CM gets bitten... again (vid included)

Discussion in 'Dog Training Forum' started by Dogdragoness, Sep 18, 2012.

  1. Doberluv

    Doberluv Active Member

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    Watch the video again Rubygirl. The dog in the beginning has a soft face, soft eyes and begins eating peacefully, looking like there isn't a worry in her head. Then all of a sudden Cesar, this mentally unstable psycopath moves into her close, hovering over her food. The dog, who most assuredly has a history of being threatened about her food, snarls and air snaps, where upon Cesar slugs the dog hard right in her carotid artery area on her neck. This dog is giving every calming signal possible. She licks her lips, turns her head, (he calls that not being submissive enough...idiot) She lies down. After she bites, he moves in closer yet again, trapping her between the fence and a bush, while he blocks the only escape route left to her. If you think this is is something that every dog should tolerate after having a history of probably mistreatment, then I don't know what to think. You ask any behaviorist what they think and I can almost guarantee that they won't agree that this is abnormal or that it is out right aggression. Sure, there are dogs that will put up with more. Dogs, like people have different thresholds for mistreatment. There are dogs that genetically don't have a high threshold because if they did, they wouldn't make, for instance, good guardian dogs. I had a Doberman and if he had been kicked around and gone after like CM did this dog, he wouldn't have tolerated it. He wouldn't have lasted as long as this dog did before defending himself. No way. And my Doberman never bit anyone in his life. He was a fine dog with people. But no one ever violently attacked him, like this nut job does to dogs.

    And the dog's history probably has a lot to do with it as well. Something that was going on PREDICTED to this dog that things were about to get a lot worse. If it were the first time something like this happened, he may not have bitten that hard. He may have still been in the wtf??? stage, where he's still trying to work things out. Or........maybe he has a lower tolerance for this kind of mistreatment. So....simple answer for a dog that has a low tolerance? Work within that tolerance. Stop pushing him and doing everything possible to elicit that kind of response from him.

    If someone doesn't want to have a dog that bites when people get around his/her food, then don't go around his food.... OR....condition him to being fine with it PROPERLY. And that does not include abuse!
     
  2. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

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    I wouldn't expect any dog, regardless of their previous life, to accept what Dober's described. I wouldn't WANT my dog to accept that from anyone.

    You treat an animal like that you SHOULD get hammered.
     
  3. rubygirl

    rubygirl New Member

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    No they are not set up for failure. Every dog I have fostered/rescued has ended up in wonderful homes. I'm not about to go into the process that I use to desensitize a dog but I'm sure it's not what you are thinking... obviously it's not.
    As for the caveman comment- I don't let my dogs attack me "goodness no, they are fuzzy humans after all" *gag*
    You do what you want. You allow your dogs to bite you and it's ok well that's your problem (as stated before). I'm not tolerating it.
     
  4. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    Once again I associate this with the big talkers. Super tough, I mean they can kick a kitten to death and then walk away with beer in hand not a flicker of guilt on their minds, online of course.

    Offline we call those sociopaths.
     
  5. Greenmagick

    Greenmagick New Member

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    Hmm, count me in the unstable then....and many other dog people I know. OH the horror of not letting kids corner dogs and ATTACK them provoking a bit. The horror of freaking managing a situation.
     
  6. sassafras

    sassafras mushinois

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    Yup, by the time the bite occurs, in the dog's mind it has nothing to do with food and everything to do with defending herself against an aggressor.

    At the very beginning of the clip, when he is looming over the food bowl and she snaps at him, he clocks her right in the side of her head. It's fast, but he hits her.

    Strawman. The dog did not bite until after it was pursued well away from the food and continuously harassed. I do not allow children under my supervision to be anywhere near dogs while they are eating, let alone pursue them or treat them the way Cesar did. If you do, then as I said before there is a lot larger problem than RG going on.

