Coolies

Discussion in 'Dogs - General Dog Chat' started by avaloncoolies, Jan 4, 2013.

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  1. Aleron

    Aleron New Member

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    I wonder this too. Avalon seems pretty firm in the belief they are two separate breeds, yet says her dogs and the Koolies we know best on Chaz share common dogs in their pedigrees. Wouldn't that make the Avalon dogs Coolie x Koolie mixed breeds?

    It's true, although there are some very convincing mixed breed lookalikes out there! Especially with the SFs. Friends of mine had a dog they got from the pound in the 90s who really, looked very much like a SF black PyrShep. Speciafically looked like the dogs from the litter agility PyrSheps Luka and Boo came from. If someone had him at a PyrShep get together and didn't say he wasn't one...I'm not sure anyone would have questioned it. I have seen some solid merle mini-Aussies who were pretty good SF look a likes too (and actually, have heard people at shows thinking the natural bobtail SF merle was maybe a working bred Aussie). Really though...Aussie or PyrShep?

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  2. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    I know! I know! Haha, I've been researching these two breeds way too much. I recognize all but one of those pictures.
     
  3. Upendi&Mina

    Upendi&Mina Mainstreme Elitist

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    The first four are aussies, the last three are pyr sheps if I had to guess.
     
  4. Aleron

    Aleron New Member

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    LOL too funny! I'd recognize all the PyrSheps for sure :)
     
  5. Psyfalcon

    Psyfalcon Fishies!

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    By bringing them to North America though, you are creating a bottle neck, and the breed will diverge from the originals in some way. The Siberian for example does not look or work exactly like the first imports did if you look at modern racing or show lines. The ones that are most like those are the ones working in a way as close to the original as possible.

    I can't find a standard at the Koolie Club of Aus. There is no web presence for the Aus. Coolie Council or the Working Coolie Club.

    You say they DO have a standard, yet, from the Koolie Club of Australia,
    They do however, list this:
    Which is laughably imprecise, except they go on to describe a standard. It includes:
    So there is no standard, except for one saying you should breed for an eager expression. You have what seems to be a breed club saying the breed must evolve, yet much of the membership is quite against this, at least from a non-herding perspective.
     
  6. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    I even know the kennel names of a few of those.

    One day I will get another herding breed. lol
     
  7. Upendi&Mina

    Upendi&Mina Mainstreme Elitist

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    I immediately recognized the Slash V dog in there. :rofl1: One day I will have a dog from Terry.
     
  8. avaloncoolies

    avaloncoolies New Member

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    Toolalla refers to his dogs as Australian Coolies with a C....his way "of remaining in the middle" i guess...and I do think of his dogs as more German Coolie then Aus. Koolie for sure...this breed is very young, I have said it before so yes it does need to establish, I can think of many breeds still establishing themselves that are more older then the coolie...
     
  9. CharlieDog

    CharlieDog Rude and Not Ginger

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    This is true too. Ozzy could pass as a Koolie, with little issue I think. Especially if I had taped his ears to stand.

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    Even as a puppy, he looks similar to Trav as a puppy. Not so much Didgie or the other one (HAHA)

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    And at about 7 months old or so, he looks less Aussie/JRT and more Koolie

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    So if he could herd, and herd like a Koolie, would that have made him one? Because if he herded like a Border Collie, he could be a Border Collie. He's a rather upright in the rear dog though, and if he had a bob tail or it had been docked he could pass for a short coated Aussie (he does have a double coat)
     
  10. avaloncoolies

    avaloncoolies New Member

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    And each Club has their own "breed standard" or in the example you gave no breed standard but a "guideline" more like....other have more specific standards, it is working ability geared yes, i have said that also from the start...this is a old (on australias history scale) working breed from australia, bred for working (not sports or conformation) from the best worker to the best worker...
    100+years ago best worker to best worker was this guys englishsheepdog type, to german tiger from the farm next door...or smithfield from Howard farm to a carea leones from the spanish rancher from the community over...or maybe english BC to smooth collie etc....etc...and then add some wild dingo in there (remember we are in 1880's here)...by 1920's breedings are more perticular to "the merle german workers" as they built a reputation as hardy, strong workers for the german settlers...
     
  11. CharlieDog

    CharlieDog Rude and Not Ginger

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    In fact, Mrose PM'd me when I first joined asking if he was a Koolie. I'd never heard of them at that point, but looked them up when she asked, and it was a startling resemblance.

    I think even Linds asked about him.

    So, avalon, as someone intimately familiar with the breed, would you have been fooled by Ozzy, should he have been posed as a C/Koolie?
     
  12. avaloncoolies

    avaloncoolies New Member

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    NO not at all Ozzy could not be a coolie....head shape is not "correct"...tail set completly wrong...no curly cues in coolies....and not enough angulation in back legs either...at first clance...then i am sure if i met him there would be no doubt at all from personality and temperement that he is not...(but it would go that far because just by picture i can assure you he is not a coolie or a koolie for that matter)
     
  13. CharlieDog

    CharlieDog Rude and Not Ginger

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    He's a very driven dog. High prey drive, barky. Willing worker. Will work until he drops. Good off switch as he's matured. The only glaring difference is he is Dog Selective, and that can be explained by him being attacked as a young dog.

    So, even if I had told you he was a Koolie, you would not have believed it?
     
  14. avaloncoolies

    avaloncoolies New Member

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    And to assume there would be a "bottleneck" we would have to assume no one will ever import again....NO ONE...I know I have plans to import again...DEFINATLY!! I know some of my puppy owners have plans to import as well (not from Linds breeder but others)
     
  15. Aleron

    Aleron New Member

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    Good guess but you're a bit off :)
     
  16. Psyfalcon

    Psyfalcon Fishies!

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    A working standard still has problems.

    The best dog in Aus. is not the same dog that was the best in the Borderlands. As people promote the breed, even selling to only ranches, the breed will change. Seems though, people don't want change either (calling it a breed).

    Can you list to some of the working standards?

    The bit including in the pdf I linked to above only has about a quarter page of description yet there are 2 pages describing how the dog looks. How is that only breeding the best herders to the best herders?
     
  17. avaloncoolies

    avaloncoolies New Member

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    No i would not beleive it!! I would ask you for importpapers and kennel information YES!!!
     
  18. Upendi&Mina

    Upendi&Mina Mainstreme Elitist

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    Looking again the only one I'd change is the first, looking at expression it looks more like pyr shep.
     
  19. avaloncoolies

    avaloncoolies New Member

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  20. avaloncoolies

    avaloncoolies New Member

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    trust me it is working ability that these breeders are looking for, including myself, if anything the standard on paper (or web page) is to satisfy people as yourselves with questions about standards and looks
     
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