Cross Breeding to Save a breed- Chinook

Discussion in 'The Dog Breeds' started by planet molosser, Oct 27, 2006.

  1. planet molosser

    planet molosser CASSA

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    This is a carry over from the when does a mutt become a breed?
    They tell you what they need to outcross and how many generations they need to call it a Chinook.

    This breed had to open the stud books to help save their breed.
    Not to be confused with Designer breeds or cross breeding and selling as purebreds. No one is lied too they do NOT reg the F1 Crosses as purebreds

    CrossBreeding Program Goal

    The Chinook Owners Association (COA) CrossBreeding Program is a long-term program developed in partnership with the United Kennel Club, Inc. (UKC) to add genetic diversity and quality to the current Chinook gene pool by developing Chinook cross lines that lead to progeny that attain UKC registration status as a Chinook.

    Health evaluations are a vital component of this program, assessing the health of each litter and the breeding potential Chinooks. The CrossBreeding Program recently added descriptions about how PennHIP evaluations are used within the Program. The COA CrossBreeding Program description and requirements may be viewed in a
    pdf document by clicking on the following link

    Overview of Process
    The breeding method employed during this process is to begin by breeding a non-Chinook (dog zero) with a full Chinook. "Dog zero" must meet the following four criteria: It must have a four generation traceable lineage with no known hereditary health faults. It must be a purebred dog selected from a breed purported to have contributed to the development of the Chinook, be a working breed of dog or be an unregistered working dog with a documented four generation pedigree. If purebred, it must possess a registration number from a recognized registry. It must be a good specimen of its breed and possess no major faults. Acceptable progeny of the first breeding will then mate with a full Chinook. This process is continued until the fourth generation. Fourth generation Crossbred Chinooks are then eligible for consideration as purebred Chinooks.

    http://www.chinook.org/xbreeding.htm


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  2. whatszmatter

    whatszmatter Guest

    There is a huge difference in opening stud books and crossbreading to improve the health, working ability, etc of an animal and putting two dogs together and making rediculous claims about allergies, temperment, ability, etc, that are completely unfounded and untrue for the most part. Personally I think at some point most breeds will need to open things up a bit to get some "new" blood infused with the breed. But it won't be done haphazardly or without a goal in mind.
     
  3. planet molosser

    planet molosser CASSA

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    Agree that is why I posted it we spend so much time on the 'designer breeds" .
    We often dont speak of correct cross breeding and what makes a breed.

    Its sad when the Designer breeds are listed as "Breeds" in shelters or on websites and now even books I think. :( Giving them some sort of acceptance.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2006
  4. lakotasong

    lakotasong Sled Dog Guardian

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    Windy's double grandfather, also Tanner's grandfather (on father's side) is a stocky, barrel chested, red Siberian. He has poor coat, horrid build, and poor performance in harness. His pedigree is half show, and half total utter BYB. He was a MAJOR stud dog used in the Chinook outcross program. Because of his lack of quality and how highly they all hold him, I honestly don't know what to think of the Chinook folks. For the most part I like the concept behind the program and the breed, but the strong use of this particular stud dog just baffles me.
     
  5. planet molosser

    planet molosser CASSA

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    Wow like to learn since I will be judging this breed one day pls feel free to add any other infor you do get..
     
  6. lakotasong

    lakotasong Sled Dog Guardian

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    I PM'd you the breeder and dog information.
     
  7. planet molosser

    planet molosser CASSA

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    Thanks just getting it now VERY VERY interesting you do know your lines....

    I am printing it off the PM box is too small for my aging eyes :(
     
  8. Zoom

    Zoom Twin 2.0

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    Oh, how I wish Love4Pits was still on...she's a Chinook breeder and could give you sooo much information...she's also a professional Husky breeder/musher, so if a dog sucked, she would know it and not use it to build up another breed.
     
  9. lakotasong

    lakotasong Sled Dog Guardian

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    Zoom,

    Unfortunately, some people capitalize on rare breeds to make a buck and boost their ego. Such is the case of the woman I know.
     
