Constructional Aggression Treatment

Discussion in 'Dog Training Forum' started by Chewbecca, Aug 15, 2008.

  1. Chewbecca

    Chewbecca feel the magic

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    Oh, also I should mention that AFTER our session, my trainer had her dog in a downstay out of Ella's view. Well, my trainer came over to us to talk about the session.
    I gave Ella to my husband to hold onto because my hands were tired, and my trainer's dog broke her downstay (she's a very well behaved dog and obedient, but no dog is a saint ALL THE TIME) and she came bouncing over to us.
    Ella didn't pull, lunge, bark or react. She looked at her, but no negative reaction.

    I can't believe I forgot to mention that. After training sessions, I'm exhausted and overwhelmed with new info.

    And this CAT stuff is not a walk in the park by any means. I wanted to come home and go to bed, I was SO tired.


    ETA: I don't know if my trainer is a member of the 5th quadrant. I know she's part of some list serv for this that Kelly (and Jesus? maybe?) are a member of, but I don't know if it's that same yahoo group.
     
  2. SizzleDog

    SizzleDog Lord Cynical

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    I wish you luck! I'd love to see Miss Ella get over her doggie.... issues... so you'll have to keep us updated! I know it'll take time and perseverance, but where there's a will theres a way. :)
     
  3. Chewbecca

    Chewbecca feel the magic

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    Aw, thank you, Sizzle.



    Doc, please post any info you get from Kelly.

    I know I haven't hurt Ella any worse, but I really want this to work for her.
    Since she's of a breed that easily can become DA, my biggest hope is that this will cause her just to behave on leash and not react to other dogs.
    But, I mean, if she learns that other dogs are ok and she doesn't have to harm them, that'd be great, too.
    I am trying not to have expectations at all. That may sound bad, but when you're dealing with a dog as DA as Ella, you're willing to try just about anything (barring it doesn't HURT your dog), in hopes that it *might* work.:D
     
  4. dr2little

    dr2little Moderator

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    I wasn't going to ask Kelly questions but rather see what your trainer got as a response. I already know what Kelly would tell her and didn't want to come across as a knowitall..:D I think that Ella is very lucky to have someone who is willing to help her as much as possible but who will also understand what her limitations may be and love her for all the wonderful stuff.
    Many DA dogs can only ever get to a point where they don't want to attack another dog, they're socially tolerant under supervision and control and that would still be fantastic. Reactivity can be such a stressful thing when you're a loving owner at the end of the leash of a dog who you know to be so fantastic in every other way. Good for you for doing all you can for your dolly Ella.:)
     
  5. dr2little

    dr2little Moderator

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    That's interesting... Would she normally have gone a bit snake if an off leash dog approached?

    Oh, and yes...she's likely a member of the 5th. I'll go and take a look for her questions.:)
     
  6. Bahamutt99

    Bahamutt99 Dafuq?

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    Constructional Aggression Treatment. CAT? :D
     
  7. Chewbecca

    Chewbecca feel the magic

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    Thanks, Doc.

    I don't know how often my trainer makes it online. I know she's busy with training. She does obedience classes and agility classes.
    And she does a lot of private sessions as well.
    And I know she doesn't have the fastest internet connection.:)


    And Lindsay, yes, CAT. hahahahaha. Funny, huh?
    :lol-sign:
     
  8. dr2little

    dr2little Moderator

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    Owner - I have a DA dog.

    Trainer - I have a treatment that might work, it's called CAT.

    Owner - Oh no, my dog already LURVES cats!:D
     
  9. Chewbecca

    Chewbecca feel the magic

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    hahahahahaha!!!

    Doc,
    Did you catch my thread in general about our encounter with an off leash lab this morning on our walk?:(

    Could have turned out worse, but Ella's reactivity wasn't pleasant.

    AND, no, the way she reacted to my trainer's dog last night is NOT the typical way she responds to dogs approaching us.
    It was VERY different.

    But I don't know what this encounter will do to ANY progress we MIGHT HAVE made last night.:(
     
  10. dr2little

    dr2little Moderator

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    I'll go and take a look at the thread.:)
     
  11. corgipower

    corgipower Tweleve Enthusiest

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    Be sure to tell the trainer about it so she can be prepared for any setback that might be there.
     
  12. Chewbecca

    Chewbecca feel the magic

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    I just called her and left her a message.
    She SHOULD know.:)
     
  13. Sch3Dana

    Sch3Dana Workin' Dog

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    Am I the only one here that is outraged about this story? I'm interested in this thread- the DA is a serious problem, and this training seems like it could work well, but only if it is handled expertly. How can the person in charge of the training create this disaster? A trainer should know whether or not their own dog will hold a down stay. If they don't, I'm already questioning their competence. And, they should also understand how important it is that nothing goes wrong during these sessions. So, either this trainer did not understand the importance of perfection in this technique, or she did not understand the training on her own dog.

