Cropping Ears?

[Pops2]

the ONLY "functional" purpose for cropping (especially the larger show & pet crops) is to make the dog LOOK more intimidating. the only remotely functional crop is the very short ones that used to be put on pit dogs. in a protection dog it is pointless as grabbing the ears only means the dog will get a sizable chunk of your inner forearm.
if cropping really had a function all the old gamekeepers dogs would have been cropped & most weren't.
once again NOT AT ALL opposed to cropping, just believe in truth in advertising.

 

[ACooper]

The guy told my brother that it had to be done between 6 to 12 weeks. He's (the puppy) coming home at the age of 12 weeks. I really have no idea if he's a good one or not. To me, all of that is too complicated. That's why I've never bought a dog. Bella, I adopted. Maybe when I feel a little more secure about my education on dogs, I'll go and buy a pure breed from a good breeder.

But this is alot of information and it's gotten me thinking alot. I don't know what I stand on it but it's def. interesting.

It CAN be very complicated to sort out good breeders from bad ones, People who HAVE been around the block a few times don't always agree with each other on that subject, LOL, so don't feel so bad by saying it's a lot to learn and take in.

My honest, from the heart opinion? This guy your brother is thinking of buying from is most likely NOT a good source to buy from. I would have your brother ask him what health tests (if any) he had done on the parents before they were bred. That is a good place to start. This does not mean the dogs have been to the vet for a check up, up to date on shots, etc.

This means more extensive testing like for HIP DYSPLASIA, HYPOTHYROIDISM, vWd (VON WILLEBRAND'S DISEASE), eye testing for PROGRESSIVE RETINAL ATROPHY, Z factor (albinoism) . All these things can be inherited and can be screened out if the tests are performed to eliminate affected dogs from the breeding program.

If this guy hasn't done any health testing beyond getting the dogs a check up at the vet (and some don't even do THAT much) then he is not someone your brother should be considering buying from.

 

[mi_bella]

It CAN be very complicated to sort out good breeders from bad ones, People who HAVE been around the block a few times don't always agree with each other on that subject, LOL, so don't feel so bad by saying it's a lot to learn and take in.

My honest, from the heart opinion? This guy your brother is thinking of buying from is most likely NOT a good source to buy from. I would have your brother ask him what health tests (if any) he had done on the parents before they were bred. That is a good place to start. This does not mean the dogs have been to the vet for a check up, up to date on shots, etc.

This means more extensive testing like for HIP DYSPLASIA, HYPOTHYROIDISM, vWd (VON WILLEBRAND'S DISEASE), eye testing for PROGRESSIVE RETINAL ATROPHY, Z factor (albinoism) . All these things can be inherited and can be screened out if the tests are performed to eliminate affected dogs from the breeding program.

If this guy hasn't done any health testing beyond getting the dogs a check up at the vet (and some don't even do THAT much) then he is not someone your brother should be considering buying from.

I will ask him. I don't know that he'll listen to me or if that would stop him from buying, but it's worth giving him that information anyways.

If, lets say, the puppy did get tested for all of that and on some of the tests, like hip dysplasia, he failed would that mean that he won't make a good pet? He will be neutered so passing it on to future generations isn't a factor.

 

[Pops2]

nevermind

 

[MPP]

If this guy hasn't done any health testing beyond getting the dogs a check up at the vet (and some don't even do THAT much) then he is not someone your brother should be considering buying from.

And ESPECIALLY not a doberman, since health problems, unfortunately, are much too prevalent in that breed. This is not a situation where "I just fell in love with that puppy" is a wise idea.

 

[ACooper]

I will ask him. I don't know that he'll listen to me or if that would stop him from buying, but it's worth giving him that information anyways.

If, lets say, the puppy did get tested for all of that and on some of the tests, like hip dysplasia, he failed would that mean that he won't make a good pet? He will be neutered so passing it on to future generations isn't a factor.

It's not the puppy that should be tested right now.......it's the PARENTS of the puppies who should be tested BEFORE they are parents.

And it's not just about neutering him so HE doesn't pass those things on, if the parents weren't tested........then those things could've been passed on to your brother's potential puppy. Which could very well mean TONS of health problems, TONS of money spent at the vet for sick pup, and TONS of hurt for your brother AND the pup

Now, LOTS of those things that *could* be passed on to the pup might not even show up for quite a few years........then BAM, your brother has a very sick dog whom he loves very much, and it all might have been prevented from a few simple tests on the parents BEFORE they were bred.

