Co-owns

[StephyMei1112]

Absolutely not. Katalin is all mine muahahahaha.

I believe in the companion contract it just says should anything not work out that the breeder will be responsible for re-homing her and will bear the expense of doing so etc. That's it.

We're 4 people at home but I'm the ONLY one that walks her, feeds her, grooms her etc. She's bonded with my parents OK, my brother not that much. I guess you could say I co-own her with a very close friend of mine whom she is extremely bonded with - but it's not legal at all. Her vet bills, papers etc - are all under my name solely.

I guess I would co-own a show/breeding dog. Especially if I wasn't at a good financial vantage point to take care of travel, show grooming, extensive vet expenses etc and the co-owners were fair about it - it might relieve some of the pressure in that sense. But otherwise I would prefer having a dog just be mine legally =) - no hassle or fights or conflict of interest with others!

 

[Shai]

Um yeah Mira's is basically I can't breed her without a thumbs-up from the breeder, I can veto breeding plans by the breeder if I don't like them/am not comfortable with the plans made. Neither of us would agree to breed unless relevant health testing and show records where in place so that's a moot point and didn't need to be spelled out.

I also can't spay Mira without notifying the breeder, unless it's an emergency situation in which case whoever has Mira is legally free to do whatever it takes in HER best interest...and by that we mean her live and quality of life comes first.

Health testing -- I actually can't remember if that's a contractual requirement. I'd do at least hips anyway for sport and so their breeding program has the info. Heck Kim & Webby have OFA numbers. She'll get her CERF and patella tests done the next time I have a chance.

Showing -- No showing is mandated in the contract. I was already planning on competing with her in various formats and the only thing that would have prevented me is if she grew up to be truly unsuitable in some way (in which case she shouldn't be bred anyhow) or if something horrible happened to me so I couldn't show, in which case we'd probably discuss sending her up to her breeders' for a bit to be evaluated on birds and in the show ring.

There are various other things and I honestly haven't looked at it in the a while but that's the gist of the show/coown aspect of it. The rest was more or less from the pet puppy section...don't drive with your dog in the open bed of a pick-up...if I can't keep her at any time for any reason just call and they will take her back at a moment's notice...that sort of thing.

 

[~WelshStump~]

Technically, Enda is mine, her reproductive organs are her breeders. Like this V

I am a breeder and I co-own any dog that leaves here intact. (I currently only co-own with 4 people since they are the only people I have trusted to do right with an intact animal.) I am very easy to co-own with. The dog is theirs and I don't interfere. The only thing I am firm about is that I have a say in whether or not the dog is bred and if so, to whom. I have had very good relationships with my co-owners and we stay in touch.

On paper she's only co-owned with her breeder with the Canadian club. But her breeder still has the final say on when, and to whom she's bred if I want to. I like this kind of co-own best, because I'm not being forced into anything, I'm not being forced to show her, work her, or even breed her. If I want to spay her that's fine, if I want to keep showing her that's fine, if I want to get her into other sports (I am) that's fine. I just can't breed her till, she has a show Ch (which she has), and she's health tested (which by the contract she is, although I would still get a more thorough heart check if I did decide to breed her).

I myself, I would never co-own a dog if I was forced to show them, so often or to a certain point, keep them intact and breed them, if I feel it's in the dogs best interest to be fixed I want it to happen on my terms, and if I feel the dog could/should be bred I want it to happen on my time when I have the time and space and I feel the dog who's living with is physically/mentally ready (Enda is SO not ready! I couldn't image having someone make me breed her now just because she's two and has been health tested!).

And to the above, I just mention the breeding terms part because that was something I read in a Pem breeders contract. They demanded that if you got an intact prospect from them, it was to be shown and title before a certain point, and that they were to be bred right after health testing was completed. Oh! and to top that off, they also demanded the bitch was to be returned to them for the breeding, and whelping! NO WAY! I mean, I could see it if say the owner didn't have the space or time, but not with me, I couldn't do that to my dogs personally, they whelp in MY house, or they don't have puppies at all!

 

[kady05]

Nope, I own Sako outright. I would do a co-own with his breeder now that I've gotten to know her, but was leery of it when first I got him. There are only a handful of people I'd do co-owns with, I've heard plenty of horror stories that have made me paranoid about it!

 

[SpringerLover]

Heck Kim & Webby have OFA numbers. She'll get her CERF and patella tests done the next time I have a chance.

What breed do you have them listed as? (Asks the OFA nerd...)

 

[SpringerLover]

Nevermind, I think I found them in hybrid!

 

[Aleron]

Everything from having the dog reclaimed for being too "high quality" and the breeder wanted it at their kennel, to having a dog bred against the owner's recommendations due to the dog's health and having the dog die in whelp

Well unless the contract states the dog can be "reclaimed", I think the owner would generally have to hand them over and could refuse to. However, if you send your co-owned dog away with their co-owner and the co-owner decides they want to keep the dog it could be very hard to get the dog back.

