Constructional Aggression Treatment

[corgipower]

The logic behind it isn't really that of flooding. You don't cross the threshold enough to truly flood the dog.

The reasoning for CAT is that the dog wants the stimuli to go away. Previously aggression has worked to that end. Here, we present the stimulus at the point where the dog will aggress and we wait. When the aggression doesn't serve to make the stimulus leave, the dog should begin to offer something else. We want that something else, and as soon as it's offered we reward the dog by removing the stimulus.

It absolutely is negative reinforcement. But also if the dog aggressed and the stimulus went away, the dog has been negatively reinforced for aggression. That's one of the ways aggression escalates.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_conditioning

Exposure therapies

Exposure therapy involves systematically exposing individuals to a feared object or situation until the fear has been extinguished. Generally the therapy will involve the construction of a fear hierarchy of events that gradually escalate from least anxiety-evoking, to most anxiety evoking. Through the process of systematic exposure, the anxiety felt is lessened or eliminated. Various forms of exposure therapy has been shown to be effective for a variety of psychological diagnoses, including Specific Phobia, Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder, and Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. Systematic desensitization involves the utilization of exposure therapy, paired with relaxation techniques, such as diaphragmatic breathing.[citation needed]

Flooding similarly exposes the patient to a feared object or situation, but involves no hierarchy. Instead, the patient is exposed to their worst possible fear (within realistic safety limitations) and prevented from escaping the situation until the fear is eliminated. Evidence suggests that flooding is not the most effective form of exposure therapy.

 

[Chewbecca]

er...but the dog isn't aggressing when the stimulus goes away. The dog goes into calm behavior. THEN the unwanted stimulus goes away.

Or did I not understand? I could have missed it, seriously, my mind starts spinning when I start thinking/talking about behaviors and stuff of that nature.

 

[corgipower]

er...but the dog isn't aggressing when the stimulus goes away. The dog goes into calm behavior. THEN the unwanted stimulus goes away.

Or did I not understand? I could have missed it, seriously, my mind starts spinning when I start thinking/talking about behaviors and stuff of that nature.

I might not have phrased it well. When I mention the stimulus going away when the dog aggresses, I'm talking about pre-CAT.

 

[Chewbecca]

I might not have phrased it well. When I mention the stimulus going away when the dog aggresses, I'm talking about pre-CAT.

OH!
I should have figured!
Sorry!

 

[dr2little]

The greatest chance of flooding with CAT occurs when the stimuli see's no reaction so inches closer to meet threshold and the dog goes off the charts (and this DOES happen no matter how experienced you are with CAT).

The reason that even Jesus calls this method a form of flooding is that when that often unexpected outburst happens, you CAN NOT retreat at that point and must stay in place until an alternative behaviour/signal is offered. If you then turn to retreat for your 15 seconds and again the dog reacts as you start to move away, you MUST return to that position and hold until another signal is offered. I've seen cases where this can take 3 or 4 attempts at leaving...thus flooding has occured.

My feeling is that as this is usually not the method chose for dogs with timidity issues, this level of flooding can be beneficial in allowing the dog to create a different way of controlling his environment, unlike flooding where all control is taken away.

Does that make sense at all??

 

[SisMorphine]

I will be very interested to see how this plays out. I have read about it, learned about it in class, but have never had to use it as none of my clients have been so out of control DA. Can you get someone to video tape??

 

[Chewbecca]

er...probably not this time, Sis.
I might get some pictures, though.

Actually, if I can contact my trainer to see what she says about videotaping our first session, I might see if Ben's dad has a video camera.

 

[SisMorphine]

er...probably not this time, Sis.
I might get some pictures, though.

Actually, if I can contact my trainer to see what she says about videotaping our first session, I might see if Ben's dad has a video camera.

I have a tendency to video tape all of our training sessions for many different reasons: but I especially love to use it if we're using a new technique that we haven't tried before, or that's new to the dog, or whatever. This way we can all go back and watch it and see it from a different perspective.

So not necessarily something to post up online for those of us who are nosey enough to want to see it (<-----me), but at least so you and your trainer can sit down and watch it and analyze what happened.

 

[dr2little]

I will be very interested to see how this plays out. I have read about it, learned about it in class, but have never had to use it as none of my clients have been so out of control DA. Can you get someone to video tape??

I record all of my private training sessions and provide a disk to the owners so they have everything that we did to play back for reference. I'll see if I can get permission to put a snippit on youtube to show what a cycle looks like.

 

[Chewbecca]

oooh!
that would be awesome!


Well, as it turns out, I don't have a video camera that will upload to the computer.
I have my point and shoot which will do about a minute of taping, but that's it.

 

[GoingNowhere]

Thanks Chewbecca and Dr2little for the explanation! When you were using the term 'negative reinforcement' I had punishment in my head. So I learned something new today! They are two different things. Thanks

 

[Baxter'smybaby]

very interesting info. I hope it's successful Becca!

 

[Chewbecca]

Out of a measured 134 ft., we were able to progress (and end with since we ran out of time) 41 ft. forward.