So the point that MOST people are trying to get out there is, DON'T support these people who breed willy nilly, who don't care about future generations of these dogs, who don't care how much pain and suffering you and your dog are going to go through in a few years...........because hey, they already have your money, it's YOUR problem now.

And this guy could give your brother a "money back guarantee" that lasts for a year or two.........but as stated, most of these problems won't even show up until after that, and the guy probably knows that so he isn't risking ANYTHING to 'stand behind his product' because it will be expired before then

 

[Laurelin]

I will ask him. I don't know that he'll listen to me or if that would stop him from buying, but it's worth giving him that information anyways.

If, lets say, the puppy did get tested for all of that and on some of the tests, like hip dysplasia, he failed would that mean that he won't make a good pet? He will be neutered so passing it on to future generations isn't a factor.

Not necessarily. You're never guaranteed with dogs a dog from a good breeder could have problems and a dog from a bad breeder could be completely healthy. However, the doberman is a very unhealthy breed overall. I would want to know extensive health history on both the sire and dam if I were getting a dobe. (that's more than just 'the vet said he/she was healthy') things like von Willebrand's can be tested for so you are really stacking the odds that you won't have to deal with it.

From the wiki page just to give an idea about how important this is:

On average, Doberman Pinschers live about 10–14 years, and they frequently suffer from a number of health concerns. Common serious health problems include dilated cardiomyopathy,[25][26] cervical vertebral instability (CVI),[27] von Willebrand's disease (a bleeding disorder for which there is genetic testing)[25], and prostatic disease.[28] Less serious common health concerns include hypothyroidism and hip dysplasia.
Studies have shown that the Doberman Pinscher suffers from prostatic diseases, (such as bacterial prostatiti, prostatic cysts, prostatic adenocarcinoma, and benign hyperplasia) more than any other breed. Neutering can significantly reduce these risks (see Dog for information).
Dilated cardiomyopathy is a major cause of death in Doberman Pinschers. This disease affects Dobermans more than any other breed.[29] Nearly 40% of DCM diagnoses are for Doberman Pinschers, followed by German Shepherds at 13%.[29]

also check out this page: DPCA | The Doberman | Health

 

[mi_bella]

It's not the puppy that should be tested right now.......it's the PARENTS of the puppies who should be tested BEFORE they are parents.

And it's not just about neutering him so HE doesn't pass those things on, if the parents weren't tested........then those things could've been passed on to your brother's potential puppy. Which could very well mean TONS of health problems, TONS of money spent at the vet for sick pup, and TONS of hurt for your brother AND the pup

Now, LOTS of those things that *could* be passed on to the pup might not even show up for quite a few years........then BAM, your brother has a very sick dog whom he loves very much, and it all might have been prevented from a few simple tests on the parents BEFORE they were bred.

So the point that MOST people are trying to get out there is, DON'T support these people who breed willy nilly, who don't care about future generations of these dogs, who don't care how much pain and suffering you and your dog are going to go through in a few years...........because hey, they already have your money, it's YOUR problem now.

And this guy could give your brother a "money back guarantee" that lasts for a year or two.........but as stated, most of these problems won't even show up until after that, and the guy probably knows that so he isn't risking ANYTHING to 'stand behind his product' because it will be expired before then

Oh, I see. That makes alot of sense, actually. I'll have to ask because I really had no idea. I mean, I knew they had to pass certain tests but not too much else.

Thanks for the information. One more question, though, are the doberman's that are bred (responsibly) suppose to be completely clear of all those problems? Or is it normal for the dog to have some problems? I don't know if that makes any sense.

What I'm trying to say is, if the breeder tells me (or any buyers), yeah the female has the gene for xdisease but that's common in doberman's and has been unable to be ruled out completely... is that a valueable excuse? Or should you demand parents that are 100% free of genetic problems.

 

[MPP]

Good grief. I knew there were health concerns in the breed, but I never expected a list like that!

Why would anyone ever get a dobe? I mean, just because they're beautiful and elegant and graceful and intelligent and alert and athletic and loving and strong and protective and, oh, did I mention beautiful?

 

[mi_bella]

Good grief. I knew there were health concerns in the breed, but I never expected a list like that!

Why would anyone ever get a dobe? I mean, just because they're beautiful and elegant and graceful and intelligent and alert and athletic and loving and strong and protective and, oh, did I mention beautiful?

haha so true.

What I love about the doberman the most, is their personality. It's really the one dog that has impressed me the most. It's not the breed for me. I couldn't keep up with it. But I'll always be in awe of it.

 

[Fran101]

Reason number 1 for getting a dobie.. right here.
YouTube - Doberman Attack

I love this video lol

 

[ACooper]

Oh, I see. That makes alot of sense, actually. I'll have to ask because I really had no idea. I mean, I knew they had to pass certain tests but not too much else.