  10. Zoom

    Zoom Twin 2.0

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    From what I remember her saying, she is breeding to A) help restore a fading breed and B)use them in her sled teams. Money is not her thing at all.

    Renee can provide more information, she knew her longer than I did.
     
  11. Boreayl_Chinooks

    Boreayl_Chinooks New Member

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    To provide some history for folks interested in learning about the Chinook breed and trying to understand this aspect, there is in fact a parent club sanctioned crossbreeding program which can be found on the COA website at www.chinook.org. The pretense is that the Chinook is an extremely inbred breed descending through a genetic bottleneck of just 2 dogs in the late 1920's followed by a succession of several kennels maintaining exclusive breeding rights up to a second genetic bottleneck through just 4 dogs prior to the 1981 rescue. Not everyone has agreed with this approach, but it is strongly supported by the vast majority of UKC breeders and geneticists among our ranks, particularly when one considers the fertility and genetic health issues we have had and continue to work through.

    Currently, there are 3 parent club approved Chinook cross lines in existence, all of which were initiated 10-15 years ago. One of these cross lines originated from a red/white Siberian Husky (Maverick). As Maverick's owner, I can attest that the dog was hardly backyard bred and the issues a certain Chazhound member has have more to do with sour grapes over mushing than anything else. Maverick's pedigree can be seen at http://www.pawvillage.com/pedigree/dynprofile.asp?ID=AWSH18984. He was a working sled dog and the son of a BISS specialty winner out of a long line of champions and sled dogs. The other two cross lines originated from working sled dogs commonly referred to as Alaskan Huskies, not unlike what the Chinook was prior to becoming a distinct breed.

    To date, there are approximately 80 UKC purebred Chinooks descended from a handful of cross-to-pure graduates that can be seen on the COA website. Speaking only of the Maverick cross line, 20% of UKC Top 10 conformation Chinooks over the last 5 years descend from him and OFA stats show a substantial increase in the number of OFA Excellents attributable to this line even though they represent a minority in the overall genepool. The reason a number of breeders are incorporating these dogs is because they feel it has been beneficial for the breed and their breeding programs. Other breeders choose to work with different lines which is equally important for diversity. I personally own 2 Chinook descendants of Maverick and likely will utilize one of the other cross lines at some point. However, I also own and/or maintain breeding interest in 6 Chinooks with pedigrees that I have deliberately kept free of all crossbreeding, including several non-program dogs of questionable purity who entered the studbooks based on representation by their breeders/owners. I'm sure there are other Chinook breeders who would be willing to discuss their perspectives as well.

    It's a good case study for any rare breed considering the pros and cons of opening its studbook and a bold decision on the part of the United Kennel Club. It's also clearly NOT an attempt to produce so-called designer mutts or dogs that deviate as the goal is a genetically healthier dog in complete conformance to the breed standard.

    Happy Holidays!
    Debbie
     
  12. planet molosser

    planet molosser CASSA

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    Debbie thanks for the post.

    I enjoy learning about these breeds very much.

    :)
     
  13. HoundedByHounds

    HoundedByHounds Oh, it's *you*

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    I think what the Basenji people did to save their breed was amazing...they might well have been crossbreeding since they had to pick their dogs via phenotype...but they did what they had to and IMO they did it RIGHT.

    Heavy use on a single stud is bad news for ANY breed, BTW.
     
  14. Boreayl_Chinooks

    Boreayl_Chinooks New Member

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    This is another site that is well worth reading:
    http://www.dalmatianheritage.com/index.htm

    Sadly, although the program was highly succussful, I believe the AKC eventually revoked the registrations of the few dogs that were accepted into its studbooks with normal uric acid metabolism. It makes no sense to me that an organization supposedly dedicated to protecting dogs would instead opt for a genepool that is 100% pure for a hereditary defect!

    Debbie
     

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