This was difficult as Ella did NOT react how we had anticipated completely.
It was NOT her normal, typical, dog aggressive reaction.
It still wasn't nice, but there was no manic attempt to back out of her collar.
She would bark, and bark, and bark, and bark until she'd stop and sit. Then she'd whine. Then she'd bark. Then she'd look away. Then she'd get up and try to walk away. Then she'd come back and sit in front of me and bark.
When she finally would stop, my trainer would walk away with her dog.
THEN is when Ella would lunge and REALLY start to bark.
It was odd. My trainer is emailing the people who started this and asking about what to do when the dog lunges and barks AFTER you walk away.

Overall, this wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be.
Strangest thing was, once she'd calm herself by sitting either in front of me or next to me, she HAD TO make eye contact with me. She'd FREEZE in dead-on eye contact with me. FOR THE LONGEST TIME. She'd just stare at me.
Then my trainer would take this as calm behavior and start walking away, then Ella would lunge and bark at them.
But her lunges started becoming almost fake lunges. She'd go through the motion, but without the jerking of the lunge. Then she'd circle behind me and sometimes she'd stay behind me and face behind me, or she'd circle around me and stop and sit at my side and then make that eye contact stare thing with me.

 

[dr2little]

Out of a measured 134 ft., we were able to progress (and end with since we ran out of time) 41 ft. forward.

This was difficult as Ella did NOT react how we had anticipated completely.
It was NOT her normal, typical, dog aggressive reaction.
It still wasn't nice, but there was no manic attempt to back out of her collar.
She would bark, and bark, and bark, and bark until she'd stop and sit. Then she'd whine. Then she'd bark. Then she'd look away. Then she'd get up and try to walk away. Then she'd come back and sit in front of me and bark.
When she finally would stop, my trainer would walk away with her dog.
THEN is when Ella would lunge and REALLY start to bark.
It was odd. My trainer is emailing the people who started this and asking about what to do when the dog lunges and barks AFTER you walk away.

This part worries me. When exactly did Ella start to bark, was it when your trainer and her dog were still in view?

Overall, this wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be.
Strangest thing was, once she'd calm herself by sitting either in front of me or next to me, she HAD TO make eye contact with me. She'd FREEZE in dead-on eye contact with me. FOR THE LONGEST TIME. She'd just stare at me.
Then my trainer would take this as calm behavior and start walking away, then Ella would lunge and bark at them.
But her lunges started becoming almost fake lunges. She'd go through the motion, but without the jerking of the lunge. Then she'd circle behind me and sometimes she'd stay behind me and face behind me, or she'd circle around me and stop and sit at my side and then make that eye contact stare thing with me.

How long was the session? Is your trainer a 5th Quadrant member? I'm going to go and see what Kelly has to say but I think that the session should have continued until success was achieved... I'm also concerned about the fact that Ella may have been posturing while the exit was in progress. The trainer should immediately resume the threshold break as soon as barking starts except if they have already been out of site for a few seconds.

 

[Chewbecca]

How long was the session? Is your trainer a 5th Quadrant member? I'm going to go and see what Kelly has to say but I think that the session should have continued until success was achieved... I'm also concerned about the fact that Ella may have been posturing while the exit was in progress. The trainer should immediately resume the threshold break as soon as barking starts except if they have already been out of site for a few seconds.

We didn't have time to do this in one shot like it says to.
We should, technically, go back for the next three days, but we cannot do that.

What did we do wrong?
EEEK!
Why would Ella lunge AFTER she turned around to walk away?

 

[corgipower]

It could be an attempt to control the situation - like a "Hey you, get back here!" or "And stay gone!!", or a prey response, or a build up of frustration being released.

She wasn't sure what happened and wasn't sure why the dog was leaving. That's why the session should continue longer ~ so she works through the confusion.

 

[dr2little]

We didn't have time to do this in one shot like it says to.
We should, technically, go back for the next three days, but we cannot do that.

What did we do wrong?
EEEK!
Why would Ella lunge AFTER she turned around to walk away?

You did nothing wrong but your trainer, if she's trained in this method should really have planned for things to go sour. I absolutely always clear my schedule when doing CAT because one just never knows what can happen and how long it will take.

If you do this again, I would be sure that she has first hashed this out with someone more experienced AND plans for the unexpected.

Unfortunately, if in fact the stimuli did continue to move away even when Ella reacted, she's now been reinforced for reactivity.

I wish I could help...if your trainer can't get the help that she's looking for from the folks on the 5th Quadrant, tell her to email me and I'll do my best to answer her questions....(and I promise to be very kind to her)!

Just wanted to add that you're no worse off, so stop worrying.... You can start fresh the next time!

 

[corgipower]

What is the 5th Quadrant?

 

[dr2little]

What is the 5th Quadrant?

It's a yahoo group for people who have attended training for CAT. it's nice because Kelly is on there often, and there is a great group of trainers who have experience with CAT as well.

 

[Chewbecca]

Wait. this is how it would go:

They would approach, Ella would bark, bark, bark, react, react, react.
She'd calm herself down. My trainer would walk away.
Ella would lunge and bark and bark. My trainer would turn around and come back.
Ella would calm herself.
Trainer would leave.

Finally Ella stopped reacting as my trainer left.

And she told us we were supposed to do this longer.
*We* are not able to be there that long.