    Yup, you have your right to give your opinion. And everyone else has a right to give their opinions of your opinion. :)
     
  7. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    Sorry Ruby, my dogs have teeth, they can bite because I've yet to kick the teeth out of their mouths. That said, as I was clear about, it is not acceptable. It is not however a death sentence nor am I so uneducated to believe that abuse solves the issue without additional side effects which I am not willing to create.

    Management, rehab, training, and proper desensitizing (ie praising the right option directly below the threshold) is the fixer.

    I'd rather work with my dogs than kill them most days, we can't all say that though.
     
  8. rubygirl

    rubygirl New Member

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    Ok so.... a husband is being threatened by his wife. She is posturing and in his face. She then goes as if to take his remote control away from him (she doesn't actually do it but the husband perceives this to be the case). He then air punches close to her face so she smacks his hand away from her face. He then "instinctually" beats the crap out of her and punches her in the face numerous times and she has some serious cuts that are bleeding. Appropriate response? No.
    Obviously Cesar is a human and the dog is a dog but STILL. Cesar was putting a dog in a position to show him her true nature and the behaviour her was hired to correct. I don't agree with all of his methods but I understand what he was attempting to do. You call this setting the dog up for failure I call it putting the dog in a position to be corrected.
    I'm not a huge Cesar fan but I'm not against him (I don't consider him a sadist or an abuser). Cesar has his techniques and I'm not going to dispute them because I don't really care.
     
  9. Doberluv

    Doberluv Active Member

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    No, a dog wouldn't have to have previous mistreatment. I'm just saying that the dog may have held off just a little longer before biting if this were the first time it perceived it's food being taken or being punished. This may have been quicker because of that anticipation element. But maybe not. Animals are animals. And it's too bad people don't really get that and expect them to have our human value system and our moral system. "Yes, you should put up with mistreatment and abuse, no matter what."

    And btw....No one said that one should have a dog "like this" when they have a baby in the house. Furthermore, if people mishandle dogs, push them into defensiveness, take normal behavior and turn it into really dangerous behavior......they shouldn't have dogs in the first place, baby in house or not.
     
  10. rubygirl

    rubygirl New Member

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    I have kids. End of story.
     
  11. rubygirl

    rubygirl New Member

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    But abuse is a relative term. People nowadays think a swat on a child's bum is abuse. That raising your voice is abuse. That looking at a person (or dog because let's face it, their value is the same/sarcasm) sideways is abuse.
    He did nothing abusive. If that was another dog that had approached the food dish and the dog reacted the way he did, the other dog would have taken him down.
     
  12. Greenmagick

    Greenmagick New Member

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    Do you not understand management and rehab? Do you not understand this dog was NOT in a natural state? It was a forced, artificial one set up to get the highest reaction.
     
  13. rubygirl

    rubygirl New Member

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    The dog wasn't in a corner until the end when it was finished attacking...
     
  14. sassafras

    sassafras mushinois

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    A normal dog would probably have backed off.
     
  15. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    But without kids you'd work with dogs and help them learn the right choices instead of pushing them over their threshold, asking them to bite, then dominating (what would that entail?) or killing them if they do?

    I'm sure glad my parents instilled commitment and patience and respect for my siblings and I. That fact extended beyond humans to animals.
     
  16. Doberluv

    Doberluv Active Member

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    Sorry....really bad analogy. Husbands ought to know the immorality of beating up a weaker woman, especially for possession of a remote control. Too much TV isn't good for you anyway. :p Humans have a higher power of reasoning than an animal. Puleeze....What do you think a bear would do if you try to take one of it's babies away? Or food? Or anything vital to it's species or individual survival? Would you expect it to say, "go ahead, you're the boss." ? You can replace "bear" with just about any animal, wild or domestic.
     
  17. rubygirl

    rubygirl New Member

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    You have heard my opinion. I don't know what else to say...? I'm not going to change it.
     
  18. rubygirl

    rubygirl New Member

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    Dogs know how much pressure to use with their mouths.
     
  19. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    Most awesomely inexperienced statement yet.

    For the win.
     
  20. Greenmagick

    Greenmagick New Member

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    This dog was also in her mind in a fight for her life
     

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