Thanks for the information. One more question, though, are the doberman's that are bred (responsibly) suppose to be completely clear of all those problems? Or is it normal for the dog to have some problems? I don't know if that makes any sense.

What I'm trying to say is, if the breeder tells me (or any buyers), yeah the female has the gene for xdisease but that's common in doberman's and has been unable to be ruled out completely... is that a valueable excuse? Or should you demand parents that are 100% free of genetic problems.

There is noway to make ANY dog (dobe or otherwise) 100% free of genetic problems........though it would be lovely wouldn't it? LOL

There are some health issues a dobe suffers that are unable to be successfully tested for. Dilated Cardiomyopathy is one that springs to mind........it is a heart issue and there is no way (that I know of) to screen for this. Cancer of course is another.......there are so many ways and forms, who knows what brings it on.

And while the other areas which CAN be screened will cut out LOTS of problems for future puppies, I doubt anyone can say the pups will have 100% certainty for being all clear. But it's a start, and better than NOT trying to screen out the problems in advance.

Oh and one more thing, LOL.........If your brother is actually going to ASK this guy about the health testing, he does not have to go SOLELY on this guys word that it was done. IF this guy DID do the health testing, there are registries and paperwork to back up what he says. So if he says YES, ask for the proof.........if he hems and haws, most likely it's because he's not being truthful, either didn't get them done or the results were bad news.... otherwise, there is no reason he can't whip out those records and provide them. People who go to the trouble LIKE to share the good news with others, LOL

 

[mi_bella]

I love that video, haha.

And this one:

YouTube - Dobermans... Bad? Evil? Vicious? You decide...

 

[mi_bella]

There is noway to make ANY dog (dobe or otherwise) 100% free of genetic problems........though it would be lovely wouldn't it? LOL.

That's what I was thinking. But wanted to make sure.

Thanks for all the information. I'll try to soak it up as much as I can to pass it on to my brother.

 

[Doberluv]

Those aren't even all of the health issues they're prone to. Here are a couple more: Liver disease...quite common, masticatory myocytis. (not sure how prevelent that one is actually, but my Dobe and another Dobe on here had it). Hip dysplasia really isn't all that common in Dobes. They can have it, but it's just not a very prevelent issue. They left out bone and other cancers. You want to research the pedigree as well and see what ancestors died of and at what age. Look into the longevity of the litter's ancestors. And BLOAT! I don't know that it would be called genetic persay. It's more to do with the anotomical placement of things probably. But because of the way they're shaped, the deep, low chest and the high tuck-up, the intestinal contents have to move against gravity and dogs with deep chests are prone to bloat, which is a very scary thing. I don't know the statistics, but bloat may be the biggest killer or maybe DCM.

Von Willebrand's can be very serious, but in Dobermans, it frequently is a less severe form, where there is no clinical bleeding issue. They often have enough of the sticky factor which holds the platelets together, where other breeds with this disease have the more serious grades of it and a scratch can cause unstoppable bleeding. This not to say that Dobes can't have the severe form. It's just not as common and not usually a serious issue. This is detectable by DNA testing of the parents and an understanding of how the genes work. Some breeders are striving to rid them of this and some have to let it go by the way side when everything else in the breeding pair is near perfect. It's like choosing between several evils and they have to pick the most important things first. Hopefully, that will eventually be erradicated, but more important are things like the heart problems, liver, wobblers, temperament, structure...etc

 

[Absolute Peril]

As long as it is done by a licensed vet, your animal should be fine.

 

[Laurelin]

As long as it is done by a licensed vet, your animal should be fine.

You must have not seen some of the hack jobs I have.

 

[Absolute Peril]

You must have not seen some of the hack jobs I have.

I have seen some bad cropping jobs but If I were going to get a puppies ears done (which I have) I ask quite a bit of questions before I just hand my pup off. One of the questions I ask is to see pictures of previous crops done etc etc. I'm not posting to argue with you, just my opinion. Personally I have never had a bad cropping experience.

 

[Gypsydals]

I agree with Laur, there are some horrible crop jobs out there. It takes a special vet to beable to do a crop and have it look nice no matter the length of it.

 

[Absolute Peril]

I agree with Laur, there are some horrible crop jobs out there. It takes a special vet to beable to do a crop and have it look nice no matter the length of it.

As I said above, you shouldn't just hand your pup off to any vet offering to crop your dogs ears. Credibility of the vet needs to be taken into concern and questions need to be asked.jmo