Coolies

Discussion in 'Dogs - General Dog Chat' started by avaloncoolies, Jan 4, 2013.

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  1. JessLough

    JessLough Love My Mutt

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    But I never said there wasn't a difference between BCs and Aussies?

    The difference is, people see different Aussies and BCs often. Most on this board have seen Trav and the girls, and maybe other Toolalla Koolies, which all are of which specific type looks-wise
     
  2. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    You think Steve and Finn look different? How so?

    However, the question is not "can there be variance" the question is... what makes a border collie a border collie, or a coolie a coolie? If it's merely working style and Backup works sheep like my old bosses border collies, is he a border collie? Or Stafinois put Grant on sheep once, would he now be recatagorized as a Coolie if he potentially worked sheep in the same style?

    I feel there should be more signifying a breed beyond "works stock the same" and while looks are not everything they can help standardize. If this is a flawed logic then I would love an education.
     
  3. sassafras

    sassafras mushinois

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    Yea I wonder if many of our frames of reference are just different because of a limited exposure to the breed.

    I get what you are saying, Laurelin, because honestly there are dogs out there that I would be hard pressed to correctly identify as an Aussie vs a BC... so the amount of variation between Avalon's coolies and Linds/Sara's koolies doesn't seem any different than the amount of variation in those breeds to me.
     
  4. JessLough

    JessLough Love My Mutt

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    She said it better. LOL
     
  5. avaloncoolies

    avaloncoolies New Member

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    My coolies range from 35lbs (Mindi) to 48lbs (Akili), u know i might has well put everyone in cause i am pretty sure someone was refering to the "condition" of my dogs....Gunnah is 42lbs, Namoi is 39lbs, Wagga is 39lbs, Riley is 40lbs, Kembla is 37lbs, Malt is 38lbs, Beiber is 39lbs....seems pretty consistent to me, Akili is built differently and is what i refer to as "heavier boned" but I can assure you the "condition" of my dogs is just perfect ... Linds/Saras dogs are from a different kennel and have longer legs and neck, all around taller dog...

    I understand that having only seen one "type" of coolie for the year an a bit that you have been following but as pointed out ... that doesnt make any other coolie that looks different not be a coolie...it to me just reinforces that something new had to be shared, show some of the variety and different traits
     
  6. JessLough

    JessLough Love My Mutt

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    I think we mean different things when we say conditioned.
     
  7. Grab

    Grab Active Member

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    to be fair, though. There really isn't such a wide variety between the avalon dogs and, say, Traveler as there is between Finn and Grant (for example). Their type differences are not that glaring.
     
  8. TuffStuff

    TuffStuff Twin 1

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    While I mostly agree with Adrianne...

    I do think this is a valid point. It would be kind of like never seeing anything except conformation Aussies, bigger boned and long flowing locks blowing in the wind.... lol And then suddenly being introduced to a little working Aussie. It would probably bring about the same kind of confusion.
     
  9. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    Sorry, my question is not the validity of your dogs nor their condition. I went to your website and I agree many look more closely to what I expect when I think koolie, a bit blockier dog and heavy boned, less of the lean and spry look, but sturdy.

    Do you breed for any look at all or do you take only function in account when you breed?
     
  10. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    So, the Koolie breed could be standardized in looks, yes? Beyond "how they work stock" being the only defining characteristic?
     
  11. Lyzelle

    Lyzelle New Member

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    I understand variety. Looking through webpages, breeder pages, facebook pages...all the pictures, I see some variety that would be normal in most breeds. Then I see something that doesn't look like it belongs.

    Especially since this breed is pretty focused on one working avenue? And isn't the gene pool supposed to be fairly small, since this is a breed in development, and not a type? 120 years of true breeding should have made the dogs fairly consistent. I don't believe there should be THIS much "variety" in such a supposedly small gene pool. I think that there HAS to be SOME breeder out there still breeding herding mixes and that is why all these lines look so different.

    Compared to pictures already posted, of course. And the other dogs on Avalon's site, Yeta Hae's site, and the other breeders Avalon said her dogs are from, Coolibah and Borahview. Some of these dogs look very, very similar. Some don't look anything at all alike. So yeah, there's going to be some confusion. Some of these dogs I wouldn't look at and say, "Yeah, that's a C/Koolie...just different breeding"... Like I would on an Aussie or BC.

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  12. avaloncoolies

    avaloncoolies New Member

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    I was hoping....but just in case...wanted to put it out there...what did you mean by condition if not weight...??

    Ok back on to some working style...and working traits and physical needs....I want short dogs with nice solid builds (not thin boned) for working stock, they have to hold their own out on the field, I like that when i look at my coolies there is no doubt my stock will not break them no matter what goes wrong out there...their physical well being and soundness is crucial. In my lines you will find a smaller, slightly heavier bone density but yet light on their feet from the small size...this is great for moving around, small size means cattle kicks go overhead of the dog, speed and all around safety
     
  13. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    I don't think they look nearly as different as some BCs. I was just throwing out random Chaz BCs. How about Finn's dad Coal versus Steve? Probably a better comparison.

    http://canadianbordercollies.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Coal3yrs-2.jpg

    I'm not saying I disagree with you at all. I actually do agree with you. Problem is you can't get anyone to agree on what makes a BC a BC

    In BCs you can ROM in non-regged dogs. There haven't been many afaik. Turnbull Blue (sp?) was regged in and many of his offspring have beards.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/herdingbeardies/4598382342/
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2013
  14. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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  15. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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  16. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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  17. ~Jessie~

    ~Jessie~ Chihuahua Power!

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    Even with the huge variation in BCs, I still think they have the same "look." Same with Aussies.

    I do see a huge difference between the avalon k/coolies and the other k/coolies.
     
  18. Upendi&Mina

    Upendi&Mina Mainstreme Elitist

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    I'm not really seeing it either, but then again maybe it's because I'm used to looking at aussies who have a huge variation in looks depending on what type of lines you're looking at. I wish Keechak would hop in here and post her picture of the BrittaxPulley kids because it does a great job of illustrating the variation in the breed even within a litter.

    Cara is never going to look like a conformation bred aussie and IMO there are some pretty big differences in her build and coat when compared, structurally she looks most similar to Slash V dogs (when it comes to the more well known aussie kennels), who also produces working dogs. :dunno:

    I used Cara as an example because she's been mentioned a few times in the thread.
     
  19. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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  20. avaloncoolies

    avaloncoolies New Member

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    You all can confidently spell Avalon Coolies with a C, no K needed on my part. We have German Coolies...and we are pretty confident with what we would like to call our dogs so please dont feel you have to K/C anything for me, for some others I think there is confusion as to what they own...I mean even Toolalla refers to his as Aus.Coolies with a C...
    it has to be pretty one sided if you are only seing dogs consistent with Toolalla lines, there are so many others out there...I do not post pictures that are not my property so I am unable to copypaste like others, but with more looking into, maybe check the registries web sites i posted at the beginning of the thread...HuntersleaKoolies, Royalla maybe...lots available...my lines are more "covert"...had to do some phone tag to find my breeders, no web site, no facebook back then...I didnt just go to the first google result i found...or the more advertized...borahview feels strongly about the Irish Spotting on coolies and maintaining that in their heritage, toolalla doesnt (toolalla does merle to merle so white is no good, borahview embraces the white as irish spoting is historic to the breed)

    In other words, what you all have been looking at over the past year is a small fraction of what coolies are. There is so much more out there, better even maybe for some (and maybe not for others), but non the less there is more, there is differences, there is variety. My coolies are themselves a small fraction of what is out there...
     
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