I have co-owned quite a few dogs over the years. One ended up with the co-owner/breeder wanting him back pretty much for the reason you stated - they felt he was too good of a dog for a a newbie to the breed and didn't feel I was showing him enough. I didn't give him back though, we had no contract and just a verbal agreement that if she wanted to breed to him she could. She was mad but there really wasn't much she could do. My other co-owns have gone well enough, other than really regretting agreeing to litter back terms with one.

 

[Shai]

What breed do you have them listed as? (Asks the OFA nerd...)

Their certs say "Hybrid"

 

[Beanie]

Payton is co-owned. Georgie will probably be (her papers aren't sent in yet.) At some point Pepper will either be signed over to me or I will be added on as co-owner (probably the latter.)

Honestly we don't have a co-own contract, but all three dogs are with Auggie's breeder. It would probably be smarter to have a contract but it was one of those "we've been friends for ages" kind of things. Besides, we don't have concrete plans for any of the dogs, so it's not even like we have a verbal contract... just "in case" type things. When it came time to send in Payton's papers, I told her it was up to her if she wanted to sign on or not, because he has technically gone oversize, so if she doesn't have any interest in him as potential breeding stock, it's no big deal to me. I didn't buy the dog to breed him though we knew there was a possibility depending on how he turned out, so I wasn't going to cry if she thought it best to chop his balls off hahaha. She went ahead and still signed on as co-owner. Good news for Payton's balls.


I don't really worry too much about it. Even if she suddenly went nutso and decided she wanted to "steal" Payton because her name is on as co-owner, I honestly can't see how it would ever get through a court. I've heard horror stories too, but I've also heard far more stories of breeders and rescues having issues despite their contracts with dog owners... possession being 9/10ths of the law and all that... so it's not something I panic over.

 

[Emily]

I have very mixed feelings about co-owns. I have seen some where, for example, the buyer pays full price, must show the dog, but has no breeding rights, and I would never sign something like that. Why? Because it only benefits the breeder, not the owner. I mean, really, I pay $1500 for the dog, MUST show it on my dime, but you get exclusive breeding rights? That just doesn't work for me, maybe I'm too old school. I wouldn't do any kind of co-own stipulating that I must show/compete or have no breeding rights whatsoever.

That said, I have seen co-owns that are advantageous to both parties, and to those I say rock on. To me, that's what a co-own should be. Something that aids both parties, not something that lets the breeder maintain full control over the dog while somebody else foots the bill. I know of a co-own where one party pays for health testing, and the other pays for stud fee for breeding. I think that's really cool. That to me is about pooling your resources to ensure the best for the dog and any litters, and therefore, the breed. And that's what I, personally, think a co-own should be.

But I dunno, contracts over a page long make me break out into hives anyway.

 

[Kat09Tails]

I have very mixed feelings about co-owns. I have seen some where, for example, the buyer pays full price, must show the dog, but has no breeding rights, and I would never sign something like that. Why? Because it only benefits the breeder, not the owner. I mean, really, I pay $1500 for the dog, MUST show it on my dime, but you get exclusive breeding rights? That just doesn't work for me, maybe I'm too old school. I wouldn't do any kind of co-own stipulating that I must show/compete or have no breeding rights whatsoever.

^^ Pretty much this.

I have also seen way, way, way too many go unbelievably sideways to the point of court hearings to discuss who would be the physical owner of the dog.

There is also so much information that is straight up wrong about what a co own will by it's nature protect you from. It doesn't prevent breedings or even registration of offspring in boys or girls. It also isn't a stake claim in the dog that to my knowledge would be upheld in a court of law. All it does to my knowledge is give credit to the breeder in the show record and prevent further transfers of ownership on the registration form. Everything else must clearly be spelled out in contract and you better hope your contract is considered binding in the states involved.

 

[Red Chrome]

I co-own Judge. His breeder has full breeding rights to him. I own him technically but she wanted to ensure he was health tested before he was bred as well as have access to use him in the future.

I co-own 3 of Judges puppies. That was to ensure there was no breeding done without fulfilling my contract first. As well as keep tabs on the intact puppies.

I also co-own a bitch with a friend, just to assure she has a place to go if something should happen to him. She can't go back to the breeder, they're a large scale breeder and would just resell her.

I would do a co-own in the ffuture with the right breeder.

 

[Gypsydals]

I have very mixed feelings about co-owns. I have seen some where, for example, the buyer pays full price, must show the dog, but has no breeding rights, and I would never sign something like that. Why? Because it only benefits the breeder, not the owner. I mean, really, I pay $1500 for the dog, MUST show it on my dime, but you get exclusive breeding rights? That just doesn't work for me, maybe I'm too old school. I wouldn't do any kind of co-own stipulating that I must show/compete or have no breeding rights whatsoever.