    I don't want to be the naysayer, but if you are serious about using this method to fix Ella's DA, I would look around and find someone who takes the training more seriously or is more competent or BOTH. The trainer should be the expert here and should not be making major blunders in the work. I won't even get into the part where the lesson wasn't planned with enough time to finish the session correctly. I'm really pleased that Ella handled this situation better than expected, thrilled that it didn't seem to set her back, but do realize that this is blind luck. The next stupid mistake may end very differently.
     
  14. Chewbecca

    Chewbecca feel the magic

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    Oh, er...hi! I don't know you, but hi!:)

    Normally my trainer's dog WON'T break her downstay. She just happened to that night and, she would NOT have left her dog in a downstay, out of our view, had she thought her dog would break a downstay.

    And no, it didn't set Ella back, and that's good.
    Now, the off leash lab that ran up into her face the next day on our walk?
    THAT might have set her back. But as I said going into this...even if it doesn't work, ok, so I have what?
    A dog aggressive Ella? I already have that now.

    And I seriously want SOMETHING to work, but maybe my expectations are low because I go into new things without expecting them to work.
     
  15. Sch3Dana

    Sch3Dana Workin' Dog

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    Hi :)

    Sorry if I came off a bit harsh. I really wish you luck in your training. I know how stressful DA is. I also know that it is controllable if not fixable. You should not have to walk your neighborhood in constant fear that another dog will come close and Ella will blow her stack. But your expectations have to be high. You have to believe that the training matters and that it will work.

    I would not lower your expectations. There are trainers out there who can help you get a handle on this. People who have trained many dogs with this same problem- it's not unusual, after all. I hope your trainer does help you. I'm just disappointed that she let this mistake happen at such a crucial time in the training. I trained dogs professionally for 8 years and had demo dogs out much of the time so I know what it's like. And I know this is a serious error on the part of the trainer in charge.
     
  16. Suzzie

    Suzzie Aging Canine Advocate

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    Why? So people can criticize that too?
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    chew - i find this fascinating... sort of a "doggie zen" kind of training! keep posting, I'm enjoying it and hope it is successful so you can enjoy a pleasant walk with Ella. :D
     
  17. Chewbecca

    Chewbecca feel the magic

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    Gotta get to bed, but wanted to mention.
    HUGE break through for Ella tonight.
    HUGE.
    Like, I ALMOST cried, huge.

    My trainer and her dog got 15' from us, and Ella laid herself down, TOTALLY relaxed and COMFORTABLE. With soft eyes, soft ears, soft body language.
    TOTALLY comfortable. Even LOOKED at my trainer's dog for a few seconds (like, almost eye contact, but definitely straight in the face, look), and then moved her eyes away without reacting.

    And when I say she laid down, on her own, 15' from my trainer's dog, I mean she laid down, on one hip, with the other hip swung out.
    It's her standard "I am comfortable" position for laying down.

    She even did the GI Joe body crawl forward. AW.:D
     
  18. Sch3Dana

    Sch3Dana Workin' Dog

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    That is really great news! Did all the lunging when she retreated stop too?

    So, throw a little party, you all did good! :)

    But, then get ready to do this with dozens more dogs to get a real change in her behavior. Anyone on here who is familiar with CAT and has an estimate of how many different dogs you generally need to do it with? And, the big final test, what do you do when she meets a dog on the street who is not neutral, ie, play soliciting or DA?
     
  19. Chewbecca

    Chewbecca feel the magic

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    If we meet a DA, loose dog on the streets, it doesn't matter HOW her behavior has changed/not changed towards dogs, she's screwed anyway.
     
  20. dr2little

    dr2little Moderator

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    Each dog is different just like reactivity circumstances for each dog are different. For some dogs it has more to do with how many times you are in the ENVIRIONMENT that they react and use CAT. I've had cases where reactivity was in the home and it only took a few strangers until we were able to set up safe greeting plans without CAT.
    On the walk with other dogs, this can still happen if Ella learns that if 'these' dogs are nothing to get worked up about ...then maybe dogs in general are OK.
    Not to suggest that this will really ever get to the point where Ella plays with other strange dogs, it very possibly may never happen. Having her calming see another dog and not react....that would be great!



    Completely agree! Non reactive dogs would very likely react in this situation and for good reason.

    CONGRATULATIONS ELLA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GREAT NEWS!!:D
     

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