are doing !!! Unless they are 3rd generation ( takes about 10 years ) it's called BACK YARD BREEDING!!
This is getting exhausting...why the sudden influx of irresponsible breeders as of late?
As for what I think of "Cava-Pekes."
1) I think the name sounds like a cool new catch phrase to use when we dissect and inspect vena cavas in the cadaver lab. Thanks!
2) I think they probably look like every other designer dog. An animal that is cute as a puppy, and then matures into a rather unsound looking pet, that is attractive only in the vaguest sense. If I'm looking for a mix, I'd much rather head to the humane society, and forgo the sales pitch about how they're supposedly healthier than purebred dogs.
Riiiiiight, a first generation cross from two animals that are already unsound, poor representatives of their breeds is going to be healthier than a dog from health-tested purebreds. Purebreds whose breeder likely knows their pedigrees (and any health concerns of the dogs within it), better than their own family tree.
Face it- great breeders would rather quit breeding all together than knowingly give someone a puppy from valuable lines, who would just turn around and use it in a cross-breeding program. I've heard more than one person say that obtaining a puppy from the breeder I went to was akin to trying to adopt a child. And it should be this way for EVERY great breeder.
This doesn't mean I'm completely against breeding mixes, or creating new breeds. I just like to see it done WELL, and there are VERY few people that can.
Alaskan Huskies are a fantastic example of mixed breeding done RIGHT. If you watch the Iditarod, the dogs winning aren't purebred Sibes at all. They're a lightning-fast mix of Siberian, sighthound, and I've even heard of a little BC being thrown in from time to time. But the breeders are incredibly careful. These animals HAVE to be sound- they could not race thousands of miles at high speeds and NOT be. You can BET they aren't falling back on the myth that "hybrid vigor" will take care of the hips. (Especially since a hybrid is a mix between two different SPECIES...not two different breeds of dog). The animals hips ARE tested. Dogs that don't cut it in the racing world are placed in pet homes, but only after very careful evaluations of potential owners. These dogs are not for the average Joe, and their breeders realize that. Just having the purchase price is not enough, as it generally is for anyone mixing breeds for no other reason than that they are cute. (AKA- they make money).
The Silken Windhound is an extraordinarily new breed, created within my lifetime. These people, unlike the breeders of American "Labradoodles" (who have yet to set type in over 40 YEARS of breeding....and here's a hint, it's because they don't WANT to), are doing it right. The creators saw a niche for a medium sized *coated* sighthound, and set to work filling it. The early "experimental" generations were not sold at inflated prices as "Whipzois" or "Borits." People who received these dogs were told that they were mixes. The breeders created a National breed club, a studbook, and set type in an extraordinarily quick manner. They are already holding specialty shows. Furthermore, (and this may seem incidental to some, but I think it has merit), they gave their new breed a name of it's OWN. The names "Labradoodle, " and "Cockapoo," make it hard for anyone to take these dogs seriously.
None of the good breeders I know have made money breeding. Health testing, basic care, show entry fees, care of pregnant bitches and subsequent litters, vet visits, etc. quickly eat up any "profits." Of course it's very easy to make money if you charge an arm and a leg, and then forgo doing anything that would put you in the category of responsible rather than selfish.
As for what I think of "Cava-Pekes."
1) I think the name sounds like a cool new catch phrase to use when we dissect and inspect vena cavas in the cadaver lab. Thanks!
2) I think they probably look like every other designer dog. An animal that is cute as a puppy, and then matures into a rather unsound looking pet, that is attractive only in the vaguest sense. If I'm looking for a mix, I'd much rather head to the humane society, and forgo the sales pitch about how they're supposedly healthier than purebred dogs.
Riiiiiight, a first generation cross from two animals that are already unsound, poor representatives of their breeds is going to be healthier than a dog from health-tested purebreds. Purebreds whose breeder likely knows their pedigrees (and any health concerns of the dogs within it), better than their own family tree.