That is similar to the girl I passed on a few months ago. Granted I don't mind paying full price for a dog, but by god if I do, she should be mine with no stipulations involved. In the end depending on the stipulation picked, the breeder would have gotten $2,000.00 on up from me. Either straight out of my pocketbook for her, And/OR from selling puppies.

 

[Emily]

Granted I don't mind paying full price for a dog, but by god if I do, she should be mine with no stipulations involved. I

Exactly!

ETA: I mean, I feel if you're expected to pay full price, must show the dog, plus house/feed/vet it... but they get to retain extensive rights to it... They should be paying you for showing and boarding their dog! LOL

 

[Teal]

I guess I would co-own a show/breeding dog. Especially if I wasn't at a good financial vantage point to take care of travel, show grooming, extensive vet expenses etc and the co-owners were fair about it - it might relieve some of the pressure in that sense. But otherwise I would prefer having a dog just be mine legally =) - no hassle or fights or conflict of interest with others!

I've NEVER heard of a co-own contract where the breeder paid for anything. Every contract I've seen, the owner is responsible for ALL costs involved in showing/health testing/etc.

Well unless the contract states the dog can be "reclaimed", I think the owner would generally have to hand them over and could refuse to. However, if you send your co-owned dog away with their co-owner and the co-owner decides they want to keep the dog it could be very hard to get the dog back.

I have co-owned quite a few dogs over the years. One ended up with the co-owner/breeder wanting him back pretty much for the reason you stated - they felt he was too good of a dog for a a newbie to the breed and didn't feel I was showing him enough. I didn't give him back though, we had no contract and just a verbal agreement that if she wanted to breed to him she could. She was mad but there really wasn't much she could do. My other co-owns have gone well enough, other than really regretting agreeing to litter back terms with one.

The contract stated the dog could be reclaimed if being kept in unsuitable conditions. The breeder decided that crating the dog while the owners were at work constituted "unsuitable conditions" and used that as her reason to reclaim the dog.

Exactly!

ETA: I mean, I feel if you're expected to pay full price, must show the dog, plus house/feed/vet it... but they get to retain extensive rights to it... They should be paying you for showing and boarding their dog! LOL

LOL now I like the sound of THAT!

 

[JessLough]

I have no desire to breed, so I'd really only do it so I could keep a do intact if that was the only way

 

[Bigpoodleperson]

I co-own Draco with the breeder. She is someone who I Totally trust! I would Never enter into a co-own without full trust in the breeder!!! I got a discount for Draco as he was to be shown. Now we feel he isnt breeding/show qualtiy, so unless he really comes together later he will be neutered and co-own taken off.

 

[momto8]

I've NEVER heard of a co-own contract where the breeder paid for anything. Every contract I've seen, the owner is responsible for ALL costs involved in showing/health testing/etc.

I will pay for my showing and health testing, but if my breeder wants the boy collected then it will be in our contract that she will pay for it. I will also have breeding rights, but I have no immediate plans to breed and would never do anything without my breeders blessing

 

[OwnedByBCs]

My co-owning experience was awful. I co-owned my Gordon Setter puppy with his breeder, and his sire's owner. I didn't know them that well, which probably had a lot to do with it. They were obsessive about knowing every detail of the puppy's life; They called me at least twice a week, if I didn't answer they would send me emails (and vice versa). If I took a picture of him that he didn't look fantastic in (I.E. any "candid" shots of him playing) they would insist I took them down. If he didn't win at a show, they would freak out and assumed that I must have made some mistake in grooming him, or he was underweight, or I shouldn't have entered him under a "bad" judge.

This dog started showing pretty serious dog aggression when he was about 17 months old. I took him to classes, trainers, behaviorists- and nothing. I worked with him until he was 3 years old, and then I finally decided that he needed to be rehomed. I contacted his breeders, told him what was going on, and they refused to take him back until he finished his championship. We finished him, and I found him a home with someone who lived on a big property with no dogs. He is really happy there, but I feel like that whole experience scared me off from co-owning with anyone I don't know.

Like I said, I'm guessing that it had more to do with the fact that I didn't know them, and they just weren't very nice people. I know not every experience is like that.

 

[Bahamutt99]

Both of my dogs are co-owned, one with a contract. While nothing has gone epically wrong with my co-owns, I think whenever two people are actively involved with the same dog, there is the possibility of catching bad feelings. I have decided that my next dog will not be a co-own. The reason is simply that if I am doing the work, I want to make the decisions. If I have to get a signature for things as simple as an address change, insure don't ever want to go through the trouble of breeding a co-own dog. And I DO want to breed a litter at some point.