Face it- great breeders would rather quit breeding all together than knowingly give someone a puppy from valuable lines, who would just turn around and use it in a cross-breeding program. I've heard more than one person say that obtaining a puppy from the breeder I went to was akin to trying to adopt a child. And it should be this way for EVERY great breeder.
This doesn't mean I'm completely against breeding mixes, or creating new breeds. I just like to see it done WELL, and there are VERY few people that can.
Alaskan Huskies are a fantastic example of mixed breeding done RIGHT. If you watch the Iditarod, the dogs winning aren't purebred Sibes at all. They're a lightning-fast mix of Siberian, sighthound, and I've even heard of a little BC being thrown in from time to time. But the breeders are incredibly careful. These animals HAVE to be sound- they could not race thousands of miles at high speeds and NOT be. You can BET they aren't falling back on the myth that "hybrid vigor" will take care of the hips. (Especially since a hybrid is a mix between two different SPECIES...not two different breeds of dog). The animals hips ARE tested. Dogs that don't cut it in the racing world are placed in pet homes, but only after very careful evaluations of potential owners. These dogs are not for the average Joe, and their breeders realize that. Just having the purchase price is not enough, as it generally is for anyone mixing breeds for no other reason than that they are cute. (AKA- they make money).
The Silken Windhound is an extraordinarily new breed, created within my lifetime. These people, unlike the breeders of American "Labradoodles" (who have yet to set type in over 40 YEARS of breeding....and here's a hint, it's because they don't WANT to), are doing it right. The creators saw a niche for a medium sized *coated* sighthound, and set to work filling it. The early "experimental" generations were not sold at inflated prices as "Whipzois" or "Borits." People who received these dogs were told that they were mixes. The breeders created a National breed club, a studbook, and set type in an extraordinarily quick manner. They are already holding specialty shows. Furthermore, (and this may seem incidental to some, but I think it has merit), they gave their new breed a name of it's OWN. The names "Labradoodle, " and "Cockapoo," make it hard for anyone to take these dogs seriously.
None of the good breeders I know have made money breeding. Health testing, basic care, show entry fees, care of pregnant bitches and subsequent litters, vet visits, etc. quickly eat up any "profits." Of course it's very easy to make money if you charge an arm and a leg, and then forgo doing anything that would put you in the category of responsible rather than selfish.
I deffinately don;t find anything wrong with breeding mixes so long as they have a purpose. Tempura''s example of the Alaskan Husky is one I often give because it;s true. A random "oops" litter of a mix between a Siberian Husky and the Alaskan Malamute from down the street does NOT make an Alaskan Huskies. A dog can only be deemed an Alaskan Husky if it was specifically bred to fill the role of a sled dog. Any other way and it;s simply a mutt. I myself as of late have been researching and consulting experts in the field of sledding and breeding to compose a mixture to create a fanatastic sled dog. I won;t be trying the mix anytime soon and am unsure if I will ever get up to trying it but if I do these dogs will be WORKING SLED DOGS with a purpose. All offspring will be either kept by me or sold to working homes. They won;t be sold as solely pets because I already know they will not do good there. Prospective homes will have to keep the dog working in some way because of all the energy and drive and intensity these guys will have, or their home will literally be shredded. Also I''m not breeding for overweight couch potatoes. I already know that part of the agreement for buyers will be that if for some reason they can''t continue meeting the excercise requirements the dog will be returned.
A friend of mine in Brazil is breeding bandogges and they have a purpose. He has been breeding this mix for years and has finally become satisfied with what he''s produced, and is now breeding true. His intentions were never to make money, instead was to make a working dog that suits the way his ranch operates and that is exactly what he has produced.
A person from my church is breeding F2 cockapoos "because she can, people want them, and they''re cute" this i do not agree with.
A friend of mine in Brazil is breeding bandogges and they have a purpose. He has been breeding this mix for years and has finally become satisfied with what he''s produced, and is now breeding true. His intentions were never to make money, instead was to make a working dog that suits the way his ranch operates and that is exactly what he has produced.
A person from my church is breeding F2 cockapoos "because she can, people want them, and they''re cute" this i do not agree with.